Topic: El Salvador has become the first country to make #Bitcoin legal tender! 🇸🇻 - page 53. (Read 38889 times)

El Salvador Bitcoin Mining's biggest facility is building a host that will use wind and solar power generation. The project is based in the West Division of Shanta Anna and is expected to generate renewable electricity with a total capacity of 241 MW with a processing power of 1.3EH/s to mine Bitcoin.

Details: https://forbescentroamerica.com/2023/06/12/como-es-el-proyecto-de-mineria-de-bitcoin-renovable-que-cambia-la-propuesta-de-bonos-de-nayib-bukele?s=09

El Salvador will surely succeed using Bitcoin mining. If this renewable energy is generated, everyone will love the use of this solar energy in El Salvador Nayib Bukele.

We cannot approach bitcoin adoption with the ways we've been so used to manipulating the fiat economy through the influence of the central authorities for their own benefits, that's why when you look into the situations that surrounds Nayib Bukele as a president and the bitcoin adoption he made with El-Savador, you will discover that his target was on the people for them to have a financial economy freedom in their daily lives while still under the leadership of the government and not that he has adopted the use of bitcoin as a legal tender in other to hypnotize the people under the government rule and control.

As far as I know, no, but is it bad that Bhutan is also interested in bitcoin and mining it? Possibly, geting closer to the technology and philosophy of bitcoin, Bhutan will also decide in the future to expand its capabilities, including the direct use of bitcoin in the country. If a country has not yet taken exactly the same steps as El Salvador, this does not mean that the steps they are taking towards the development of bitcoin are wrong.

Not that I am going to support the previous assertion that El Salvador will be the richest nation on Earth. That's simply speculation, but I want to ask. Did Bhutan make Bitcoin their legal tender, just like El Salvador did?

Did Bhutan buy more Bitcoins from the market as a future investment for the nation, just like El Salvador did?

El Salvador is not the only country that is investing in the development of bitcoin mining. Bhutan has been mining bitcoin for several years and recently partnered with Singapore-based Bitdeer Technologies Group to build a 600 megawatt mining farm. Moreover, such close interest of Bhutan in bitcoin became widely known only this year. I think that we can still learn a lot of interesting things about which countries do not yet advertise their active participation in investing in bitcoin and mining it. And here it is important to have time to be among the first in order to get the maximum possible. And the authorities of El Salvador understand this.

El Salvador has recognized Bitcoin as its first free transaction, which Nayib Bukele is ready to do everything for the people of his country. Using various technologies to examine the direction of Bitcoin development, El Salvador has hired the author of the Bitcoin Standard book to act as a consultant for how Bitcoin will evolve. And will launch a completely new app that will bring massive benefits to Bitcoin transactions and will work to verify people's progress. Each location in El Salvador will deploy a total of more than 200 machines. I can safely say that the idea that forced Nayib Bukele to take up Bitcoin transactions is completely logical.

I think the over reliance on the produce from the volcano volt energy and Bitcoin hubs for offseting the debt of El Salvador may make it hard for the project to produce to its maximum capacity since the space between 2023 and 2030= 7 years, this is something that we analysts need to make emphasis on in our discussion because with our experience with bitcoin we know that we can't predict the future of bitcoin or where it price will be, things change and actions can be modify to fit in current realities at that time and bitcoin mining from the volcano may not be able to make the profits that will pay off El Salvador debt by 2030.

Yes, I am a strong advocate for the volcano development, but fixing a time frame for when Bitcoin mining profits in El Salvador will be able to meet up with paying that debt.

Volcano Energy's mission is to make 🇸🇻 El Salvador the richest nation on earth. #Bitcoin is the new oil and El Salvador will be the Saudi Arabia of bitcoin.

https://twitter.com/BitcoinNewsCom/status/1667916449854152706?t=sUGRaMUV-fybVMCkSTZzNQ&s=19

NEW: 🇸🇻 #Bitcoin education in schools continues in El Salvador 👀🧐



https://twitter.com/BitcoinNewsCom/status/1667308089362780161?t=3Ga8dP78wnykOxKqJXtmcQ&s=19

Indeed El Salvador have become the hubs to bitcoin related business and the legal status of bitcoin in El Salvador have aided the ease of doing digital related businesses and international payment, indeed bitcoin will greatly impact positively I the economic situation of El Salvador and if the current pest of development continue after the tenure of the current president Nyib who is currently seeking reelection, it will go a long way to build a foreseeable foundation for the microeconomic growth in El Salvador and if the next bull market happens then it gains for El Salvador and it will help assist their debt settlement greatly.

Yes... some of the shitcoins might have validity, use cases and value... but don't let that get you distracted.

you will likely be best to learn about bitcoin first and figuring out bitcoin before getting distracted into mostly nonsense (even if there might be some value in some of that crap).. it is better to presume the crap to be crap rather than allowing it to use your time, energies, psychological and your financial capital..

At the same time, you are free to do what you like, yet if people are polluting mostly bitcoin threads with pumping shitcoins, then it is not really good for discussions or for even seriously attempting to focus the thread on bitcoin first. and then if the problem/issue is tackled from a bitcoin first perspective, then there might still be some room to incorporate some shitcoin discussion, but it does not tend to be a good practice to fail/refuse to maintain focus.


Bitcoin was already cool before El Salvador "gave bitcoin a nod"


It is a better practice to presume shitcoiners to be scammers rather than the other way around... but you can do whatever the fuck you want.. especially if you enjoy being distracted by mostly noise and nonsense.

It tends to be a better practice to try to focus on the signal rather than the noise, and engaging in such practices of focus will help you in a lot of areas in life, not only related to better understanding bitcoin... if you are even capable of such actual focus rather than merely suggesting/implying that you sufficiently/adequately understand bitcoin...when you likely do not.. otherwise you would not be arguing such nonsense and making such nonsensical points.


It does help if you realize that it is a shitcoin that facilitates other shitcoins and it is a mechanism that allows further building of shit upon it, with itself being quite shitty too..

I cannot necessarily cause you to change the way that you are understanding ethereum and how it has built various networking effects that it has built, and if you are not able to appreciate the various ways that bitcoin is superior to ethereum including some of the POS bullshit, then what good does it do to argue with you?  Just go take your shitcoin talk and promotion to some other place.. it is largely distracting... because it does not even apply to this thread in which El Salvador is largely attempting to focus on bitcoin first and to approach bitcoin as legal tender from that perspective..and if you are distracted into wanting to talk about how great you believe ethereum to be or ethereum related matters to be adding value then you seem to be in the wrong place  and you are just taking us away from what El Salvador has been doing and seems to want to continue to emphasize bitcoin and bitcoin related matters.

Sure ethereum could be described to be related to bitcoin because it sucks off the tit of bitcoin and engages in affinity scams (and franky made some good points in the post above about the vaporware aspects of ethereum too).. but why do we even need to battle about that scam smoke and mirrors house of cards of ethereum in this here thread..? It is not even on topic here.. and you can believe whatever the fuck you want regarding that coin and pump it in some other forum thread or even in some other place on the internet, no?  Why do you want to talk about it in this thread?


There are levels to which the term "crypto" is distracting.  On the mere basic level, it tends to include failure/refusal to specify what the fuck is being talked about.  If we are talking about bitcoin, then we should be able to talk about bitcoin, and if some other matters relate to bitcoin we should be able specify how they might or might not relate to bitcoin rather than employing some amorphous term that does not really have any meaning unless you at least try to put it into some kind of a context.

Again, I am not really sure why you believe that there is some kind of need to talk about the "crypto-sphere" in this thread, when El Salvador specifically is working on bitcoin first and bitcoin focused, and surely from time to  time there might be some questions regarding whether some of the things that El Salvador is doing is sufficiently pegged (or tied) into bitcoin, so the ways that various projects might come up in the context of El Salvador might have various shitcoin (or crypto-sphere) elements in them, and surely we likely realize that a lot of shitcoin projects went to El Salvador and/or are involved in El Salvador too.. so there might be some times in which El Salvador might need to clarify some of the matters, including the extent to which some of the shitcoins are working within the language or the spirit of their various legislative and structural establishments that are trying to focus on bitcoin first.

ok lets concentrate on ethereums worth
a. its ether creation(reward)cost is super low (calculated at under $40 to collectively mine an eth) yet is speculating an premiums of over $1700 meaning its not a store of value with such high speculation amount above base cost value

b. if ethereum really had its own "mold" and its own "corner" and its own "sector" and its own major community. then it would have its own price discovery, which if you concentrate on its worth you would(if it was independent sector) have its own market wiggles that look absolutely nothing like bitcoins market changes..

c. however 9% of the time ethereum doesnt have its own market price discovery. it just shadow traces bitcoins movements at a 1:14 ratio. because its actually bitcoins community that moves ethereums price 90% of the time. where its bitcoiners keeping ethereums speculation stuck at such a premium

d. yes ethereum community looks big in conversations about projects. but when you actually look at real economic activity. there is not much real world usage. its just hype of small project managers self broadcasting their own transactions back to themselves faking interest in their projects in the hope of getting some idiot victims to buy into their "contracted" tokens of worthless value

Intriguing how your assertion just lit a light bulb in my brain! True, you could say there's a chasm of difference separating Bitcoin from the motley crew of cryptos often derisively dubbed 'shitcoins'. Bitcoin has demonstrated its muscle, bounceback-ability and capacity for disruption. However, does it totally nullify the use-value of the other coin-kids on the block?

Sure, Bitcoin may be the cool kid now that El Salvador gave it a nod, but does that imply the entire crypto-crew is nothing but deadweights? Some of these so-called 'shitcoins' have gone through a metamorphosis, finding their own corner in the vast crypto world. Ethereum, with its smarty-pants contracts, is breaking molds left and right in numerous sectors. Are we so quick to ignore its worth?

Moreover, 'crypto' isn't just some buzzword millennials love to throw around. It's a power-packed term symbolizing the revolutionary ability of blockchain tech. So, shouldn't we emphasize the gap between Bitcoin and its counterparts, but also push for a thorough grasp of the richly varied crypto-sphere?

"Strike" CEO jack Mallers announced...

Jack Mallers Announcement at #Bitcoin2023

Jack announced new plans for @Strike, including expanding their reach to more than 65 countries while moving their headquarters to El Salvador.

Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/GbbRSsp4ocs

Source: The Bitcoin Conference

Nayib Bukele took all the steps for his country so that they can advance economically. At one time most of the people were against him for these steps but he made his steps successful without taking people's word. He officially recognized Bitcoin and adopted Bitcoin as the currency for his country. After he recognized Bitcoin, most of the people feel benefited in all the areas for which people are currently attracted to it. President Nayib Bukele EL Salvador established various things by Bitcoin and all the steps he has achieved success. Even those who opposed his work now support him because people have benefited the most from adopting Bitcoin as his country's currency.

It sounds like you are giving me an assignment.  I have only recently started to use lightning network myself, and I have not used Chivo wallet or any custodial wallets.. So I am not even sure that I know the extent to which the wallets used in El Salvador are supposedly problematic, as you are asserting them to be.. and you seem to be implying some kind of corruption that's beyond my understanding of how there is both the acceptance of BTC as legal tender and some abilities for transactions to be promoted using lightning network and those payments would be optionally done on the main chain or through lightning network... so yeah.. maybe you are just way smarter (and aware of facts than me... I am not necessarily opposed to considering the matter more.. to the extent that there might be some important facts that you are suggesting that I am missing)... but I am not necessarily just going to take representations like the ones that you are making.. even though you are telling me to research and giving me assignments.


I did not even know that bitcoin failed in el salvador.  It seems to me to still be pretty early days in terms of the announcement of El Salvador adopting bitcoin as legal tender merely being 2 years ago, and it's actually going live as legal tender did not start until September 7, 2021.  There seem to be good things still happening in El Salvador in regards to bitcoin, and Bukele still has very high approval rates, and whether that is due to Bitcoin or crime reduction or some other factors, I don't claim to have any knowledge on the ground that is greater than anyone else... or what I get incidentally, rather than specifically studying matters that forum member like you might want to assign to me in terms of your saying that my sources or reliance on the wrong people is not helping my knowledge, since you seem to believe that I am brained washed.. which just comes off as distracting and what trolls do.. rather than really trying to engage in any kind of meaningful discussion of this matter..

I don't follow anyone in particular.. and if people say dumb and crazy shit, then I might be triggered into looking into the matter.. perhaps?  no guarantees. 

I am not going to be dissuaded merely by your assessment that I supposedly don't know enough or that your claiming that you know how I get my information (which you seem to imply to know that I am relying on bad sources, and suggesting that you are a good source, when you have already shown yourself to tend to not be a very good source when it comes to some of your anti-segwit and anti-lightning network biases that you have spread in a lot of threads and now you are coming over to this thread to proclaim some of us might not know enough because you are smarter than the rest of us... and we need to do our homework in order to catch up to uie-pooie.


That does not even sound right.. even though you want to characterize the matter in that way..

Whatever.. you do you.


You think that El Salvadorians are being tricked into losing money?  None of them hold BTC self custody?  The same self-custody issues exist in a lot of places, and so sure, people are learning more and more about the need to keep their own private keys, so whatever you are saying in regards to custodial systems is a problem everywhere. not just in El Salvador.

Nonetheless, there is always going to be a certain level in which people (bitcoiners or otherwise) need to take some fucking responsibility in terms of not leaving their shit with third parties, and you are trying to suggest that El Salvadoreans are specifically being tricked into leaving their shit with third parties, and I just don't buy it.. even if there might be too many folks using custodial wallets. and they likely need to get their shit into self-custody.. so I don't disagree with the need for self-custody.. but I do disagree with your assertion that implies that they are being taken advantage of because some third-party custody wallets and services are being made available to them.


There are custodial and non-custodial services developing and growing at the same time, and yeah some of the matters are confusing in terms of the various current governmental attacks, too (that are mostly seeming to be coming out of the USA recently and maybe even some other developed countries.. the EU too).. ... but those governmental attacks do not seem to be happening in El Salvador.. even though you seem to be suggesting that the way that El Salvador has allowed LN exist (or to be promoted) is problematic for bitcoin adoption is taking place in El Salvador (and perhaps setting a bad precedent by facilitating LN).. and you have some weird ways of framing these matters.. as if LN and El Salvador were the problem or the place where battles in bitcoin are currently taking place... so yeah.. maybe you are suggesting that the battle against bitcoin in El Salvador is a more subtle one, and you just come off as a goof.. but yeah, I should look into the matter more in order to really understand the reality of what is happening, when you are not even making very good arguments in the first place.. but still I need to research the matter, no?


From my understanding LN is ongoingly being developed and expanded.. and improved upon.. therefore, it is not dead.


Well good luck highlighting the various issues.   When are you going to start with such highlights that you believe need to be carried out?

@jayjuangee

funny part is i am saying that bitcoin should stick to what it did best.. you seem to be siding with the cult that want bitcoin to go into a different direction of making people not use the bitcoin network and instead be pushed over to other networks.. where said other networks have been proven by the el salvadorians to not be fit for purpose

im not promoting something different. im for fixing bitcoin and evolving bitcoin.. not some other network.

seems you are stuck to much in being spoonfed into the social diatribe of a certain few idiots that love altnets,  rather than actually look at the real stuff thats been happening and the real stuff i have mentioned people should really look into.

but hey.. seems you want to not mention that the screw ups were LN related by you diverting the attention away by not mentioning LNs involvement via your "variety of ways" and your "whatever system that El Salvador put into place"

might be worth you actually reading what actually occurred and what networks were actually involved and start to have the confidence to actually mention the other networks by name to actually highlight their flaws and real world limitations and failures. instead of being soo excited to keep promoting LN as a solution..

LN gave bitcoin a bad name to el salvadorians. even when el salvadorians troubles were nothing to do with the bitcoin network at all.. nor were the el salvadorians even making payments on the bitcoin network.. the LN experiment failed el salvador but it seems the LN lemmings want to push a narrative that bitcoin failed el salvador..
shameful misrepresentation yet again from the LN cult

yep they snake oil sold their LN scheme to EL salvador as "bitcoin" (facepalm)
and when it went wrong they then pretended the LN experiment didnt happen and that it was the bitcoin network that failed el salvador.. (facepalm)

..
what makes it worse is the CEO of strike is trying to do it once again. but this time coming with bitfinex as a partner to be a custodian/(hub factory) for users LN inbound balance
again falsely promoting it as "bitcoin".. even though the el salvadorians yet again wont own any private keys to any real bitcoin network UTXO funds

..
ofcourse there will be a future of subnetworks for "circular economy" of closed systems to keep value within a smaller niche community.
but if people ignore the fact that LN is not fit for purpose, many years will be wasted promoting broken crap and nothing real actually changes for the actual bitcoin network to grow. or for better subnetwork options to come about

its like flogging a dead horse repeatedly. LN has had 6 years of chances to fix their screw ups and instead they just keep repeating their screw ups.. so its time we highlight their screwups especially ones that occur on a national scale of a country

It seems to me that there are levels of concern that come when referring to bitcoin within the concept of crypto or cryptocurrencies, and even if none of us can really figure out what the term crypto means, there should be some kind of an obligation of the person who chooses to use such word to be clear about what is the references.

So the first level is merely just clarifying what is meant, and if someone is trying to suggest that there is some kind of an amorphous idea out there that involves crypto and bitcoin happens to be part of that, then even if they might be technically accurate, many times they are inaccurate an misleading by failing and refusing to clarify what they mean exactly - or alternatively if they are trying to suggest that various shitcoins are kind of like bitcoin, then that is also misleading... .

..so when it comes down to El Salvador, we know that they emphasize bitcoin and not crypto and not shitcoins, but to some degree, there likely needs to be some level of tolerance to shitcoins and other various products that might overlap with shitcoins, crypto and even sometimes it might not even be clear exactly how much any other party, person, business or other government is wrapped up into or confused by shitcoins, and so part of the process of promoting bitcoin and expanding bitcoin is going to have various overlaps with shitcoins that are affinity scamming bitcoin - .. so frequently it is not going to be clear where to draw the line exactly, even if some cases of promoting shitcoins or naysaying upon bitcoin are more clear than others and there needs to be some forced clarifications when some folks are either sloppy in their use of language, even if they might not be purposefully trying to promote shitcoins or to naysay on bitcoin and even sometimes there might be some useful products or ideas that they might have that might not be exactly bitcoin related, but in the end, likely bitcoin is going to end up touching upon all areas of life, even areas in which people are scamming and involving themselves into using bitcoin, too.


You sound a bit distracted Franky.

Yes.. sure there are some aspects of bitcoin that are not exactly straight-forward and are being developed - including various second layers and companies that are working on bitcoin also various players who might sometimes have various personalities that we may or may not like.

Maybe El Salvador should hire you as one of their advisors.. but for some reason I doubt that they would do it, since you seem to be going down a road in which you are promoting some vision of bitcoin that is not bitcoin, either... and it is not even clear what you are promoting - since you should already realize that segwit is one of the solutions in which it is easier to have various second layers that are settled on the bitcoin chain later down the road, even if there are problems along the way.. and if you really believe that some variation of bitcoin would really be able to expand in its adoption by ONLY having on chain transactions, then it seems that you are really handicapping the role of bitcoin..

I am not even going to suggest that I know how to resolve the various conflicts and the balancing of choices that likely need to be made when expanding bitcoin's usage whether some of that usage is going to happen somewhat onchain, or through various second or third layers and sometimes involving some levels of custodianship in terms of both making sure that there is a decent amount of pegging of the value (fractional reserve risks) while at the same time allowing for some expanding usage of bitcoin, even if some of those coins may well be being held on third parties and tokens are being exchanged that might not always be completely backed up by bitcoin.. so yes.. there seems to be some tensions in the various ways that people put bitcoin into practice, even if they may well be trying to ensure that normies are able to take self custody and that the bitcoin's that third parties claim to have are actually there.. and I doubt that we can completely get rid of some of the fractional reserve matters - even if there might be aspirations towards getting into circular economies - since we likely realize that people/institutions with excess wealth also like to put their money to work and sometimes might well want to earn money on the bitcoin that they hold... which can end up devolving into problems in which the coins are not there (or the same coins had been lent out twice - or even 100 times).


Of course, when free money is given out, there are a variety of ways in which there can be screw ups, and you would imagine that there are goals for the government to want to be able to verify that ONLY eligible people are getting the $30 and that they are also not getting it more than once, and yeah, it seems that whatever system that El Salvador put into place for their $30 promotion (to try to get El Salvadoreans to try out the Chivo wallet) did not end up working out very well.

I have to agree with you in some part that the El Salvadorian's experience with the Chivo wallet was worse than the worst since the $30 airdrop from the government never actually get fully to the citizens due to network congestion and unavailability during that period and beyond, and even as the time goes on the President discovered that he had a bad shot at the Chivo wallet and quickly suit for better alternative and solution instead of adopting bitcoin network in full but then this is government and there control tendency.

Nothing has failed in the El Salvador Bitcoin experiments and the only thing that has failed is the chivo wallet which make led to huge losses on the side of the government since the airdrop process was manipulated giving citizens a bitter test of the Bitcoin experience by choosing the wrong network.

But what should you do other than implementing of lighting network in order to move the whole country on bitcoin ecosystem? Traditional bitcoin transactions aren't fast, mempool gets clogged very often and sometimes fees are getting tremendously high. I don't think anyone will find it normal to pay $10 in fees for $5 taxi ride. In taxi, supermarkets and stores you need instant payments, LN gives that possibility.
What El Salvador wants and says is easier said than done, it's not that simple to massively accept bitcoin payments in real life.