Electrum Brain Wallet ? | Bitcointalksearch.org

pooya87

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Quote from: stsfi on April 06, 2019, 03:32:44 AM

Quote from: HCP on April 05, 2019, 07:16:12 AM

Quote from: stsfi on April 04, 2019, 02:01:06 PM

hardware wallet has seeds too, also i don't want someone to put a knife on my neck and ask me to open my hardware wallet !!

That's why hardware wallets allow the use of "Plausible Deniability" and allow you to add a "passphrase" to your 12/24 words... You can create a "dummy" wallet with some spare change using the words... and your REAL wallet is hidden by the passphrase. If someone puts a knife to your neck, give them the seed, they get spare change only Wink

Refer:
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005214529-Advanced-passphrase-security
https://blog.trezor.io/passphrase-the-ultimate-protection-for-your-accounts-3a311990925b

yes yes this is exactly what i wanted Cheesy

but i think better way is to have two wallet one electrum for daily use and one brain for storage for long term

that still has nothing to do with brain wallets. you are still getting the same seed with enough entropy and only extending it with a password. and in my opinion it is still a strange concept because if someone targets you and puts a knife to your neck they already know how much bitcoin you own, they won't believe you if you give them an empty wallet or a wallet with small amount in it. they will beat the password out of you too!

stsfi

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Quote from: HCP on April 05, 2019, 07:16:12 AM

Quote from: stsfi on April 04, 2019, 02:01:06 PM

hardware wallet has seeds too, also i don't want someone to put a knife on my neck and ask me to open my hardware wallet !!

That's why hardware wallets allow the use of "Plausible Deniability" and allow you to add a "passphrase" to your 12/24 words... You can create a "dummy" wallet with some spare change using the words... and your REAL wallet is hidden by the passphrase. If someone puts a knife to your neck, give them the seed, they get spare change only Wink

Refer:
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005214529-Advanced-passphrase-security
https://blog.trezor.io/passphrase-the-ultimate-protection-for-your-accounts-3a311990925b

yes yes this is exactly what i wanted Cheesy

but i think better way is to have two wallet one electrum for daily use and one brain for storage for long term

HCP

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Quote from: stsfi on April 04, 2019, 02:01:06 PM

hardware wallet has seeds too, also i don't want someone to put a knife on my neck and ask me to open my hardware wallet !!

That's why hardware wallets allow the use of "Plausible Deniability" and allow you to add a "passphrase" to your 12/24 words... You can create a "dummy" wallet with some spare change using the words... and your REAL wallet is hidden by the passphrase. If someone puts a knife to your neck, give them the seed, they get spare change only Wink

Refer:
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005214529-Advanced-passphrase-security
https://blog.trezor.io/passphrase-the-ultimate-protection-for-your-accounts-3a311990925b

stsfi

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Quote from: BitMaxz on April 03, 2019, 04:49:01 PM

I can memorize only 5 words but memorizing more than that it can possible but you can't memorize them for a longer time and I am sure the brain of a human will be weak while getting older. So not recommended to memorize 12/24 words seed phrase and use them when you need it.

For me, if you are looking for highly secured wallet go for hardware wallet instead or make your own offline cold storage much better and safe.

hardware wallet has seeds too, also i don't want someone to put a knife on my neck and ask me to open my hardware wallet !!

pooya87

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: pooya87 on April 02, 2019, 11:21:57 PM

the concept is the same, you have a string that you use as entropy to feed into a hashing function that outputs a 256 bit result (like SHA256, HMACSHA256, KBDF2 with 32 byte result,...) and then use the result as your private key.
the difference is that in brainwallet you use a very insecure entropy because it was chosen by hand and in HD wallets you use a very strong entropy since it was chosen with a strong RNG.

FYI, you should use HMAC-SHA512 according to https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/blob/master/electrum/mnemonic.py#L134

i was generally speaking and for both brainwallets and HD wallets. you can for example give your "password" to a HMACSHA256 function with a random key (which all the implementations of it have the option to do so) or a key that you generate based on timestamp,... and then get a 256 bit result which you use as your private key.
but of course HMACSHA512 is used for HD keys because you want both a key and the chain code each 256 bit.

BitMaxz

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I can memorize only 5 words but memorizing more than that it can possible but you can't memorize them for a longer time and I am sure the brain of a human will be weak while getting older. So not recommended to memorize 12/24 words seed phrase and use them when you need it.

For me, if you are looking for highly secured wallet go for hardware wallet instead or make your own offline cold storage much better and safe.

pooya87

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Quote from: stsfi on April 02, 2019, 09:24:47 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

When you make new HD wallet, Electrum automatically do it and you can't interfere/modify generation process.

If you really need to generate deterministic seed from password/string that you can remember, you should use brain wallet.

yes but brainwallet is single address, easy to trace

the concept is the same, you have a string that you use as entropy to feed into a hashing function that outputs a 256 bit result (like SHA256, HMACSHA256, KBDF2 with 32 byte result,...) and then use the result as your private key.
the difference is that in brainwallet you use a very insecure entropy because it was chosen by hand and in HD wallets you use a very strong entropy since it was chosen with a strong RNG.

stsfi

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Quote from: ?? on ??

When you make new HD wallet, Electrum automatically do it and you can't interfere/modify generation process.

If you really need to generate deterministic seed from password/string that you can remember, you should use brain wallet.

yes but brainwallet is single address, easy to trace

stsfi

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Quote from: Artemis3 on March 30, 2019, 09:43:54 AM

The password is only meant to prevent unauthorized use from a hot wallet, or a wallet stored in a plugged device. Its actually better to lose that password as you can always recover your wallet with the seed words anyway. The seed words are far more important than the password, but you should always use a good password to prevent hot wallets from being misused, just remember its OK to lose that password as long as you keep your seed words safe. The mobile version uses a PIN instead but i'm unsure of the safety of that, i guess its just to prevent opportunity thieves from physically manipulating your own phone rather than preventing outsiders from the net from obtaining your wallet. But then you should not keep large sums in a mobile wallet anyway...

Quote from: stsfi on March 29, 2019, 11:34:06 AM

What i am Not Asking !
1> how to secure my wallet
2> what is a seed
3> how seed works
4> where should i store my seed

Artemis3

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The password is only meant to prevent unauthorized use from a hot wallet, or a wallet stored in a plugged device. Its actually better to lose that password as you can always recover your wallet with the seed words anyway. The seed words are far more important than the password, but you should always use a good password to prevent hot wallets from being misused, just remember its OK to lose that password as long as you keep your seed words safe. The mobile version uses a PIN instead but i'm unsure of the safety of that, i guess its just to prevent opportunity thieves from physically manipulating your own phone rather than preventing outsiders from the net from obtaining your wallet. But then you should not keep large sums in a mobile wallet anyway...

Abdussamad

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There is no way currently to generate an electrum seed from a password. It's not safe to do so it's not supported by the software.

You can extend the auto-generated seed with your own words/characters. Or set a password on the wallet file and rely on that file backup only (file > save copy).

HCP

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Quote from: stsfi on March 30, 2019, 03:42:22 AM

hey, i was asking how do you generate deterministic seeds

You open Electrum, you select "File -> New/Restore -> [insert wallet name] -> Standard wallet -> Create a new seed"... Electrum will generate a nice shiny new random deterministic seed mnemonic (aka the "12 words") for you...

Otherwise, if you're asking how to go about creating a seed... well, simply put a seed is just a REALLY large number... so you need a way to randomly generate a REALLY large number... common methods are using dice or coin flips etc...

Once you have that seed, you'd then need to follow the Electrum process for converting that seed into a seed mnemonic... ie. the "12 words"... it's similar to the way BIP39 works when converting from REALLY large number to "words", but has some "added extras" like a "seed version" included which BIP39 does not.

Again... seed = really large number... seed mnemonic = "12 words"

stsfi

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Quote from: djhomeschool on March 30, 2019, 02:41:05 AM

Quote from: stsfi on March 30, 2019, 02:33:05 AM

i ask how do i generate 12 word seed from a password that i can remembered

The 12 word seed and password are 2 different things on Eelectrum, you can NOT generate a 12 word seed from a password.
The password is to open the wallet, generated from your 12 seed, and to send out transactions.
If you lost your wallet file and your 12 word seed you can NOT create your wallet again and you lost your bitcoins, does not matter if you have the password or not.

hey, i was asking how do you generate deterministic seeds

djhomeschool

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Quote from: stsfi on March 30, 2019, 02:33:05 AM

i ask how do i generate 12 word seed from a password that i can remembered

The 12 word seed and password are 2 different things on Eelectrum, you can NOT generate a 12 word seed from a password.
The password is to open the wallet, generated from your 12 seed, and to send out transactions.
If you lost your wallet file and your 12 word seed you can NOT create your wallet again and you lost your bitcoins, does not matter if you have the password or not.

stsfi

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i ask how do i generate 12 word seed from a password that i can remembered

suzanne5223

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Quote from: Artemis3 on March 29, 2019, 01:02:52 PM

Write them by hand into a piece of paper, make sure to make another copy by hand, store them in two physically separate but secure places.
If place A burns down, there is your backup in place B. The words can be cleverly disguised with a longer list, be creative but don't forget how to undo the trick later lol.

Memory alone? Too dangerous.

In addition, writing in a paper, have it copy in private drive and memorizing are the things to do because nothing is ever safe. Besides, a situations may occur whereby ones need to destroy those writing in paper/flash drive or whereby it get burn through fire outbreak.

xWolfx

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Quote from: Artemis3 on March 29, 2019, 01:02:52 PM

Write them by hand into a piece of paper, make sure to make another copy by hand, store them in two physically separate but secure places.
If place A burns down, there is your backup in place B. The words can be cleverly disguised with a longer list, be creative but don't forget how to undo the trick later lol.

Memory alone? Too dangerous.

Yeah secure means also that unauthorized personnel can't have access to it. Even if they are people you trust, the question is if you can trust them with the seed.

Never rely only on your memory because it will betray you unless it is a really special memory. I don't have one of those sadly just like a lot of people and for that reason we need to take especial measurements to store information for the future.

People change and when that happens and you think different. You want to have a backup.

posi

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Quote from: dothebeats on March 29, 2019, 12:08:45 PM

Learn your seed by heart or store it somewhere safe, certainly not on places where people can retrieve it easily and take your funds. As reda said, 12-word mnemonic on electrum only appears when you create a new wallet, so it's highly important that you already save it the first time you see it.

One thing I do is list the 12 words in different pieces of paper and just place some kind of mark for their ordering. It worked for me the last time I deleted my wallet accidentally and helped me recover quite a handful of sum that may have been lost forever.

Brain wallet is something that have to do with generate a seed phrase and then memorize it not storing it somewhere safe has you implies with your respond. However, the way to do that is either using some words which ones can easily remember or use bitcoin wallet software (bitaddress)to generate a seed phrase and use memory techniques to it by heart.

Artemis3

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Write them by hand into a piece of paper, make sure to make another copy by hand, store them in two physically separate but secure places.
If place A burns down, there is your backup in place B. The words can be cleverly disguised with a longer list, be creative but don't forget how to undo the trick later lol.

Memory alone? Too dangerous.

leonair

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I think the best way to store your brain wallet seed is to memorize it, as from the word itself it must be in your brain so you must be held it at your head. Telling your seeds to your most trusted person and let him/her memorize it for you, it will help in case you acquire an Alzheimer's disease in the future.

Storing it to a physical thing is not recommended but if you still insist then it's up to you.

Topic: Electrum Brain Wallet ? (Read 358 times)