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Topic: Elon Musk calls crypto “quite energy intensive” (Read 672 times)

legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1196
STOP SNITCHIN'
Moreover, a miner pays for the energy, not as if the energy used is free, it is left for the energy producing company to step up if it’s affecting them

That's definitely an issue. Ideally, miners would buy excess energy at a discount where it's abundant, rather than adding load to a high-demand or low-supply grid. There already exists some natural incentive to promote this: Where electricity is more abundant, prices are cheaper. I think as we see more businesses of scale enter the mining sector, we'll see an ever increasing share of operations moving towards more sustainable situations where they won't threaten power grids or drive prices up.

There's also the likelihood that green energy sources like wind and solar generation will become increasingly efficient and accessible to the market. That will lower the footprint of what miners consume beyond excess supply.
sr. member
Activity: 854
Merit: 281
It's true that bitcoin is energy intensive, so I hope there will be a shift to miners using renewable energy such as solar, wind, and hydroelectric power to secure the bitcoin network. I don't think bitcoin should be prohibited simply because it is energy intensive, but again I think we can use energy more intelligently for it.
sr. member
Activity: 270
Merit: 309
Shinji bgt gwh
I don't really agree with Elon Musk speech about the energy consumption of Bitcoin because i also find out that Bitcoin mining don't consume much energy than money print press but Bitcoin does consume 3x energy which the Visa and MasterCard consume. However, people are overreacting about Bitcoin energy consumption.
Well, Paper Money Was Used By ~7 Billion People
While Bitcoin Only Used By ~10 Million People[1]
The Money Print Press Only Use ~150%[2] Of Bitcoin Energy, But It Serve ~6900% More People.
sr. member
Activity: 812
Merit: 256
Not crypto but BTC there is a big difference because now we have hybrid coins with both pow and pos like DeepOnion and with time we will have mostly pos coins and this problem would be solved, BTC was something experimental which succeed but most of alts now have much more good features and others would be created will be better.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1028
He is very right, after all, he quite acknowledged the fact that bitcoin is a brilliant structure but the point he made which is not far from truth is that bitcoin is energy consuming as bitcoin gets more popular and more investor, mining becomes harder and requires sophisticated machines to mine it and these mining engine quite consumes energy but the energy consumption cannot be compare to the benefit of the bitcoin to the economy monetarily.

Moreover, a miner pays for the energy, not as if the energy used is free, it is left for the energy producing company to step up if it’s affecting them which it is not.
jr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 1
Elon Musk positive comment towards bitcoin will definitely put crypto industry in limelight and more positivity spread towards the market for price pump
hero member
Activity: 1834
Merit: 566
I agree with Elon musk that the blockchain structure is amazing and also that Bitcoin mining cosmumes a lot of energy as of now. But maybe with time the energy to consumption might reduce quite a lot compared to that of now.
I don't really agree with Elon Musk speech about the energy consumption of Bitcoin because i also find out that Bitcoin mining don't consume much energy than money print press but Bitcoin does consume 3x energy which the Visa and MasterCard consume. However, people are overreacting about Bitcoin energy consumption.
full member
Activity: 420
Merit: 106
I agree with Elon musk that the blockchain structure is amazing and also that Bitcoin mining cosmumes a lot of energy as of now. But maybe with time the energy to consumption might reduce quite a lot compared to that of now.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
Yes, unfortunately cryptocurrency mining is a quite energy-intensive process, but I think that with time everything will change and you can even get cryptocurrency using a phone.
hero member
Activity: 2702
Merit: 716
Nothing lasts forever
I would just say that everything good comes at a cost. Bitcoin is definitely a huge thing h\that has happened to us. It changed the life of many including me.
This  has to go on and if energy is the thing that keeps it running then may be we should not mind giving up some for something so good to keep running.
As Antonopolous said, one PoW system is enough in the market and bitcoin should be the one using it.
jr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 3
Elon Musk Statement on cryptocurrencies is a positive sign for crypto investors even we can say this pump happened because of Elon musk statement
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1252
it has been reported that Bitmain controls over 51%.

got a reliable source for that? cuz the SV/ABC war sort of showed how impotent bitmain is.

not only do they not control half the network, but much of what they do control is probably hosted on behalf of clients. similar to the case of mining pools above, bitmain has much less control than people think. prove otherwise. Wink

 Smiley
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/bitmain-nears-51-network-hash-rate-why-matters-and-why-it-doesnt/
Quote
Piecing all this together, it’s easy to see Bitmain’s influence on the network hash rate.
Through the different mining pools it exerts influence over in one way or another, it may have already stepped beyond the 50 percent mark some time ago.
Quote
Bitmain does, in fact, control well over half of all hash power on the network directly.

Wear Blinders if you prefer, but the reality is apparent to all that look.
Bitmain has over 51% control, they just smart enough to hide it.

That's just a conspiracy. We cannot really know who controls what hashrate wise. What do we know is that Jihan Wu has left the building, he knows Bitmain is in deep trouble. He took the wrong side of the fork, thus ending up in massive losses as he holds heavy bags of BCash. There's talks of the IPO and whatnot, last time I checked it really looks ugly for that company.

This is fantastic news because the way you can view it is just Bitcoin's incentives working as intended: those trying to fork away thinking their hashrate dictates where Bitcoin goes ends up holding some shitcoin and losing real money (that's real Bitcoin).
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1483
it has been reported that Bitmain controls over 51%.

got a reliable source for that? cuz the SV/ABC war sort of showed how impotent bitmain is.

not only do they not control half the network, but much of what they do control is probably hosted on behalf of clients. similar to the case of mining pools above, bitmain has much less control than people think. prove otherwise. Wink

Smiley
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/bitmain-nears-51-network-hash-rate-why-matters-and-why-it-doesnt/
Quote
Piecing all this together, it’s easy to see Bitmain’s influence on the network hash rate.
Through the different mining pools it exerts influence over in one way or another, it may have already stepped beyond the 50 percent mark some time ago.
Quote
Bitmain does, in fact, control well over half of all hash power on the network directly.

Wear Blinders if you prefer, but the reality is apparent to all that look.
Bitmain has over 51% control, they just smart enough to hide it.

right, so it's just as i thought.

fyi, that article is from over a year ago. the cited pools control ~ 1/3 of the network hash rate: https://www.blockchain.com/en/pools?timespan=4days

so, much less than 51% for starters.

next, bitmain does not control nearly that much hashrate themselves. they just operate the pools. miners will definitely point their hash rate away from antpool, btc.com and viabtc if they start 51% attacking the network:
Quote
the number of mining pools doesn't matter nearly as much as the actual distribution of hashpower. miners can point their hashpower away from a malicious pool at a moment's notice. pool operators who endanger the network will quickly fall from favor. remember ghash.io? hardly anyone else does either.....

finally, bitmain runs a business hosting miners for clients. so that's even less hash power they can use to attack the network (because clients will immediately pull the plug)

bitmain had an incredible fall from grace over the last year. their business is imploding with hundreds of millions $$ in losses. even if they had the hash rate (which they don't) they're in no financial position to risk attacking bitcoin lol.
copper member
Activity: 299
Merit: 1
You can't stop people from comparing this coins since they are all cryptocurrencies and people believe someday some how another coin may over take bitcoin
member
Activity: 572
Merit: 10
Yes, this is true. But as noted above, bitcoin does not consume more energy than printing presses. Therefore, there is no problem in my opinion.
legendary
Activity: 2828
Merit: 1497
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
Didnt CZ from binance tweet to elon musk last week he doesnt own tesla Cheesy but would be interested in owning some.
Maybe elon will want to trade some of his stock with CZ for some bitcoin. Grin
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1196
STOP SNITCHIN'
I'm sure he's not ignorant of alternative consensus methods. There just don't exist any yet that can come close to providing the security that proof-of-work does.

Federated consensus may have uses but it doesn't solve the Byzantine Generals' Problem and it requires a lot of trust. The point of Bitcoin was to eliminate trust, not to trust an elite group of validators to do the right thing.
Well, I didn't say federated consensus. I said Stellar's federated Byzantine agreement. It's central to the Stellar Consensus Protocol.

https://medium.com/stellar-development-foundation/on-worldwide-consensus-359e9eb3e949

Or, if you're really ambitious:

https://www.stellar.org/papers/stellar-consensus-protocol.pdf

To my knowledge, there has yet to be a significant flaw found in the consensus system of Stellar. And no mining to contribute to global warming.

I guess you can have your cake and eat it, too.

I'm aware of how Stellar works and I've read through the whitepaper. It definitely uses federated consensus, which implies lots of trust. I think that was one of the original purposes of Ripple/Stellar -- to leverage trust on the blockchain. An interesting concept, but absolutely not worthy of comparing to Bitcoin's security. There's no incentive to be a validator. The choice exists to trust whoever you want, but logically who will users trust and what is the default behavior? It tends towards a hub-and-spoke model where trusted banks, exchanges, and other services dictate the network consensus.

The incentives just aren't strong enough to keep everyone honest. Bitcoin's rational mining incentives are much more reliable.
newbie
Activity: 97
Merit: 0
“One of the downsides of crypto is it's quite energy intensive,” said Musk.

It's a shame that such a smart guy could make such an ignorant statement.

Now, if he had said “One of the downsides of crypto mining is it's quite energy intensive,” he would have been spot on.

Unfortunately, Musk probably has no idea that consensus methods that don't require mining - like Stellar's federated Byzantine agreement - even exist.

I'm sure he's not ignorant of alternative consensus methods. There just don't exist any yet that can come close to providing the security that proof-of-work does.

Federated consensus may have uses but it doesn't solve the Byzantine Generals' Problem and it requires a lot of trust. The point of Bitcoin was to eliminate trust, not to trust an elite group of validators to do the right thing.
Well, I didn't say federated consensus. I said Stellar's federated Byzantine agreement. It's central to the Stellar Consensus Protocol.

https://medium.com/stellar-development-foundation/on-worldwide-consensus-359e9eb3e949

Or, if you're really ambitious:

https://www.stellar.org/papers/stellar-consensus-protocol.pdf

To my knowledge, there has yet to be a significant flaw found in the consensus system of Stellar. And no mining to contribute to global warming.

I guess you can have your cake and eat it, too.
hero member
Activity: 3164
Merit: 937
Recently Elon Musk had an interview with ARK invest podcast. They mostly spoke about his company Tesla and key features of its success, but at the end of the 30-minute show, they touched cryptocurrencies as well.

At the start of this crypto segment, he laughed and told the story about how he got blocked on Twitter by making fun on the phrase “wanna buy some bitcoin”. Later he continued by saying “I've got some friends of mine that are really involved in crypto”.

And then came his legendary phrase, which all the major news sites picked up: ”I think Bitcoin's structure is quite brilliant.” Elon continued by elaborating on what he thinks are the downsides of crypto. He mentioned that one of the biggest downsides is the energy consumption. “One of the downsides of crypto is it's quite energy intensive,” said Musk.

We elaborated on the crypto energy consumption issue in our latest article: https://bestcoininvestments.com/elon-musk-calls-crypto-quite-energy-intensive/

Have a read, and tell us what is your perspective on this subject!  Roll Eyes

It's good to know that people like Elon Musk are aware about bitcoin/blockchain.
However there's nothing interesting in this interview.We all know about the energy consumption flaws of the blockchain.This is a problem that can be solved.
sr. member
Activity: 270
Merit: 309
Shinji bgt gwh
you forgot that there is an "IF" behind that sentence and that means it first has to satisfy a certain condition and then consume that much energy. that "condition" is maturity and mass adoption in which case it means a unique decentralized system that is processing monetary transactions of the whole world for hundreds of millions of people every day. as a result of that, the power consumption would be negligible.

you see it is never about how much power is consumed, it is mostly about why it was consumed and what was offered in return.
2% of World Energy Consumption = 435.5 TWh Annually[1](Assumption If Bitcoin Became As Big As Traditional Banking System)
Banking Use Only 100 TWh Annually
Same Amount Of People Served, Power Usage Is Four Times Higher

BITCOIN IS NOT ENERGY EFFICIENT
 
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