Topic: Eligius pool is back under the new name Ocean - page 3. (Read 3050 times)

If he's really entitled to his opinion, he should censor transactions after they have been included in a block. You censor them when unconfirmed, but accept them when they're mined? What kind of ethics is this?

Ego. He thinks (hopes) people will follow his lead.
He has censored transactions / addresses before: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ityg2/warning_bitcoin_address_blacklists_have_been/
He has attacked other coins before: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/o6qwx/lukejr_attacks_and_kills_coiledcoin_altcurrency/

And yet people still mine at his pool.

-Dave

There is no such sake, that's the thing. It's not a "I don't mine it, it doesn't get into the chain". If you don't mine a transaction, somebody else will. That's how censorship-resistance is ensured. Ocean ignoring a transaction produces the equivalent outcome of mining it and giving the transaction fee to someone else.

I still don't understand how a Bitcoin developer is incapable of grasping this simple concept.

So you want to ignore the obvious facts that exist on the longest blockchain the world has ever known and assume some things that only exist in your imagination? how does that work? Ocean pool leaves a ton of money on the table, look at this block https://mempool.space/block/00000000000000000002509da9476db6f578ae8d2bd81d83b992ea37b68db8d1

it has a terrible health score, the pool included some 50+ sat/vByte transactions and left some 140+ sat transactions, anyone who thinks they are somehow magically making more profit mining on Ocean is either clueless or plain stupid, you may argue that they are doing this for the sake of BTC because they think inscription are bad, but you can't just claim they are somehow making a good profit by not mining high paying transactions.

Large pools that found most of the halving blocks have mined more BTC in a single day than they would in weeks, you know how terrible Ocean's rewards would seem if they found a block around the halving when inscriptions were paying 35-40BTC/block? just imagine that you have a 100ph of the 1000ph Ocean has and on that day you received your 0.325BTC when you could have made 4BTC on that same day had your pool mined those transactions.! Ocean Pool was very lucky they didn't mine any of those blocks.

I wouldn't go as far as to call miners in Ocean clueless. There's plenty of miners there but the pool's hashrate to a large extent comes from miners that have to be managing pretty large operations. At this scale it's probably a very conscious choice. I went into the pool's dashboard to look at what part of the hashrate comes from large miners, and the top 5 make up 470 Ph/s. The Ocean dashboard is pretty transparent at letting anyone monitor this: https://ocean.xyz/dashboard

Probably the pool's total hashrate will rise soon also because it currently sits at around 660 Ph/s but most of the time it's above 1k Ph/s. I guess some mining operations shut down every now and then due to electricity cost spikes or weather etc.
This can be observed from the hashrate graph also,

With changes to the hashrate that are that steep I have to guess the biggest changes in hashrate are coming from large operations that make a point by mining in Ocean. Or perhaps also have found it might be more profitable to mine under the TIDES payment scheme after a block is found because of the way it rewards luck.

Many people don't even know that other pools are paying differently, in fact, 90% of miners don't understand how the payouts are generated and what formula the pool uses to calculate the rewards, I am willing to guess that nearly nobody that uses Antpool understands how they calculate their FPPS, there is no mentioned about it online, and the average support folks don't know the answer, it takes too much effort to figure out how these payouts originate for every pool, but again, most people are clueless.

I wonder how one of those clueless miners would have reacted if Ocean had mined a block now and instead of getting 8 BTC like Antpool and the rest that got lucky the reward would still have been 3 and a bit BTC. For a pool that mines a block every week throwing away sometimes a 200% of normal revenue down the drain would be a clear stay away sign.

But still, I cheered for Ocean once, it would have been damn hilarious for them to mine the halving block!

The folks behind Ocean Pool are pretty rich, they will probably continue to lose potential profit just to "prove their point", I won't be surprised to see this pool run for many years to come, also, you can't just assume that all miners know what mining is, many folks who already mine on that pool probably don't even know or understand how are they leaving money on the table by mining to this pool, it's wrong to assume that everyone is smart.

Seems that like always, money is king!

After managing to stay a bit over 1ex, ocean is down to 600ph.
https://ocean.xyz/dashboard
Not surprisingly, when the reward is 3btc and the fees often climb above that why mine here?
You can't feed a family on principles and you can't pay your electricity bills with things you think are right.

It was a dad project from the start, you won't get people who don't want to spend 10$ on tax or buy a 4TB drive for larger blocks to spend $5000 on one machine and lose money every day on bills to keep fees low.

Anyone know how could it be possible to see how many of OCEAN's mined TXns are from this new BRC-20 like on-chain technology called RUNES? At least with other such spammy things so far it was pretty easy to notice them by pasting the block tx on ordinals.com. I'm pretty sure Ocean mines Runes but I am not sure how to check entire block so far...

So far OCEAN's payment model is a bit different than most other pools.
Anytime a block is found, the payment happens immediately and the rewards are distributed as soon as the block is there.
That means that if you had 1% of the share log at the time of hitting a block, you get ~1% of the rewards.
This has both its advantages and disadvantages. The good thing means that you get fully rewarded for block finding luck.
So if a block is found earlier than expected, that means that you get all the rewards you could from the potential luck.
That means that right now OCEAN is a favorable pool for miners that feel lucky.
Edit:
I think though this is supposed to change after the 8th block is found? (Still waiting on the extended version of how the TIDAL payment model works in depth btw)
From what I've read in OCEAN's group the 8th block marks the ending of this "bonus" program and now payments will span 8 blocks.
Supposedly now the share log spans 8 blocks? Luke and Co. have been on twitter spaces every other day but here we have only this thread and I'm not their rep so idk.

I wonder what kind of miner decide to join OCEAN. Since OCEAN exclude Ordinals transaction, i only can assume it's someone who really hate Ordinals. It's also interesting this month they found 5 blocks, while last month they only found 3 blocks.

Interesting, OCEAN has been sitting at ~1.25 Eh/s for a few hours with relative stability. Let's see if it'll last this time.

As it's pretty natural with mining most of the hashrate comes from the top miners by hashrate, even though the pool has more than 400 individual miners active.
Also this time around the hashrate increased by many new miners tuning in around at the same time. So it might as well be the same operation just using different addresses.
With OCEAN these things can be observed from the pools page which monitors each address' activity very thoroughly.

You also should consider that at times the cost of energy exceeds the rewards from mining also resulting in mining farm curtailments regardless of energy sources.

You do realize that even with coal/gas/nuclear power sometimes ASICs are forced to shut down due to energy shortages, right?

That's part of the business...

If you want 24/7/365, make your own uninterruptible power source. When you depend on someone else, you'll be forced to follow their mandates.

Regarding the energy mix, I never said they don't use coal/gas/nuclear.

I said 50% comes from renewables, which means the remaining 50% comes from other sources (coal/gas/nuclear). There's nothing to debunk here.

Yeah, right, no!
Mining is a business, ASICs are like airplanes, you stop then (you ground them) you lose money!
And it has nothing to do with decentralization, that's the blockchain, this is $!


You consider an article written by a guy:
to not be baised?

The source is pretty simple, Marathon was forced to shut down it coals power plan at Hardin and move out to Rockdale
https://ir.mara.com/sec-filings/all-sec-filings/content/0001493152-23-007879/0001493152-23-007879.pdf guess how the new facility is powered?

https://greenidge.com/our-story/
Check the timeline at the bottom  Good old gas!

Riot and Whinstone, guess what is powering that?
https://www.gem.wiki/Whinstone_Bitcoin_mining_facility

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/texas-bitcoin-riot-ercot-grid-energy-18352398.php

Let's go to hut8:
https://hut8.com/2024/01/08/hut-8-receives-court-approval-in-its-stalking-horse-bid-for-four-natural-gas-power-plants-including-the-north-bay-bitcoin-mine/


Let's move to Aboutbit:
https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2022/05/11/2440883/0/en/AboutBit-launches-one-of-nation-s-largest-cryptocurrency-mining-facilities.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merom_Generating_Station

I'm getting bored, if you want more just google around, now it's your turn to show me one mining farm running on wind and solar alone to balance that to 0.5% at least not 50%. Don't forget Rockdale alone is 750MW!

Well my pool, every so often, sees blocks by two different pools well under 1 second apart, so I've no idea where the 5 second number came from.
eligius used to get a massive high orphan rate, due to their poor code, so I guess they will continue to do that.

One of the (not so many) times I agree with stompix here.

We all have to understand that corporations are in it for the money.
A good image benefits them and they're going to invest a lot in it, but sometimes that also involves being outright deceitful or just lying to get people to think you're doing something good.
Is mining based on renewable energy? Maybe yes, but only to some extent.
To claim that it's based on 50% renewable energy would be a lie though.
First of all the energy draw of a miner is constant, but the energy produced by renewable energy sources never is.

Operators of large mining facilities can strike meaningful agreements with energy producing companies, because they can help them monetize overproduction.
But that can also mean that the operators will be  forced out of the network (either financially or through agreement) when there's high demand that the network has to cover.
They will then have to fall back to more traditional and on-demand ready energy production methods such as fossil fuel (hence the coal). \

One could say that since energy production factories often can't run under capacity and are therefore usually over-producing energy, that if bitcoin miners mostly utilize that then their impact on their environment is mostly negligent since they don't create a carbon footprint that wouldn't be there without them. In this fashion, the claim that bitcoin miners run 50% on renewable energy could have some meaning IF these renewable sources had a positive impact by cutting down the production needs for regular energy consumers while the miners don't have to rely on them. But the coal mines/energy factories being owned and operated by BTC mining companies make this all these Greenwashing claims seem very deceptive.

I actually haven't verified this from a third party source but at least in Ocean's introductory livestream it was claimed that Bob Burnett's Barefoot Mining renovated and turned on an old hydroelectric plant to utilize as the energy source for a BTC mining farm. Supposedly attendees even received a tour in the facility. I'm not gonna say you should take them at their word, these things are hard to verify anyway. But if true, then we should give them credit for doing environmentally conscious mining the way it should be done. Hydro, contrary to solar whose productivity dwindles year by year, has a long lifespan, and even if bitcoin mining ends a few decades down the line, hydro projects could continue to be still utilized by future generations.

What part you don't understand exactly?

The BTC network is decentralized, which means ASICs can turn on and off regularly on demand (depending on power sources).

Give me a better source if you can:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/digital-assets/2023/09/21/why-bitcoin-mining-might-actually-be-great-for-sustainability/
https://digitalinfranetwork.com/news/research-suggests-over-50-per-cent-of-btc-mining-uses-clean-energy/
https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/news/bitcoin-mining-fifty-percent-renewable/

ps: I'm not in favor of WEF/Great Reset/ESG, but that doesn't mean that BTC + renewable energy + AI won't be the best tech combo ever invented. Mark my words, BTC has nothing to be afraid of.

What the f***?


And you actually believed that?  
That's why Mara bought a coal powerplant, riot another one , core one on gas and forgot their names want to burn tires for electricity!
In other news Tesla cars are made with zero energy out of recycles beer bottles and they run on unicorn farts, while  the Exxon Valdez oil spill was actual good for the wildlife helping penguins keep their black color intact (yeah I know there are no penguins in Alaska)

Anyhow


Yeah my bad, I forgot to add by the same pool in that, since we can't trust the times of two different pools I was looking for the time of two blocks mined by the same pool, since those mentioned report the time on their website to the second that would be the minimal time ever with a certain bit of accuracy. But it drops the number of instances by two order of magnitude since that miner has to mine itself two consecutive blocks.
Still the minimal time it ever took them to do so would be interesting!