Error or scam with Bitcoin ETF news?

zasad@

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on October 29, 2023, 10:10:26 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on October 29, 2023, 03:58:18 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on October 28, 2023, 09:27:22 PM

@zasad@. Uncle Gary declines to outline their roadmap for approval, however, we can be quite certain that because of political connections and maybe bribery, Blackrock's ETF application will be approved first on iShares' final scheduled deadline on March 15, 2024. This is 2 months before the halving and this will be very good timing to begin the institutional pump to the new all time bitcoin high on 2025 or 2026.

Bribery is in third world countries, but in America it is lobbying for interests Grin

I always try to think not like the crowd. If the spot ETF is approved in the next 2-3 months, then the price of Bitcoin may rise. I will sell my bitcoins. In this scenario, I will see a manipulation that they want to feed the hamsters with bitcoins, and then there will be a dump in the price of bitcoin and a transfer of liquidity into altcoins.
But if the spot ETF is approved close to the halving, then my scenario is wrong.

Bribery will take different forms, however, corruption will always stay in politics. How do you think the corporate interests get what they want if lobbying does not work? How do they pressure politicians and bureaucrats to do their bidding? Why do you also think there are powerful people who have politicians and judges in their pockets like nickles and dimes?

I agree that bribery has always existed in politics, but we also know from history how it ended for these countries. When a country's policies are absurd and begin to work against the interests of its country and its people, this will lead to great conflicts within the country.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: zasad@ on October 29, 2023, 03:58:18 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on October 28, 2023, 09:27:22 PM

@zasad@. Uncle Gary declines to outline their roadmap for approval, however, we can be quite certain that because of political connections and maybe bribery, Blackrock's ETF application will be approved first on iShares' final scheduled deadline on March 15, 2024. This is 2 months before the halving and this will be very good timing to begin the institutional pump to the new all time bitcoin high on 2025 or 2026.

Bribery is in third world countries, but in America it is lobbying for interests Grin

I always try to think not like the crowd. If the spot ETF is approved in the next 2-3 months, then the price of Bitcoin may rise. I will sell my bitcoins. In this scenario, I will see a manipulation that they want to feed the hamsters with bitcoins, and then there will be a dump in the price of bitcoin and a transfer of liquidity into altcoins.
But if the spot ETF is approved close to the halving, then my scenario is wrong.

Bribery will take different forms, however, corruption will always stay in politics. How do you think the corporate interests get what they want if lobbying does not work? How do they pressure politicians and bureaucrats to do their bidding? Why do you also think there are powerful people who have politicians and judges in their pockets like nickles and dimes?

coolcoinz

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It's like with everything in the Internet.
People want freedom of information, no censorship, but they demand action when they fall for fake news and scams.

You should all learn to filter information and to think before you act on them.
Bitcoin allows you to send money anywhere almost instantly, without any censorship or restrictions.
You want to finance a sect, you can. You want to pay a prostitute, you can. You want to help a terrorist organization, you can.
There's a catch though. All transactions are irreversible.

Someone tells you they're your grandpa George who lost his money and is stuck on vacation in Africa and you believe him and send him some bitcoin, you're a sucker. No returns!
Someone tells you to buy their shitcoin and you turn your bitcoin into Luna or some other worthless crap, you're a sucker.

That said, people who bought bitcoin when they heard that fake news did well, unless they had a levered short at 31k Wink

Kemarit

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on October 28, 2023, 09:27:22 PM

@zasad@. Uncle Gary declines to outline their roadmap for approval, however, we can be quite certain that because of political connections and maybe bribery, Blackrock's ETF application will be approved first on iShares' final scheduled deadline on March 15, 2024. This is 2 months before the halving and this will be very good timing to begin the institutional pump to the new all time bitcoin high on 2025 or 2026.

I wouldn't say it's bribery though, but when this big companies like BlackRock with trillions of dollars behind it, it's hard to deny that they have huge influence not just in the financial sector of the US, but in every facets of society.

And for sure Uncle Gary has been feeling the pressures already, going to Congress and facing a backlash and now huge companies knocking on his door to get this Spot Bitcoin ETF approval.

And for this reason that we all have been speculating that a imminent approval could happen, and it's just a matter of time. Might be better if it will coincide with the halving as it will be the news that will fuel the price of Bitcoin to reach $100,000 minimum in the next bull run.

zasad@

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on October 28, 2023, 09:27:22 PM

@zasad@. Uncle Gary declines to outline their roadmap for approval, however, we can be quite certain that because of political connections and maybe bribery, Blackrock's ETF application will be approved first on iShares' final scheduled deadline on March 15, 2024. This is 2 months before the halving and this will be very good timing to begin the institutional pump to the new all time bitcoin high on 2025 or 2026.

Bribery is in third world countries, but in America it is lobbying for interests Grin

I always try to think not like the crowd. If the spot ETF is approved in the next 2-3 months, then the price of Bitcoin may rise. I will sell my bitcoins. In this scenario, I will see a manipulation that they want to feed the hamsters with bitcoins, and then there will be a dump in the price of bitcoin and a transfer of liquidity into altcoins.
But if the spot ETF is approved close to the halving, then my scenario is wrong.

bbc.reporter

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@zasad@. Uncle Gary declines to outline their roadmap for approval, however, we can be quite certain that because of political connections and maybe bribery, Blackrock's ETF application will be approved first on iShares' final scheduled deadline on March 15, 2024. This is 2 months before the halving and this will be very good timing to begin the institutional pump to the new all time bitcoin high on 2025 or 2026.

zasad@

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https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2023/10/25/secs-gensler-wont-say-whats-next-with-bitcoin-etfs-after-grayscale-loss/
"U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) Chairman Gary Gensler declined to outline any of the agency’s plans for spot bitcoin exchange-traded funds (ETFs) on Wednesday, though his agency must now decide how to proceed after the courts demanded it erase its objection to Grayscale Investments’ application.
“Those are things that are in front of staff,” he said in response to questions from CoinDesk at a Securities Enforcement Forum event in Washington. He said he would “let that play out” and not pre-judge the situation before SEC staff makes recommendations to the five-member commission."

Kakmakr

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I think I have read somewhere that Cointelegraph investigated this and they found out that there were some Intern working there, that posted the unverified information. I think some Intern are made the scapegoat for this, because they will never admit that it was someone from their editorial staff that posted this.

In any way, mistakes were made and they were left red-faced and hopefully an incident like this will prevent something like this from happening again. Roll Eyes

coupable

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Quote from: joniboini on October 20, 2023, 08:43:05 PM

Quote from: coupable on October 19, 2023, 09:51:43 AM

But at the same time, I do not understand why news sources that publish false information are exempt from legal accountability. There is supposed to be a regulatory framework for the activity of these institutions, on the basis of which they gain part of their legitimacy. The news currently circulating does not indicate at all that those sources can be held responsible in any way.

Is there really no law in the US that can hold them accountable for doing terrible journalistic work? My search related to fake news usually ends up with information about defamation lawsuits. I don't think people can sue news agencies for that if they are sharing misinformation not related to any person. CMIIW.

As long as there is no complainant, the tracking procedures remain suspended. In the most extreme cases, if there are legal repercussions, the magazine can cite several reasons to dismiss the accusation.
It is true that the spread of false news was the cause of confusion in the market, but the greatest responsibility remains for the people who are quickly affected by the news and do not take enough time to take precautions. Relying on any news site and trusting everything it offers is in itself a reckless move.

Kemarit

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And it's going to be very interesting of someone for Cointelegraph makes a trade out of this news and then makes a lot of money? It's hard to proved though, but if there is one, then obviously this is what we call manipulation at the highest.

But I don't think that someone can be proven guilty and then sent to jail.

Another example though how the state of crypto journalism, this so called crypto outlets, they themselves doesn't have even access or someone rouge inside has accessed to their official account. It means that their security is also poor.

In any case this is what their Post Mortem report says:

https://cointelegraph.com/news/clarification-sharing-false-spot-bitcoin-etf-news

Fiatless

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Quote from: tbct_mt2 on October 18, 2023, 10:20:16 AM

I did not read news from Cointelegraph like 3 or 4 years. That website is full of shit and their articles are very low quality. It is very first websites I knew and very often visited to read news but it's my past practice.

I hope with this fake news, some more people will recognize the quality of Cointelegraph and say goodbye with it. They can read news on Coindesk or just become a member of Bitcointalk to read news and some insightful discussions.

If they are unable to assess what is fake news, Bitcointalk members can help them.

This is a careless and reckless journalism. For a well-known news outlet like Cointelegraph to give such out such a piece of sensitive information it turns out to be fake. This has shown that they have been giving out fake news to the public for a long time. I always read news from the site but this is a sign that they are not reliable.

Quote from: coupable on October 18, 2023, 04:12:36 PM

It is truly unfortunate that there are those who have been reported to have lost large sums of money as a result of the spread of false news, as it was announced that one of the whales lost $49,000 worth of money after he bought 20.5 bitcoins at a price of $613,201 and then quickly sold it less than 10 minutes later for barely $563,970. Of course, there are many who lost varying amounts of money, and we do not know who they are.
The magazine that caused these losses did not even bother to apologize to these people since it has no criminal responsibility.
https://twitter.com/lookonchain/status/1713920641521660232?s=20
https://coingape.com/whales-quick-bitcoin-buy-on-fake-etf-news-ends-in-loss/

SEC's message was brief but very informative. If you want to get any information from any institution, the agency's website, verified social media handle or a signed document from them would be the valid source. Social media is the worst place to get information to base your decision on.

stompix

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Quote from: joniboini on October 20, 2023, 08:43:05 PM

Quote from: stompix on October 20, 2023, 10:56:42 AM

They are not, but with a twist!
The problem is in proving they are at fault for that!

What is the name of the law that governs this? Sounds a bit similar to the defamation law above, but I'm not sure if we're referring to the same thiing or not.

I can only speak from a EU point of view, in this case, it's under misinformation.
Depending on where you reside it can be punishable with a fine or not at all, under EU regulation it's the Digital Act but it has not been made into a directive so, it still comes down to local laws till 2025..

If you were to take it to court under market manipulation, then it's directive 57, but with a problem as this is the only paragraph covering and it implies collusion from a legal entity and that's a 2004 definition that would not cover crypto trading as a financial regulated market.

Quote

disseminating information through the media, including the internet, or by any other means, which gives false or misleading signals as to the supply of, demand for, or price of a financial instrument, or a related spot commodity contract, or secures the price of one or several financial instruments or a related spot commodity contract at an abnormal or artificial level, where the persons who made the dissemination derive for themselves or for another person an advantage or profit from the dissemination of the information in question; or

You have to prove their involvement, you have to prove their financial gain, you have to prove collusion and intention, and only if found guilty in a criminal case open to recoup losses.

TLDR, nothing is going to happen! Undecided

zasad@

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Quote from: joniboini on October 20, 2023, 08:43:05 PM

Quote from: coupable on October 19, 2023, 09:51:43 AM

But at the same time, I do not understand why news sources that publish false information are exempt from legal accountability. There is supposed to be a regulatory framework for the activity of these institutions, on the basis of which they gain part of their legitimacy. The news currently circulating does not indicate at all that those sources can be held responsible in any way.

Is there really no law in the US that can hold them accountable for doing terrible journalistic work? My search related to fake news usually ends up with information about defamation lawsuits. I don't think people can sue news agencies for that if they are sharing misinformation not related to any person. CMIIW.

I guess the only way to solve this is to stop relying on terrible journalistic websites or read at least three independent sources before you assume the information is legit. In an ideal world, Cointelegraph or other websites would die quickly after they share misinformation like this.

Quote from: stompix on October 20, 2023, 10:56:42 AM

They are not, but with a twist!
The problem is in proving they are at fault for that!

What is the name of the law that governs this? Sounds a bit similar to the defamation law above, but I'm not sure if we're referring to the same thiing or not.

I am sure that fake news, which is printed based on a post from an unknown Twitter account, and slander are two different things.
Since the news was about the SEC, their lawyers should file a lawsuit.
But I think it will be impossible to prove losses on a crypto exchange due to some article.

Yamane_Keto

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Shouldn't the social media team who published false articles from Cointelegraph be held accountable? The argument that the X account is a scam and the platform has followers is considered flimsy. Can an article writer not distinguish between Twitter accounts, and can this be considered manipulation?
If we were in the stock market, things would be more serious, but it is a lesson to verify the source of the news, especially since most of the news sites that cover Bitcoin news are transmitted from each other.

joniboini

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Quote from: coupable on October 19, 2023, 09:51:43 AM

But at the same time, I do not understand why news sources that publish false information are exempt from legal accountability. There is supposed to be a regulatory framework for the activity of these institutions, on the basis of which they gain part of their legitimacy. The news currently circulating does not indicate at all that those sources can be held responsible in any way.

Is there really no law in the US that can hold them accountable for doing terrible journalistic work? My search related to fake news usually ends up with information about defamation lawsuits. I don't think people can sue news agencies for that if they are sharing misinformation not related to any person. CMIIW.

I guess the only way to solve this is to stop relying on terrible journalistic websites or read at least three independent sources before you assume the information is legit. In an ideal world, Cointelegraph or other websites would die quickly after they share misinformation like this.

Quote from: stompix on October 20, 2023, 10:56:42 AM

They are not, but with a twist!
The problem is in proving they are at fault for that!

What is the name of the law that governs this? Sounds a bit similar to the defamation law above, but I'm not sure if we're referring to the same thiing or not.

stompix

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Quote from: coupable on October 19, 2023, 09:51:43 AM

But at the same time, I do not understand why news sources that publish false information are exempt from legal accountability.

They are not, but with a twist!
The problem is in proving they are at fault for that!
You have to prove they have caused you financial loss, you have to prove they have done it intentionally and more importantly, at least in our jurisdiction you also have to prove that the said piece of news was the only one that caused this independently, so in trading is almost impossible, unlike defamation. How in the world are you going to prove that the said article caused you and multiple others to buy and sell when there is a clear disclaimer on both news and exchange platforms about volatility caused by events?

We all know it was the case, the judge knows, but you can't prove it beyond the reason of doubt so nobody is going to sue them!

The only thing that would have a chance if a shareholder would try to do it, as the news was specifically targeted at one said company and claim losses by stock fluctuation. Otherwise, you're just like an oil trader trying to sue a newspaper about news that "might" have influenced oil prices.
It's complicated, it's ambiguous but, it is what it is and right now we're helpless !

There were far worse cases without a better outcome, like one fake tweet and 20 billion wiped out:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/11/14/twitter-fake-eli-lilly/

zasad@

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Quote from: tbct_mt2 on October 20, 2023, 06:04:00 AM

Quote from: FatFork on October 19, 2023, 04:37:06 AM

Yeah, it's true that fake news can slip through the cracks sometimes, even on reputable sites. I kinda think a lot of times it's not some evil plan but more they just dropped the ball on checking facts. But in this case I'd say Cointelegraph should take the heat. They've been around forever and are one of the OGs in the industry so they gotta know spreading fake stuff like this can hurt. Whether they meant it or not, it happened and that's got consequences and people can lose money if they trade based on bad info. Cointelegraph should've been way more careful here, regardless of why it happened.

I agree that mistakes can be made as we are all human but Cointelegraph has history of low quality articles and they can not say they are innocent by spreading low quality, unverified news that cause FUD on the market. Many people will lose money partially because of news from Cointelelgraph. It's worse if those news are originally from Cointelegraph.

They can not say they are irresponsible for all those consequences from news released on their website that is big enough to make massive effects in cryptocurrency market. People (investors and traders) are responsible for their capital management and surely mainly responsible for their profit or loss but as said Cointelegraph partially has their responsibility.

I have another theory about this.
At the time of publication of the fake news, there were market statistics that the number of longs on exchanges was higher than the number of shorts. But this turned out to be untrue. When the number of shorts became high and it became profitable for the manipulator to take away margin positions, the price flew sharply upward on the fake news. I'm sure it would have happened anyway.

Previously, the manipulator bought coins cheaply and made money on pumps; now the manipulator makes money by liquidating margin positions. According to analysts, the losses amounted to about 0.5 Billion dollars.

tbct_mt2

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Quote from: FatFork on October 19, 2023, 04:37:06 AM

Yeah, it's true that fake news can slip through the cracks sometimes, even on reputable sites. I kinda think a lot of times it's not some evil plan but more they just dropped the ball on checking facts. But in this case I'd say Cointelegraph should take the heat. They've been around forever and are one of the OGs in the industry so they gotta know spreading fake stuff like this can hurt. Whether they meant it or not, it happened and that's got consequences and people can lose money if they trade based on bad info. Cointelegraph should've been way more careful here, regardless of why it happened.

I agree that mistakes can be made as we are all human but Cointelegraph has history of low quality articles and they can not say they are innocent by spreading low quality, unverified news that cause FUD on the market. Many people will lose money partially because of news from Cointelelgraph. It's worse if those news are originally from Cointelegraph.

They can not say they are irresponsible for all those consequences from news released on their website that is big enough to make massive effects in cryptocurrency market. People (investors and traders) are responsible for their capital management and surely mainly responsible for their profit or loss but as said Cointelegraph partially has their responsibility.

coupable

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Quote from: stompix on October 19, 2023, 03:35:20 AM

Quote from: coupable on October 18, 2023, 04:12:36 PM

It is truly unfortunate that there are those who have been reported to have lost large sums of money as a result of the spread of false news, as it was announced that one of the whales lost $49,000 worth of money after he bought 20.5 bitcoins at a price of $613,201 and then quickly sold it less than 10 minutes later for barely $563,970.

Another example of the reason why I say trading is gambling, you basically trade on gambling on the effects and if the news is true at all, and when your whole thing is based on twitter posts, then look a the outcome.
It's kind of ironic traders all the time talk about TA and all the indicators and then at the first instance, they get recked by a tweet.

I agree with you that trading is a form of gambling. No, it is perhaps one of the most dangerous types because it often requires betting large amounts to obtain a relatively average profit margin.
But at the same time, I do not understand why news sources that publish false information are exempt from legal accountability. There is supposed to be a regulatory framework for the activity of these institutions, on the basis of which they gain part of their legitimacy. The news currently circulating does not indicate at all that those sources can be held responsible in any way.

FatFork

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Quote from: Poker Player on October 18, 2023, 10:04:15 PM

We can't know for sure if it was planned but I am inclined to think not, as it is not uncommon for fake news to slip through, sometimes in a whole range of media, propagated by a news agency. In this case it's a botched Cointelegraph, which as said is not characterized by an extreme quality of content, so the hypothesis that seems more likely to me is that they simply slipped in the fake news.

The bad thing is that there were many short-term traders who lost money with it.

Yeah, it's true that fake news can slip through the cracks sometimes, even on reputable sites. I kinda think a lot of times it's not some evil plan but more they just dropped the ball on checking facts. But in this case I'd say Cointelegraph should take the heat. They've been around forever and are one of the OGs in the industry so they gotta know spreading fake stuff like this can hurt. Whether they meant it or not, it happened and that's got consequences and people can lose money if they trade based on bad info. Cointelegraph should've been way more careful here, regardless of why it happened.

Topic: Error or scam with Bitcoin ETF news? (Read 319 times)