Elon Musk calls crypto “quite energy intensive” - page 2.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: ?? on ??

There are only ~15 Mining Pools Controlling Bitcoin and hidden in that amount

the number of mining pools doesn't matter nearly as much as the actual distribution of hashpower. miners can point their hashpower away from a malicious pool at a moment's notice. pool operators who endanger the network will quickly fall from favor. remember ghash.io? hardly anyone else does either.....

Quote from: ?? on ??

it has been reported that Bitmain controls over 51%.

got a reliable source for that? cuz the SV/ABC war sort of showed how impotent bitmain is.

not only do they not control half the network, but much of what they do control is probably hosted on behalf of clients. similar to the case of mining pools above, bitmain has much less control than people think. prove otherwise. Wink

Herbert2020

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Quote from: Farul on February 22, 2019, 09:05:08 AM

Quote

If bitcoin technology were to mature by more than 100 times its current market size, it would still equal only 2 percent of all energy consumption.

2% Of World Electric Consumption Is Huge
2% World Electric Consumption Can Power Indonesia,Bangladesh,Philliphines^[1](More Than 500 Million People) Simultaneously

you forgot that there is an "IF" behind that sentence and that means it first has to satisfy a certain condition and then consume that much energy. that "condition" is maturity and mass adoption in which case it means a unique decentralized system that is processing monetary transactions of the whole world for hundreds of millions of people every day. as a result of that, the power consumption would be negligible.

you see it is never about how much power is consumed, it is mostly about why it was consumed and what was offered in return.

eaLiTy

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Quote from: BestCoinInvestments on February 20, 2019, 01:03:35 PM

And then came his legendary phrase, which all the major news sites picked up: ”I think Bitcoin's structure is quite brilliant.” Elon continued by elaborating on what he thinks are the downsides of crypto. He mentioned that one of the biggest downsides is the energy consumption. “One of the downsides of crypto is it's quite energy intensive,” said Musk.

The people who complain about the intensive use of energy to mine bitcoin has ever evaluated the amount of energy the rest of the financial institutions use around the globe to run their banks and other centralized financial institutions, if you compare that globally with the power consumption of bitcoin mining it will be minuscule, bitcoin is a financial structure which is decentralized and the fact is we really do not need these much tera, peta or exa hash power to mine the coin, this is a competitive field and people who are ready to spend money to mine it, they are doing it in an industrial scale. So how you solve this issue, to get rid of the competition, which is not feasible. Only thing you can do is to ask the industrial miners to move to renewable energy.

cellard

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Bitcoin's value is derived from the big network effect which creates the big amounts of hashrate which creates the big security behind it... is a cycle. The people that call Bitcoin "energy wasteful" is just not understanding all those things behind the curtain.

Elon said he has 0.25 BTC that he was given years ago recently so I doubt he has spent any time researching Bitcoin at all.

magneto

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Quote from: BestCoinInvestments on February 20, 2019, 01:03:35 PM

Recently Elon Musk had an interview with ARK invest podcast. They mostly spoke about his company Tesla and key features of its success, but at the end of the 30-minute show, they touched cryptocurrencies as well.

At the start of this crypto segment, he laughed and told the story about how he got blocked on Twitter by making fun on the phrase “wanna buy some bitcoin”. Later he continued by saying “I've got some friends of mine that are really involved in crypto”.

And then came his legendary phrase, which all the major news sites picked up: ”I think Bitcoin's structure is quite brilliant.” Elon continued by elaborating on what he thinks are the downsides of crypto. He mentioned that one of the biggest downsides is the energy consumption. “One of the downsides of crypto is it's quite energy intensive,” said Musk.

We elaborated on the crypto energy consumption issue in our latest article: https://bestcoininvestments.com/elon-musk-calls-crypto-quite-energy-intensive/

Have a read, and tell us what is your perspective on this subject! Roll Eyes

I personally think that there is a misconception that the energy that is used by bitcoin miners is going to waste. No, they are not. They are performing the important function of securing the network, validating and processing transactions.

He's not wrong about bitcoin using a lot of energy. But it really depends on what energy is being used, and the way that it is produced in the first place. That's what matters. If bitcoin is using excess energy that was going to go to waste anyways (which I think I read in an article once that this is the case in most scenarios, IIRC), or that the energy is sustainably sourced, then there shouldn't be any issues.

Besides, I think that given that bitcoin is replacing a lot of what gold and silver is as store of values, it may even be more eco-friendly given that gold and silver mining happens on such a large scale.

squatter

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STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: ?? on ??

Nonsense, it is more profitable to attack a Proof of Work Chain.
I attack a proof of work chain with ASICS and after destroying that PoW coin move on to another PoW using the same algorithm .

That only works on insecure POW altcoins that share a hashing algorithm with a superior coin. For example, a relatively small subset of Bitcoin miners could attack Bitcoin Cash because it has such a small hash rate. The reverse could never be done. The incentives against double spending attacks are much stronger in Bitcoin or even Ethereum because of the extreme costs incurred by mining.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Proof of Stake requires , I purchase the amount of coins necessary to pull off at attack, which I immediately make my entire investment worth less by attacking it and can not switch to mining another coin like I can with a PoW coin.

You don't necessarily need to purchase that many coins. Groups of stakers can collude together. Altcoin supply distributions also tend to be highly concentrated, whether because of early accumulation when hardly any users existed or scammy initial distribution of coins.

Your entire investment wouldn't become worthless just because of a temporary 51% attack. Attacks like this have happened on lots of chains which still carry value today.

I'm not entirely opposed to POS myself, but I think its theoretical security guarantees are weak. I think if you want something close to irreversibility then you should use something like Bitcoin.

maksimukr1989

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Quote from: BestCoinInvestments on February 20, 2019, 01:03:35 PM

Recently Elon Musk had an interview with ARK invest podcast. They mostly spoke about his company Tesla and key features of its success, but at the end of the 30-minute show, they touched cryptocurrencies as well.

At the start of this crypto segment, he laughed and told the story about how he got blocked on Twitter by making fun on the phrase “wanna buy some bitcoin”. Later he continued by saying “I've got some friends of mine that are really involved in crypto”.

And then came his legendary phrase, which all the major news sites picked up: ”I think Bitcoin's structure is quite brilliant.” Elon continued by elaborating on what he thinks are the downsides of crypto. He mentioned that one of the biggest downsides is the energy consumption. “One of the downsides of crypto is it's quite energy intensive,” said Musk.

We elaborated on the crypto energy consumption issue in our latest article: https://bestcoininvestments.com/elon-musk-calls-crypto-quite-energy-intensive/

Have a read, and tell us what is your perspective on this subject! Roll Eyes

If we assume that with the help of bitcoin it is possible to exclude completely intermediaries in the form of the financial sector,it is not difficult to assume that bitcoin is less energy-intensive.

Farul

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Shinji bgt gwh

Quote from: Jating on February 22, 2019, 02:45:05 AM

Here is a good read for everyone:

https://phys.org/news/2018-08-energy-bitcoin.html

Quote

Banking consumes an estimated 100 terrawatts of power annually.
bitcoin mining uses an exorbitant amount of power: somewhere between an estimated 30 terrawatt hours alone in 2017 alone.

Well, People Use Banking System More Than Bitcoin,There Are A Lot More Transaction In Banking System Than In Bitcoin Network.
You Are Comparing System That Used By More Than A Billion people Vs System That Used By Less Than 50 Million People
if You Use Electricity per Transaction You Will Get A Very Different Result
Banking Use A Lot Of Power,But It Was More Efficient

Quote

If bitcoin technology were to mature by more than 100 times its current market size, it would still equal only 2 percent of all energy consumption.

2% Of World Electric Consumption Is Huge
2% World Electric Consumption Can Power Indonesia,Bangladesh,Philliphines^[1](More Than 500 Million People) Simultaneously

Jating

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Here is a good read for everyone:

https://phys.org/news/2018-08-energy-bitcoin.html

Quote

Counting consumption

Unlocking a bitcoin requires an intense amount of computational power. Think of bitcoin as sort of a hidden currency code, where its value is derived by solving a programmable puzzle. Getting through this puzzle requires computer brainpower.

Electricity is 90 percent of the cost to mine bitcoin. As such, bitcoin mining uses an exorbitant amount of power: somewhere between an estimated 30 terrawatt hours alone in 2017 alone. That's as much electricity as it takes to power the entire nation of Ireland in one year.

Indeed, this is a lot, but not exorbitant. Banking consumes an estimated 100 terrawatts of power annually. If bitcoin technology were to mature by more than 100 times its current market size, it would still equal only 2 percent of all energy consumption.

So it pretty much says everything, banking consumes more energy, but why we haven't heard anyone attacking it? And pretty much the mining in China is being set up and coal is being used.

Digitalbitcoin

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Quote from: crzy on February 20, 2019, 05:36:22 PM

So he will invent a bitcoin mining rig that can be more energy efficient, hopefully yes.
Well, this is still a great thought from a great man, now bitcoin is being hype my bang big businesses and its time now to see a bull run. Let’s see who’s next in line to say good thoughts about bitcoin.

Yup. It's just beginning.

Will see many more entities with statements relate to Bitcoin and other altcoins in coming years, which will make little more favor and literacy about cryptocurrencies to the non-related audience, this will skyrocket the price of Bitcoin for sure. Blockchain technology implementation will make businesses more lucrative in many aspects.

And then the actual digital/token economy will be formed globally.

The world is on the way towards digital/token economy, which will change the complete traditional system of businesses. Along with Finance, decentralized technology will impact on may other industries such as logistic, real estate, health, governance, many corporate, private, and public sectors.

expertofexperts

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Then please ask Elon to buy btc worth billions so it can rise high and we can sell ours Grin

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: Autumn_Rain on February 21, 2019, 05:49:19 AM

But it's only a PoW consensus which is energy consuming, isn't it?

Correct, algorithms such as Proof of Stake are Energy Efficient.

While PoW is energy wasted. But the bitcoin shrills will never admit it.
They confuse waste with security. Tongue

cost is related to security, not waste. Wink

proof of work achieves security through incentive because it costs more to attack the system than to mine honestly. therefore it's only rational to mine honestly.

with proof of stake, it could be much more profitable to attack the system than to mint honestly. why? because there is zero cost for stakers to attack the chain. if they can make more money by double spending than by minting honestly, they'll do it.

rosmerius

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Revolutionizing Crypto Payment Solutions

They only see that bitcoin does need a lot of electricity, even though many other mines use electricity. The global money printing machine also uses electricity but this is not what he thinks. That is his opinion, what is certain is that electrical energy itself provides an opportunity for us to continue to be able to appreciate ourselves in order to mine and produce.

solarcrypto

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It is energy intensive. Just thinking out loud, but I feel this could open the door for Tesla to be involved with sustainable mining.

squatter

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STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: Monetran on February 20, 2019, 09:38:56 PM

Quote from: BestCoinInvestments on February 20, 2019, 01:03:35 PM

“One of the downsides of crypto is it's quite energy intensive,” said Musk.

It's a shame that such a smart guy could make such an ignorant statement.

Now, if he had said “One of the downsides of crypto mining is it's quite energy intensive,” he would have been spot on.

Unfortunately, Musk probably has no idea that consensus methods that don't require mining - like Stellar's federated Byzantine agreement - even exist.

I'm sure he's not ignorant of alternative consensus methods. There just don't exist any yet that can come close to providing the security that proof-of-work does.

Federated consensus may have uses but it doesn't solve the Byzantine Generals' Problem and it requires a lot of trust. The point of Bitcoin was to eliminate trust, not to trust an elite group of validators to do the right thing.

dothebeats

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Cashback 15%

If a visionary like Elon Musk, who provides clean energy for a lot of residence and commercial spaces, actually built something that the miners might utilize, this wouldn't be a problem. Perhaps it could even be a huge market for him and his companies, considering that there are already a lot of miners operating worldwide who are already complaining about profitability declination since the bear market began. Needless to say, this is not a serious matter, and most reports of bitcoin's 'environmental damage' are exaggerated, and can easily be found a solution if we really want to.

Artemis3

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CLEAN non GPL infringing code made in Rust lang

Quote from: Kakmakr on February 21, 2019, 12:48:30 AM

Someone should really send him this, https://hackernoon.com/the-reports-of-bitcoin-environmental-damage-are-garbage-5a93d32c2d7

Elon Musk should actually embrace this technology, because it is one way for him to actually push for more sales of his "Power Wall" technology. Imagine if people could utilize cheaper electricity for mining with the "Power Wall" technology, then he would be selling more of those products. Roll Eyes

When people realize the truth behind Bitcoin mining and how energy efficient the technology is, then they are not brainwashed by uniformed shills that are pushing hidden agendas with FUD like Bitcoin being energy intensive. Roll Eyes

Actually Tesla (which Acquired Solarcity) can provide the very panels, and if you want to use Li-ion batteries to store power you can combine it with the powerwall as well.

They have projects that power entire islands and could easily provide the means for miners which just like small countries are just another customer.

Elon doesn't really need to worry, because in time the only miners that remain will be those with "free" (ie. Solar) energy. Everyday mining becomes less and less profitable until there are no countries left on Earth where its profitable to do it on the grid. Then you will observe an important reduction in hashrate, but that doesn't matter because Bitcoin adjusts difficulty automatically (every 2016 blocks) so it always finds a block every 10 minutes no matter what.

This process has been delayed a few times by the rise of bitcoin price, but I foresee the mining will become less profitable faster than bitcoin deflationary process. And that is GOOD, Bitcoin already IS environmentally friendly, thanks to free market.

Those miners unable to see ahead will stop mining, and that is fine. Bitcoin will go on.

suzanne5223

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Quote from: avikz on February 20, 2019, 01:27:07 PM

Mining is not limited to bitcoin only so I would rather say, crypto mining can be seen as energy intensive. However, it sounds true when you don't have benchmark to compare with. But if you compare the energy consumption of minting presses with cryptos, it would look so tiny that you would not think much about it in the future.

I would encourage you to read the below article which provides a very good overview of this matter and it shows that global money printing presses consume energy worth 28 billion usd annually whereas bitcoin consumes 0.79 billion usd. It's 2.8% of global money printing consumption. Does it look so big now??

Although, i dont know the worth of global money printing energy consumption but we can't blame Elon Musk because most people believe believe Bitcoin consume enormous amounts of electricity and with my own research the total energy consumption of Bitcoin mining per annum was US$ 0.76billion.

Autumn_Rain

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But it's only a PoW consensus which is energy consuming, isn't it?

aoluain

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we all know that energy consumption through fossil fuels has
to be drastically reduced in order to meet some targets to keep
the planet from warming by something like 1 or 2 degrees over
the next number of years but Bitcoin is just a very, very small
part of the story.

As franky1 eludes to the idea of stopping drinking soft drinks from
refrigerators we should if we listen to the experts stop flying,
stop driving petrol/diesel cars, stop farming meat, stop mining, stop
producing plastics, stop owning pets the truth is we cannot regress
as a society. Commercialism and capitalism still wants to continue,
industry still wants to make money, everyone wants to make money.

The challenge is big but it has to be acted on by everyone.

Topic: Elon Musk calls crypto “quite energy intensive” - page 2. (Read 672 times)