Topic: Enjoy getting raided by the IRS for not reporting income and capital gains. (Read 6814 times)
April 06, 2013, 12:23:06 PM
throwing away you U.S. passport might help.
1788 people did it last year, a record high.
April 06, 2013, 12:18:30 PM
Bah, just hold your coins until you have millions of dollars worth in FIAT.. Cash out and don't pay a dime.
Leave as fast as fast can be for a nice tax haven country on a private plane with a few suitcases of whatever currency you fancy....
Leave as fast as fast can be for a nice tax haven country on a private plane with a few suitcases of whatever currency you fancy....
This makes no sense. Why carry suitcases of paper money across the border when you can carry it as bitcoins in your brain wallet?
April 06, 2013, 11:44:35 AM
This is something my 'friend' said to me when discussing bitcoins, how do i(you) respond?
Some of us are not americans/US residents so the IRS is the last of our worries
April 06, 2013, 11:34:24 AM
For US citizens, keep in mind that if you live in a foreign country for a full calendar year, earned income up to $80K is exempt from US taxes. Assumptively because you're being taxed by that country. Just sayin'.
For US citizens, keep in mind that if you leave the country with all your assets and never come back for any reason the ability of the IRS to impose penalties on you can be reduced to negligible levels. Just sayin'. 
April 06, 2013, 11:29:15 AM
If you have made alot it might be worth moving to a country without capital tax for a few years 
Sadly in the US unless you renounce your citizenship (and to do that requires you gain citizenship in another country first) and pay an "exit tax" simply moving to another country doesn't erase any tax liability.
Still people shouldn't get tax advice from the internet.
If it is a small sum honestly the IRS has bigger fish to fry. The IRS audits less than 0.5% of tax returns for people making less than $250,000 per year. They aren't going to spend the manpower to track down some guy who had a $300 capital gain on some Bitcoins a couple years ago.
If you have a significant amount of wealth you are already use to dealing with the IRS (they concentrate on the "top") and likely already have professional tax support. If you suddenly find yourself in this latter category and don't have professional support ... get it.
For US citizens, keep in mind that if you live in a foreign country for a full calendar year, earned income up to $80K is exempt from US taxes. Assumptively because you're being taxed by that country. Just sayin'.
April 06, 2013, 11:23:24 AM
If you have made alot it might be worth moving to a country without capital tax for a few years
Sadly in the US unless you renounce your citizenship (and to do that requires you gain citizenship in another country first) and pay an "exit tax" simply moving to another country doesn't erase any tax liability.
Still people shouldn't get tax advice from the internet.
If it is a small sum honestly the IRS has bigger fish to fry. The IRS audits less than 0.5% of tax returns for people making less than $250,000 per year. They aren't going to spend the manpower to track down some guy who had a $300 capital gain on some Bitcoins a couple years ago.
If you have a significant amount of wealth you are already use to dealing with the IRS (they concentrate on the "top") and likely already have professional tax support. If you suddenly find yourself in this latter category and don't have professional support ... get it.
April 06, 2013, 11:17:38 AM
If you have made alot it might be worth moving to a country without capital tax for a few years
April 06, 2013, 09:05:28 AM
So, are we allowed to copy what these people did?:
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/world/anonymous-wealth-revealed-after-data-leak-1.1348735
That's about 32 trillion they have socked away. Equals out to over $4000 dollars for all of us if it was divided up.
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/world/anonymous-wealth-revealed-after-data-leak-1.1348735
That's about 32 trillion they have socked away. Equals out to over $4000 dollars for all of us if it was divided up.
April 06, 2013, 08:13:31 AM
My point is...either plan to pay the taxes on your BTC, become an outlaw, or go to prison...those are the only options!
Some outlaws pay taxes and stay out of jail.
Some 'outlaws' don't pay taxes AND stay out of jail. Oh, look, its the British Virgin Islands....
April 06, 2013, 08:06:16 AM
What about if you cash them out in a country that has little or no capital gains tax and then transfer the money to your bank account in the country you live in?
Is that viable? Would you have to be a citizen of the other country or something like that?
Or would you just end up getting flagged as a money launderer?
If you transferred over 10k you may be taxed and perhaps have to pay import fees. I think it would be more expensive. Is that viable? Would you have to be a citizen of the other country or something like that?
Or would you just end up getting flagged as a money launderer?
April 06, 2013, 07:21:24 AM
What about if you cash them out in a country that has little or no capital gains tax and then transfer the money to your bank account in the country you live in?
Is that viable? Would you have to be a citizen of the other country or something like that?
Or would you just end up getting flagged as a money launderer?
Is that viable? Would you have to be a citizen of the other country or something like that?
Or would you just end up getting flagged as a money launderer?
April 06, 2013, 12:06:03 AM
If you bought $100 of Euros and it appreciated and was worth $200 and then you spend them, you would owe no tax. As you as you consider bitcoins to be a foreign currency, you are ok.
Just buy gold with it directly.
Just buy gold with it directly.
there is an exemption for gains under $200, but otherwise this is an incorrect, ignorant statement. if you want to learn about this area of tax law, see
http://www.fenwick.com/FenwickDocuments/Outline-Taxation-of-Foreign-Currency-Transactions-and-Translation.pdf
for a start.
the united states tax code does not treat dollars as special. if you earn three gold coins for services rendered, you owe tax on the market value of the three gold coins at the time you received them. if you hold them and they then appreciate whilst you hold them, and you spend them on silver, you owe tax on the profit (the difference in value between the time you received them and the time you spent them on something else). this is true of any property, although different kinds of property can lead to different tax rates depending on the circumstances.
i have firsthand knowledge that at least one prominent bitcoiner has been reported to the united states IRS for tax year 2012 using their 'Form 3949-A'. i will personally be paying in excess of US $160,000 of bitcoin-related taxes for the 2013 tax year.
April 05, 2013, 09:28:57 PM
Just follow the tax laws of the country you are operating in; the "tax evasion" question is about income, not about Bitcoin.
April 05, 2013, 08:52:38 PM
Bah, just hold your coins until you have millions of dollars worth in FIAT.. Cash out and don't pay a dime.
Leave as fast as fast can be for a nice tax haven country on a private plane with a few suitcases of whatever currency you fancy....
Leave as fast as fast can be for a nice tax haven country on a private plane with a few suitcases of whatever currency you fancy....
April 05, 2013, 05:35:39 PM
Only poor people pay tax. Just look at those saving accounts in tax heaven country, 30 trillion USD, almost double the US government debt, I don't even understand where is the corresponding debt of those savings 
April 05, 2013, 05:16:02 PM
This is something my 'friend' said to me when discussing bitcoins, how do i(you) respond?
It is only a profit if you convert it to your local currency. This is the same theory as if you were to buy a stock share. I on the other hand have to pay taxes on every sale I make with my business. On a personal level you should only have to pay taxes if you cash out. Of course you should pay your taxes although, it is not a big deal as it is only capital gains tax and you only pay on the profit.
April 05, 2013, 04:56:05 PM
pay your taxes and laugh in your friends face all the way to the fucking bank
if he is laughing at your fortune he is obviously jealous and therefore is not your friend
if he is laughing at your fortune he is obviously jealous and therefore is not your friend
April 05, 2013, 04:34:07 PM
Capital gains only apply when you *sell* bitcoins. Tell your friend that you're planning on spending them, and that there isn't an IRS dedicated to Bitcoins yet because we pay a network tax instead and don't have a seastead to start our libertarian government up proper.
you have misunderstood how realization of capital gains works in the united states and similar tax systems. while it is true that if you buy or mine bitcoins you probably don't owe tax until you 'sell' them in most cases, 'sell' in this context basically means 'dispose of'. if you spend $1 to mine 1 coin and then use it to buy something worth $140, you have realized $139 in (capital) income at the time of your purchase.
the same would be true of stocks: if you bought GOOG at $400 in the past and trade it to someone for something worth $800 today, you have 'sold' it for $800 for tax purposes.
Stocks and currency are not the same. If you bought $100 of Euros and it appreciated and was worth $200 and then you spend them, you would owe no tax. As you as you consider bitcoins to be a foreign currency, you are ok.
Just buy gold with it directly.
April 05, 2013, 03:27:11 PM
My point is...either plan to pay the taxes on your BTC, become an outlaw, or go to prison...those are the only options!
Some outlaws pay taxes and stay out of jail.
April 05, 2013, 03:08:44 PM
I explained bitcoin to my accountant yesterday...he was very interested. I told him to wait a couple weeks before he looks into it more, otherwise he will get sucked in and be late getting taxes in for all his clients.
He told us to count all our sales as a regular income, and then later when we cash out to deal with capitol gains at that point.
He told us to count all our sales as a regular income, and then later when we cash out to deal with capitol gains at that point.
Everyone keeps talking about cashing out...I don't get it!
The only time you owe the IRS a dime is when you make money...meaning US DOLLARS!!!
If the whole idea of BTC is to create a new currency that's free market...why "cash out"? As soon as everyone cashes out, the government gains and BTC loses!
While the whole BTC theory and concept is great...the "cash out" mindset is what will ultimately keep it from ever succeeding. People just can't think outside of Dollars...at least not here in America!
When things are bought with btc, the IRS thugs consider that "cashing out" even though they never touched USDs.
Ya....that's what I was trying to warn. Buying "stuff" with BTC and then selling that "stuff" for USD is exactly the same as "cashing out" in the eyes of the IRS.
For BTC to succeed people will have to get out of the "cashing out" thinking. It has to become a currency that can stand on it's own and that's impossible as long as people still think in USD...and they will always think in USD.
BTC can never be what many of these folks think it will be. No matter what it's spent on, everything has value in USD that can be measured by the Government.
Anything you legally buy has a paper trail that ultimately leads back to you. The only way to avoid the tax man is by spending BTC on items "under the radar"...illegal merchandise!
My point is...either plan to pay the taxes on your BTC, become an outlaw, or go to prison...those are the only options!
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