Enjoy getting raided by the IRS for not reporting income and capital gains. - page 4.

Nemesis

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Quote from: Matthew N. Wright on April 04, 2013, 07:01:17 PM

Capital gains only apply when you *sell* bitcoins. Tell your friend that you're planning on spending them, and that there isn't an IRS dedicated to Bitcoins yet because we pay a network tax instead and don't have a seastead to start our libertarian government up proper.

really? go buy a house with btc (ofcourse seller accept btc), and see where the fun is when IRS raid your new house with tax evasion.

Its pretty clear, you're in Jap as a vagabond while rambling this nonsense.

marcus_of_augustus

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Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: Aseras on April 04, 2013, 08:56:15 PM

Quote from: ralree on April 04, 2013, 08:47:16 PM

Quote from: Aseras on April 04, 2013, 08:28:52 PM

Make sure you write off the value of the thousands of bitcoins you lost to pirate. I'm sure you can find a log of the transaction somewhere....

Actually, you can't write off losses on personal loans. Look it up before tax time!

It was theft. Deductible. You can deduct losses in Ponzi schemes.

Maybe, but I'm pretty sure you can claim back taxes previously paid on unrealised gains of the Poniz that turned out to be fabricated, I heard that Madoff's "investors" did.

Seems to be lots of these FUD-like thread topics appearing, maybe getting close to an interim top I wonder?

Aseras

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Quote from: ralree on April 04, 2013, 08:47:16 PM

Quote from: Aseras on April 04, 2013, 08:28:52 PM

Make sure you write off the value of the thousands of bitcoins you lost to pirate. I'm sure you can find a log of the transaction somewhere....

Actually, you can't write off losses on personal loans. Look it up before tax time!

It was theft. Deductible. You can deduct losses in Ponzi schemes.

ralree

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Activity: 518

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Manateeeeeeees

Quote from: unk on April 04, 2013, 08:14:31 PM

Quote from: Matthew N. Wright on April 04, 2013, 07:01:17 PM

Capital gains only apply when you *sell* bitcoins. Tell your friend that you're planning on spending them, and that there isn't an IRS dedicated to Bitcoins yet because we pay a network tax instead and don't have a seastead to start our libertarian government up proper.

you have misunderstood how realization of capital gains works in the united states and similar tax systems. while it is true that if you buy or mine bitcoins you probably don't owe tax until you 'sell' them in most cases, 'sell' in this context basically means 'dispose of'. if you spend $1 to mine 1 coin and then use it to buy something worth $140, you have realized $139 in (capital) income at the time of your purchase.

the same would be true of stocks: if you bought GOOG at $400 in the past and trade it to someone for something worth $800 today, you have 'sold' it for $800 for tax purposes.

This is correct. You realize the gain whether you spend it or trade it for fiat. The same goes for gold, silver, bacon, cheese, guns, etc. Technically, you have to report the fair market value as income upon receipt, and when you dispose of it, you have to report the gain.

Jobe7

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Now they are thinking what to do with me

Quote from: ralree on April 04, 2013, 08:43:52 PM

Quote from: klear on April 04, 2013, 06:37:41 PM

This is something my 'friend' said to me when discussing bitcoins, how do i(you) respond?

How do I respond? That I report all my income and capital gains. Why would anyone assume that I'd be a tax cheat for using cryptocoins? You have to report income.

Do you live in the UK? Because if you do, please let me know what HMRC's response is when you report your income in Bitcoin and that they need to tax your Bitcoin (without changing it to fiat).

Because it's taxable when you change it to fiat (as company/business earnings, though if you show its offset by fiat expenditure then HMRC will have trouble trying to tax you even a small amount).

But ye, seriously, let us know how they tax you, especially if they tax you in Bitcoin.

edit: I'm all for paying taxes, just need the system to accept my taxes in btc.

ralree

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Manateeeeeeees

Quote from: Aseras on April 04, 2013, 08:28:52 PM

Make sure you write off the value of the thousands of bitcoins you lost to pirate. I'm sure you can find a log of the transaction somewhere....

Actually, you can't write off losses on personal loans. Look it up before tax time!

ralree

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Manateeeeeeees

Quote from: bg002h on April 04, 2013, 08:33:35 PM

Paying taxes on bitcoin is likely to raise flags. Once they know what you're involved with Bitcoin, they're gonna presume you're underreporting and audit you.

What? You don't even have to specify exactly what the gain was from. Just put "Services Rendered" on the Schedule D. Also, if you can't even cite a single instance of this happening, you're just a total FUDmaster here.

ralree

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Manateeeeeeees

Quote from: klear on April 04, 2013, 06:37:41 PM

This is something my 'friend' said to me when discussing bitcoins, how do i(you) respond?

How do I respond? That I report all my income and capital gains. Why would anyone assume that I'd be a tax cheat for using cryptocoins? You have to report income.

bg002h

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I outlived my lifetime membership:)

Paying taxes on bitcoin is likely to raise flags. Once they know what you're involved with Bitcoin, they're gonna presume you're underreporting and audit you.

Aseras

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Make sure you write off the value of the thousands of bitcoins you lost to pirate. I'm sure you can find a log of the transaction somewhere....

Mike Christ

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Quote from: hawkeye on April 04, 2013, 08:24:55 PM

Quote from: Razick on April 04, 2013, 08:18:30 PM

Bitcoin is just like cash.

Not to governments as far as I know. None of them have said they recognise bitcoin as cash, to my knowledge.

Well, we recognize them as cash, so the government needs to pick up the pace.

hawkeye

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Quote from: Razick on April 04, 2013, 08:18:30 PM

Bitcoin is just like cash.

Not to governments as far as I know. None of them have said they recognise bitcoin as cash, to my knowledge.

Razick

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I am anti-tax, and I believe that we should work hard to get them lowered and reformed to be more fair, but you should pay them nonetheless. Bitcoin is just like cash.

unk

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Quote from: Matthew N. Wright on April 04, 2013, 07:01:17 PM

Capital gains only apply when you *sell* bitcoins. Tell your friend that you're planning on spending them, and that there isn't an IRS dedicated to Bitcoins yet because we pay a network tax instead and don't have a seastead to start our libertarian government up proper.

you have misunderstood how realization of capital gains works in the united states and similar tax systems. while it is true that if you buy or mine bitcoins you probably don't owe tax until you 'sell' them in most cases, 'sell' in this context basically means 'dispose of'. if you spend $1 to mine 1 coin and then use it to buy something worth $140, you have realized $139 in (capital) income at the time of your purchase.

the same would be true of stocks: if you bought GOOG at $400 in the past and trade it to someone for something worth $800 today, you have 'sold' it for $800 for tax purposes.

muyuu

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Better yet. Don't cash out.

Use your coins in the BTC-economy. Win-win.

farlack

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Quote from: Minor Miner on April 04, 2013, 06:58:06 PM

Quote from: farlack on April 04, 2013, 06:40:24 PM

I think right now capital gains is only 20%
Tell them..

Who cares? I'll pay it.

Every $100 profit, you pay $20..

Who cares? Pay it.

Write off your electric, internet, home office space (rent), computers, websites etc.

that is long term cap gains (position held over 12 months). less than that is full income tax. And it is not 20%. It is 20% plus 3.8% for the obamacare surtax. But if you make less than a certain amount it will be LOWER.

Really? Wow, even better, you don't start paying taxes for a long shot, I think I didn't start paying taxes for 10.7k profit.

Matthew N. Wright

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Quote from: Minor Miner on April 04, 2013, 07:16:40 PM

Quote from: deathcode on April 04, 2013, 07:15:31 PM

Tell this to your friend:

1) I put Fiat on MTGox
2) I buy bitcoin
3) I transfer bitcoin to my wallet
4) I sell bitcoin on craigslist for current price + 10%
5) I keep cash without the IRS ever knowing what's up!

footnote: clearly you can't go and buy a 2.3 million dollar house after you do that a few hundred times, but if you're wise you can always blend the money into your regular income (if you have any), if all you have it the bitcoin gig and you made a shit load of money, what the hell are you doing in the US still?

I have been doing that but with bitcoin getting so high now, I am worried about mom finding the cash stash and narcing me out.

Why would anyone admit to tax evasion to their coworkers or friends who are actively accusing bitcoiners of tax evasion?

Minor Miner

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Be A Digital Miner

Quote from: deathcode on April 04, 2013, 07:15:31 PM

Tell this to your friend:

1) I put Fiat on MTGox
2) I buy bitcoin
3) I transfer bitcoin to my wallet
4) I sell bitcoin on craigslist for current price + 10%
5) I keep cash without the IRS ever knowing what's up!

footnote: clearly you can't go and buy a 2.3 million dollar house after you do that a few hundred times, but if you're wise you can always blend the money into your regular income (if you have any), if all you have it the bitcoin gig and you made a shit load of money, what the hell are you doing in the US still?

I have been doing that but with bitcoin getting so high now, I am worried about mom finding the cash stash and narcing me out.

deathcode

copper member

Activity: 1428

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Tell this to your friend:

1) I put Fiat on MTGox
2) I buy bitcoin
3) I transfer bitcoin to my wallet
4) I sell bitcoin on craigslist for current price + 10%
5) I keep cash without the IRS ever knowing what's up!

footnote: clearly you can't go and buy a 2.3 million dollar house after you do that a few hundred times, but if you're wise you can always blend the money into your regular income (if you have any), if all you have it the bitcoin gig and you made a shit load of money, what the hell are you doing in the US still?

muyuu

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Quote from: Elwar on April 04, 2013, 06:50:41 PM

I believe I can speak for all Bitcoin users in saying that we will abide by all government rules and regulations and will be paying all of our highly justifiable taxes to the kings of our era who so mercilessly allow us to bath in the glory of their great countries.

Any IRS hero who happens to be reading this need not worry one bit about our loyalty to dutifully pleasure them with our money in our desire to reward their greatness.

I believe that should clear it all up.

I'm stealing this Cheesy

Topic: Enjoy getting raided by the IRS for not reporting income and capital gains. - page 4. (Read 6814 times)