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Topic: Eligius: 0% Fee BTC, 105% PPS NMC, No registration, CPPSRB - page 140. (Read 1061417 times)

legendary
Activity: 1223
Merit: 1006
the attacker does not gain any direct benefit by performing the attack

Hi guys,

It is NOT true that the attacker cannot benefit from such an attack!

In our paper published 6 months ago we explain how to make block withholding attacks PROFITABLE.
It is very very simple and gains can be quite substantial in practice, see:
http://arxiv.org/abs/1402.1718




Well, the first assumption under the block withholding section of that paper is already wrong.

Quote
We assume that all miners mine in pools, small and large. Miners in one pool mine with the public key of the pool manager which later re-distributes the gains.

Both Eligius and P2Pool do not use this method.

Quote
We assume that the pool managers are perfectly neutral and do not try to detect or prevent any unusual behavior.

Also untrue, at least in the case of Eligius, as made obvious previously.

While I'm just going to stop there, since some of your initial assumptions are just wrong, I must assume the balance of the section is equally so.  Skimming it looks like you assume the withholding miner has some 20% of the network hash rate... then go on to say they can have greater returns by withholding than legitimate miners somehow.  Magic I guess.
newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 0
the attacker does not gain any direct benefit by performing the attack

Hi guys,

It is NOT true that the attacker cannot benefit from such an attack!

In our paper published 6 months ago we explain how to make block withholding attacks PROFITABLE.
It is very very simple and gains can be quite substantial in practice, see:
http://arxiv.org/abs/1402.1718


legendary
Activity: 1223
Merit: 1006
Did forget to mention that yes, stats are behind and catching up from the time I started the database migration.  Looks like it will only be about a couple more hours.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
in the end i was just waiting too long for my payouts  Undecided
legendary
Activity: 1223
Merit: 1006
Greetings Eligius Miners,

So, been working on some backend updates for Eligius.  Made some progress.

The web server and stats and the like are all using a standalone dedicated database server for the stats.  This should improve stats performance and eliminate some of the nonsense that happens with them for now.

Also working on getting the pool servers a little more balanced now that I have some longer term performance data on the current machines.  Should help with some of the connectivity issues some people have reported.



member
Activity: 79
Merit: 10
What's the deal with the payout queue recently?  It's usually at most 3-4 days to get to the top (which conviently is about how long it takes my 2 S1s to mine my 40 TBC minimum.)  Now I've hit my minimum and it's been over 4 days since my last payout and I'm still 14 blocks down on the queue  Shocked

It worries me a little bit because it seems the pool is increasing its "debt" when logically that shouldn't be.  The BTC in the payout queue should have all been earned and are now owed to the miners.  We're not taking about shelved shares here, these are BTC that have already been mined.

Say the pool shuts down tomorrow (not saying it will but bear with me.)  What happens to all the miners who have a balance on their account?  Obviously new blocks won't be mined so we can't be paid out the traditional way.  Do you have enough BTC in cold storage to pay everyone off?  Right now there's a staggering 571.77 BTC in the payout queue and that's not even counting the miners who haven't hit their minimum.  Furthermore, how does the cold storage wallet get paid?  Do you send off a percentage of each new block to it?  Or is it only credited when the payout system goes into "fallback" mode?

This just confuses me because the point of the CPPSRB system is that there will never be more BTC in shares credited than what the pool actually mines.  Yet it seems the "debt" in the payout queue continues to grow and we're at the mercy of the miners tomorrow to pay off what we mined yesterday.

Eligius and most "like" pools are all in the same boat.
Most miners have had a delay over the last few days - mine for a start took 5 days or so - when it should have taken 2-3.

It's all down to that four letter word...

Suck ......Muck......Duck.....Buck.....%uck ---**nope** --- its LUCK

On the bright side, all this bad luck is having a possitive effect on the next difficulty increase due in 6-7 days
Read the posts on page 140 of this thread and follow the links ... may well have a DROP this time ... or a very small increase.

Fingers crossed.

*Edited page number


Unless I'm missing something, I don't see what the luck in finding blocks has to do with the size of the payout queue.  Worse luck means fewer payouts but it also means less BTC credited so that should balance out.

I had a feeling you were going to come back and say that Cheesy

I know it is effected by LUCK, because it screws with the payout queue.
There is info about it in previous posts.

Something along the lines of people jumping in front of you when their older due payout reaches a max
time frame --

best go read the earlier posts,  I am not the best person to explain it tbh Sad

I wonder if the work WK is doing to the servers  over the last few days has anything to do with it also ?
I know as I type there is 2 block found not on stats list yet ( I know there is a notice on stats  not up to date atm )

***518
***523


legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1001
I agree, I think the payout queue is larger and longer than it should be.

M
newbie
Activity: 52
Merit: 0
What's the deal with the payout queue recently?  It's usually at most 3-4 days to get to the top (which conviently is about how long it takes my 2 S1s to mine my 40 TBC minimum.)  Now I've hit my minimum and it's been over 4 days since my last payout and I'm still 14 blocks down on the queue  Shocked

It worries me a little bit because it seems the pool is increasing its "debt" when logically that shouldn't be.  The BTC in the payout queue should have all been earned and are now owed to the miners.  We're not taking about shelved shares here, these are BTC that have already been mined.

Say the pool shuts down tomorrow (not saying it will but bear with me.)  What happens to all the miners who have a balance on their account?  Obviously new blocks won't be mined so we can't be paid out the traditional way.  Do you have enough BTC in cold storage to pay everyone off?  Right now there's a staggering 571.77 BTC in the payout queue and that's not even counting the miners who haven't hit their minimum.  Furthermore, how does the cold storage wallet get paid?  Do you send off a percentage of each new block to it?  Or is it only credited when the payout system goes into "fallback" mode?

This just confuses me because the point of the CPPSRB system is that there will never be more BTC in shares credited than what the pool actually mines.  Yet it seems the "debt" in the payout queue continues to grow and we're at the mercy of the miners tomorrow to pay off what we mined yesterday.

Eligius and most "like" pools are all in the same boat.
Most miners have had a delay over the last few days - mine for a start took 5 days or so - when it should have taken 2-3.

It's all down to that four letter word...

Suck ......Muck......Duck.....Buck.....%uck ---**nope** --- its LUCK

On the bright side, all this bad luck is having a possitive effect on the next difficulty increase due in 6-7 days
Read the posts on page 140 of this thread and follow the links ... may well have a DROP this time ... or a very small increase.

Fingers crossed.

*Edited page number


Unless I'm missing something, I don't see what the luck in finding blocks has to do with the size of the payout queue.  Worse luck means fewer payouts but it also means less BTC credited so that should balance out.
member
Activity: 79
Merit: 10
What's the deal with the payout queue recently?  It's usually at most 3-4 days to get to the top (which conviently is about how long it takes my 2 S1s to mine my 40 TBC minimum.)  Now I've hit my minimum and it's been over 4 days since my last payout and I'm still 14 blocks down on the queue  Shocked

It worries me a little bit because it seems the pool is increasing its "debt" when logically that shouldn't be.  The BTC in the payout queue should have all been earned and are now owed to the miners.  We're not taking about shelved shares here, these are BTC that have already been mined.

Say the pool shuts down tomorrow (not saying it will but bear with me.)  What happens to all the miners who have a balance on their account?  Obviously new blocks won't be mined so we can't be paid out the traditional way.  Do you have enough BTC in cold storage to pay everyone off?  Right now there's a staggering 571.77 BTC in the payout queue and that's not even counting the miners who haven't hit their minimum.  Furthermore, how does the cold storage wallet get paid?  Do you send off a percentage of each new block to it?  Or is it only credited when the payout system goes into "fallback" mode?

This just confuses me because the point of the CPPSRB system is that there will never be more BTC in shares credited than what the pool actually mines.  Yet it seems the "debt" in the payout queue continues to grow and we're at the mercy of the miners tomorrow to pay off what we mined yesterday.

Eligius and most "like" pools are all in the same boat.
Most miners have had a delay over the last few days - mine for a start took 5 days or so - when it should have taken 2-3.

It's all down to that four letter word...

Suck ......Muck......Duck.....Buck.....%uck ---**nope** --- its LUCK

On the bright side, all this bad luck is having a possitive effect on the next difficulty increase due in 6-7 days
Read the posts on page 140 of this thread and follow the links ... may well have a DROP this time ... or a very small increase.

Fingers crossed.

*Edited page number
newbie
Activity: 52
Merit: 0
What's the deal with the payout queue recently?  It's usually at most 3-4 days to get to the top (which conviently is about how long it takes my 2 S1s to mine my 40 TBC minimum.)  Now I've hit my minimum and it's been over 4 days since my last payout and I'm still 14 blocks down on the queue  Shocked

It worries me a little bit because it seems the pool is increasing its "debt" when logically that shouldn't be.  The BTC in the payout queue should have all been earned and are now owed to the miners.  We're not taking about shelved shares here, these are BTC that have already been mined.

Say the pool shuts down tomorrow (not saying it will but bear with me.)  What happens to all the miners who have a balance on their account?  Obviously new blocks won't be mined so we can't be paid out the traditional way.  Do you have enough BTC in cold storage to pay everyone off?  Right now there's a staggering 571.77 BTC in the payout queue and that's not even counting the miners who haven't hit their minimum.  Furthermore, how does the cold storage wallet get paid?  Do you send off a percentage of each new block to it?  Or is it only credited when the payout system goes into "fallback" mode?

This just confuses me because the point of the CPPSRB system is that there will never be more BTC in shares credited than what the pool actually mines.  Yet it seems the "debt" in the payout queue continues to grow and we're at the mercy of the miners tomorrow to pay off what we mined yesterday.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1001
Hi Folks,

Was hoping for a thought or two on this....

I hooked up a new s2 and tuned it to Eligius yesterday.  So far only .021 BTC has been mined and thats in twenty-four hours.  Additionally, the "Shares Rewarded" percentage says 69.36%. 

I have a bunch of s1's mining just fine as a separate entry in Eligius and their "Shares Rewarded" percentage is: 98.87%

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks.



Shares rewards are based on time mining and luck.  If you started during a down swing, then your shares rewarded are going to be low.  It'll catch up when luck swings positive again.

According to my math, 1TH/s should earn about 0.0311479 BTC a day, on average.  Some days will be higher, some will be lower.  You seem to have started on the low side of luck.

M

legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 1220
Update, gone from blank page to 500 Internal Server Error on the web site.

Miners still connected and hashing
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 1220
This is the first time I've not been able to get to the web site.

Happens every now and then.
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
This is the first time I've not been able to get to the web site.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 504
Dream become broken often
Hi Folks,

Was hoping for a thought or two on this....

I hooked up a new s2 and tuned it to Eligius yesterday.  So far only .021 BTC has been mined and thats in twenty-four hours.  Additionally, the "Shares Rewarded" percentage says 69.36%. 

I have a bunch of s1's mining just fine as a separate entry in Eligius and their "Shares Rewarded" percentage is: 98.87%

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks.





addy of the new s2's? takes alittle bit to reach 98%
sr. member
Activity: 316
Merit: 250
Hi Folks,

Was hoping for a thought or two on this....

I hooked up a new s2 and tuned it to Eligius yesterday.  So far only .021 BTC has been mined and thats in twenty-four hours.  Additionally, the "Shares Rewarded" percentage says 69.36%. 

I have a bunch of s1's mining just fine as a separate entry in Eligius and their "Shares Rewarded" percentage is: 98.87%

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks.



sr. member
Activity: 543
Merit: 250
Orjinal üyelik ToRiKaN banlanalı asır ol
Yeah, every now and then I decide to try and different pool and I always find myself coming back to Eligius (or BTC Guild truth be told).  In the end though I definitely prefer Eligius, I like getting paid from a generation transaction, but don't like the variance on P2Pool, and no fees are a great bonus too.  Not to mention the pure amount of work Wizkid puts in without asking for a fee is amazing.  Thank you wizkid for running a great pool, and all of the hard work you do to keep it running.

yep i do the same...but i never leave for very long..hr or two...in the end all payouts are gona be the same no matter what pool ya choose...i love less variance so i'll stick around here for a long time....rather have steady daily payout then play the luck game n hope it all avg. out

For me it's usually more like a couple days, but yeah the variance on p2pool is horrible.  If they had the hashrate to find a block at least daily, I might consider them, but aside from that, probably better to stick to a pool like eligius which has the hashrate, and pays from a generation transaction.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 504
Dream become broken often
Yeah, every now and then I decide to try and different pool and I always find myself coming back to Eligius (or BTC Guild truth be told).  In the end though I definitely prefer Eligius, I like getting paid from a generation transaction, but don't like the variance on P2Pool, and no fees are a great bonus too.  Not to mention the pure amount of work Wizkid puts in without asking for a fee is amazing.  Thank you wizkid for running a great pool, and all of the hard work you do to keep it running.

yep i do the same...but i never leave for very long..hr or two...in the end all payouts are gona be the same no matter what pool ya choose...i love less variance so i'll stick around here for a long time....rather have steady daily payout then play the luck game n hope it all avg. out
legendary
Activity: 2338
Merit: 1124
Lol, I was wondering when we decided that they were called "servers" and not "miners". I didn't get the memo.  Smiley

I have pondered that too Cheesy

Reminds me of the phone conversation with the UPS rep at East Midlands once when
2 of my S1's were stuck in customs - needless to say - she hadn't a clue what I was on about
and finally went for computer equipment.

Oh  and at same time it was hard explaining what they were worth and what I had paid - in Bitcoin -- I managed to fob her off by explaining I had no control ( little lie ) over the price and she should
refer to the ticket on the boxes - as that is a declaration by the seller and nothing to do with the buyer
something along the lines of "Reasonable amount declared for the contents".


It worked and they were released from customs.

Hope the next imports get through without the same palaver.  !!!

Hehe, soundd familiar. A company in China declared my miners as "Gaming computer" and decreased the value to 700 US$.... The guy at customs looked at me and asked: "You spend THIS much money for gaming? You must be a freak..."

:-)
member
Activity: 79
Merit: 10
Lol, I was wondering when we decided that they were called "servers" and not "miners". I didn't get the memo.  Smiley

I have pondered that too Cheesy

Reminds me of the phone conversation with the UPS rep at East Midlands once when
2 of my S1's were stuck in customs - needless to say - she hadn't a clue what I was on about
and finally went for computer equipment.

Oh  and at same time it was hard explaining what they were worth and what I had paid - in Bitcoin -- I managed to fob her off by explaining I had no control ( little lie ) over the price and she should
refer to the ticket on the boxes - as that is a declaration by the seller and nothing to do with the buyer
something along the lines of "Reasonable amount declared for the contents".


It worked and they were released from customs.

Hope the next imports get through without the same palaver.  !!!
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