Topic: Enjoy comunism: Venezuela raises monthly minimum wage to $2.40 - page 4. (Read 748 times)

Venezuela's economy transitioned from being one of the wealthiest and richest economies in south america.

To eventually becoming one of the poorest in south america.

Many of the same policies which led venezuela to poverty are being proposed and endorsed at the highest levels in the USA.

Perhaps in venezuela's current state of affairs we might glimpse america's future.

It's that you Graham?

They are overcoming this for 8 years and they somehow still manage to be 20 feets under..
Leaders..oh my god, leaders? And not only that, leaders? Are we talking about the taxi driver turned president?
The one telling people to grow rabbits on their balconies to overcome national hunger?


Sorry for you! There are remedies although, you could try getting rid of it


Because we have food? Or a job? And access to healthcare? And we're not shot and beaten up for telling jokes about el president?
As for being worse than Venezuela, I'm just going to say one thing, cut the bullshit!


These evil Americans, how could they sanction this country, such greedy level capitalist.
Funny how despite all those soc called sanctions, PDSV was able to buy Citgo, and operate refineries and gas stations in the US while every Us company in Venezuela had all their properties nationalized and has been kicked out.
Despite all the bad things Venezuela has suffered from the US they seem to be so keen on selling oil and doing business in the US, I wonder why?
Maybe because that's another trait of socialism, propaganda against everyone when actually there is nobody harming you other than your stupidity?


Caldera was a capitalist? Seriously? Seriousllllllllyyyy? Who the fuck nationalized the petroleum industry in Venezuela in the '70? The Martians?
Talking about the disease, this is also a socialism disease, rewriting history!

If a nation really wants to help the poor so much, they have to tax the rich higher, and poor lower, that would be enough, more than enough. Think about a person with minimum wage in almost any nation, and they do not pay any taxes at all in anything, wouldn't that make them a lot better? In that case the power of the money stays the same, those people spend that money and basically pours that money into the economy helping the whole nation, and the country is still quite strong.

Well, what if all those people not paying taxes mean bad for the government treasury? Just make sure to charge higher taxes for super wealthy, people who make 10+ million dollars a year, and if any of them try to take their money somewhere else, make sure you charge them a HUGE fine when they bring it back, that way if they want out, kick them out, they can't come in without proper apology amount paid.

You can never compare middle east with Venezuela. In Saudi Arabia and the other Arab nations, the cost of producing crude oil can be as low as $2 per barrel. But in Venezuela, most of the crude is stuck in reserves that are difficult to exploit and it costs around $40-$50 per barrel to extract crude oil. Saudi Arabia can still spend billions of USD in luxuries, because they are still having surplus cash in hand. But that is not the case with Venezuela, as they don't have much revenue left after counting the production cost.

While building a country only on natural resources is risky, there is nothing wrong with. Look at the middle east, all their wealth is coming from oil and exporting it. The difference here is the government, in the middle east there are mostly monarchs who make sure that they become rich first, but since they get so much money they also invest it back into their own country. Building hotels and trying to attract tourists a nice source of income as well. So natural resource can be the first step to a wealthy nation, but it needs a lot of investment in other areas to become competitive.

I don't think that you should blame the people of Venezuela. They had two options in 2013 (after the death of Hugo Chávez). The first choice was Nicolás Maduro of the Socialist party and the second choice was Henrique Capriles Radonski (who represented the Primero Justicia party). A lot of people were scared by the religious extremism of Capriles and additionally the death of Chávez created some sort of a sympathy wave in favor of Maduro. The people voted for the least poisonous option, and that turned out to be Maduro. If Capriles was elected, then he would have destroyed what remains of the Venezuelan portion of the Amazon forest (similar to what his friend Bolsonaro did in Brazil) and exterminated the indigenous groups.

An absolutely expected situation. It is a pity for people, but they themselves are the culprits of what has developed in the country now. It is foolish to build an economy on oil alone, it is foolish to elect a dim-witted populist president. I hope the population will understand that it is necessary to vote not for promises, but for logical goals. I hope that politicians will also understand that it is impossible to build an economy on oil alone. And all together will be able to "restart" the country. But if you continue to believe in the communist-socialist delirium, then you should not expect a normal life.

The fundamental problem is oil. The huge abundance of oil in Venezuela is both its blessing and its curse. If a country has one overwhelming source of wealth, then naturally it focuses on that to the exclusion of everything else. The endemic poverty in Venezuela is I believe a direct consequence of its oil wealth. Its over-reliance on oil is an example of the economic phenomenon known as the 'Dutch Disease'. For example, Venezuela produces only 30% of its own food supply.

_{https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/economics/dutch-disease/}

In the '70s, when oil prices were high, the capitalist-run country was thriving.
In the '80s, oil prices dropped, and poverty hit hard. The country had bet everything on oil, and had no plan B to fall back on. There was unrest. Capitalism had apparently failed. People wanted change, and so...
In the '90s, they elected a socialist, Chavez, who would bring about a new, more equitable system of governance, end the inequality, and bring back wealth to the people.

I do believe that in general Chavez was well-intentioned, but he didn't manage Venezuela in a sustainable way. Maduro then inherited the problems of Chavez... problems which in large part Chavez inherited from the previous capitalist regime... which were due to the abundance of oil.

US involvement is part of the reason for the problems of Venezuela.
The current regime is part of the reason. Chavez is part of the reason. The capitalist regime preceding Chavez is part of the reason.
But beneath everything, oil is the cause.

I would say that it is a populist, communist-inspired regime, and it is very communist today because over the years it has destroyed practically the entire private sector.


No, I don't think it's a coincidence. Just like I think the invasion of Iraq was done for oil.

Anyway, I think the tendency of the country to self-destruct would not have been much different even if there had been no US intervention. So we are quite in agreement.

US sanctions certainly do have an effect. You only have to go as far from US soil as Cuba to see that this is the case. But yes, sanctions are at the milder end of the scale.

Sticking purely to Venezuela to remain on topic...

How about US involvement in the coup of 2002? Whatever the CIA was doing behind the scenes, and however much they deny involvement, their protestations are unconvincing.

_{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt#US_role_and_alleged_involvement}

Also, is it really entirely coincidental that Venezeula has the world's largest oil reserves? The US does have some history of 'interest' in countries where they can steal the oil... consider for example the 600,000 violent deaths in Iraq following the 2003 invasion.

... but I agree that this is only one aspect. Much of the fault for the current situation in Venezuela lies with Maduro, with corruption and mismanagement. Also I would absolutely agree that extreme leftist regimes are intrinsically more susceptible to corruption and authoritarianism. I'm not disputing any of this, all I'm saying is that Venezuela starts from a profound disadvantage because a) it has a leftist leader, and b) it has oil. To suggest the US has had no effect on instability in the country is I think disingenuous.

The regime in Venezuela isn't communist.It's more like an authoritarian socialist,populist corrupt regime.
A real communist regime means 100% state owned command economy and I think that there's something like a private sector in the economy of Venezuela.
I wonder how Maduro and the government in Venezuela managed to survive for so long.Is it because of the support of the army and some weaponized "red militia"?I don't know.Politics in Latin America has always been weird and exotic.US sanctions have an impact over the hyperinflation in Venezuela.We can't put all the blame on Maduro. 
Anyway,when communism fails,the communists say that it wasn't "real communism".

As far as I know, they use it on a day to day basis but those who can save or have previous wealth have it in USD or cryptos, following Gresham's law, spend the bad currency and save the good.

There must be some Venezuelans on the forum, but surely they don't speak good English and will be on the Spanish board.


From what you comment, I don't know how they can do that to pressure the government without taking into account the repercussion it has on the population but:

1) Sanctions started with Obama.
2) When they started they already had years of disastrous populist government.
3) The EU, which is more social democratic than the US, has also imposed sanctions.

I mean, sanctions don't look to me like some evil savage capitalists preventing the country from progressing.

The essence of socialism is very simple - steal the money from the successful people and distribute a part of it among the poor. Since the poor have a greater voting power, the political party which promises to do this will be elected to power very comfortably. Now the problem with Socialism is that, eventually they run out of money to steal from. Successful people will either migrate to other countries (similar to what happened in Cuba), or they will lose their money and become poor themselves.

Yes they will if they adopt a new ccurrency which could be the US dollar but right now I don't think that it will be the case, people will have to suffer for a while with this problem that Maduro and his predecessors created. Also, how come it is a communism if the wages were increased, is it wrong to raise wages for the working class? I find it stupid that everytime the rights of the workers are being taken care for the better, it becomes a commie shit which it isn't.

I also hope so, although I have a little doubt the present older generation of Venezuelans will see the end of the tunnel during their lifetime. Maduro looks young and fit. And while the opposition seems to have a good amount of influence and force, their strength seem insufficient nevertheless to unseat Maduro and replace the set of corrupt leaders.


How do you define socialism, then? Does that automatically follow that since a country is providing free healthcare, education, and other social services to its people it is already a socialist country? How about the fact that capitalism and democracy is actually very much vibrant in the European countries that you've mentioned like France and Norway? Or is it that both capitalism and socialism could exist side by side in a government?

Certainly the government has to shoulder plenty of the blame. But we must also consider that to some degree the misfortune of the population is due to US intervention over the last few years. History teaches us that any leftist leader in Central or South America is simply beyond the pale, and must be dealt with, whether that's crippled by sanctions, or quite brazenly ousted by force... as we saw with 9/11.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America

I am a socialist. I will never understand why people who live in capitalist societies do not consider that they are in big trouble, I mean I live in a capitalist nation and it looks like much worse than Venezuela.

If you think that the worst nations in the world are socialist ones, you might actually be right, why? Because there are dictatorships there as well, have you ever seen a socialist nation without a dictator? They will never mention the names of that.

Look at Europe, even though they are a democracy, they have all the great socialist ideas, free colleges, free healhtcare, free many things all paid with your taxes, isn't that great? Yes Venezuela is socialist, but so is France, yes Cuba is socialist but so is Norway, why not see them? Look at USA, worlds biggest capitalist nation, people die because they can't afford their insulin, that is the nation you want to be in? I rather not die from something that 1/3 of all people have, that is as insane as it gets and makes USA a third world country in my view.

I think the world is more concerned with Africa, -although am an African- in terms of bad economy and suffering, butj think Venezuela is one of those countries that the citizens are living a poor standard life, I have a Friend who I chat over the phone from Venezuela and she said their power outage has gone so bad and also they use the firewood, I can't remember the last time I used it saw a firewood.

I think their present government has failed the people of Venezuela, and I had taught my country had the worst minimum wage in the world, now Venezuela is officially my worst, and  the raise of the minimum wage by that amount is a summary of the life the people are living, you have to work multiple work to run a family with such wages

This is very unfortunate. In country like these people usually send one of their family member to work abroad. The Government is flawed and the whole economic system is more like a joke. I do think it's very much needed that the country independently starts resolving their issues, do not compare their whole system to USD or anything. Work independently, start resolving the issues of venezuela, there is serious mismanagement! The country lost their whole system due to decreasing oil production which nearly disappeared and the oil prices fell drastically at the same time the corruption needs to be controlled to a whole extent!! They are already big on bitcoins, I do think people should train more in the IT sector, start working online. Recieve their payments in bitcoins and if the Government does not make any progress then people have to start looking out for themselves and cryptocurrencies can help them in that way certainly.

This is the biggest tragedy of all, it is natural that people want to improve their standards of living but instead of doing the only way it can be done, by working hard, improving yourself and other similar measures they ask the politicians to take actions like that and since politicians care about nothing else but to get their vote and be popular they do so.

Then the people blame the politicians when things take a turn for the worse but this was not caused only by them, the people participated on their own tragedy, this is why politics should be a specific field of knowledge and a great deal of it should be dedicated to the economic aspect of running the government otherwise things like this will keep happening.