Topic: ETH price soaring. Are you going to move some BTC into ETH? - page 80. (Read 198829 times)

Dude, Bitfinex is the first that jumped in and many others will do the same because they are bailing out of Bitcoin, they are at war. I'm talking about Coinbase, Circle, Xapo, etc. They won't jump ship in the next weeks but if Ethereum continues to rise and Bitcoin keeps the same stubborn attitude, they will be losing money and that's all it matters. They are not fanboys that think it's Bitcoin or nothing.

Starting next week you can buy ETH with fiat so expect MANY exchanges and new investors flocking in, that's a fact. Many people invested a lot of money in BTC but never handle a wallet or authorization key. BTC is actually holding ETH back in my opinion. When investors can get ETH with fiat at many exchanges and sites, ETH will rise to $50 or even more.

Here is an interesting comment from R3cev:

"At R3, our team of engineers are in constant collaboration with the financial services professionals at our 42 member banks.  Most of our work entails marrying requirements with development execution to satisfy the standards of our consortium.

Though we cannot claim a monopoly on expertise in distributed ledgers or capital markets, we have begun to eliminate certain approaches to any financial-grade software solutions. Upon examining the distributed ledger landscape, we’ve found that the most saliently unsuitable application of distributed ledger technology is also one of the most popular: colored coins.

Colored coins are Bitcoin transactions which carry particular meanings (...) and replicate the “move fast and break things” attitude common to Silicon Valley rather than being designed in a way that best addresses the problem they seek to solve. The multiple hacks on Bitcoin exchanges through the years attest (...) the inadequacy of this approach when millions, let alone billions, of dollars are at stake."

Read the full report @ http://r3cev.com/blog/

CONCLUSION: No banks will ever use BTC but will more likely develop their "in-house" blockchain technology & companies like R3cev & Ripple will try to assist banks standardised their collaboration.

Ethereum can of course be a currency - anything can. The Euro is a currency even though Mr Draghi announced yesterday it was formally worthless by offering to pay people to borrow it.

Maybe what you "still don't get" is why researchers spent 20 years trying to come up with something like bitcoin in the first place. Up until 2009, there was no "gold" analogue on electronic networks - an uncounterfeitable token that could be directly transferred peer to peer in the absence of a trusted counterparty. The bitcoin phenomenon broke that duck.

The best that can be said about Ethereum in terms of store of value metaphors is that it's a leaky hot-air balloon. The "hot air" comes from the speculative expectation of accrued value. The "leaky" part comes from 2 sources:

[1] - the huge emission trajectory

[2] - the diverse range of investment targets that will be created by the ecosystem (i.e you're going to have to decide if you want to invest in the assets or the tokens and, although the capitalisation of the tokens will boost the value of the assets, the capitalisation of assets may not to the same for the tokens since many or most of them will be blockchain independent)


If Ether goes to $100, it will only do so if Bitcoin goes to $6000 IMHO. People are not trading the ETH/$USD market, they're trading BTC ratio who's trajectory is a whole different prospect from what you're citing. The bitcoin reward is getting close to halving. Ethereum, on the other hand is about to spew another 20 million coins into the supply over the next 12 months, shrinking your holding as a percentage of the coin supply by 28%.

What will people do in this circumstance ? One of three things:

[1] - use it to build assets, companies and blockchain-based products who's value DOES continue to accrue regardless of the value of Ether tokens

[2] - dump it into a true, store-of-value bearer token such as bitcoin (or equivalent such as Dash where it even earns a return)

[3] - hold Ethereum tokens, do nothing with them and watch them lose value against Bitcoin (even though they may gain value against the $USD)

...and that's exactly as was intended by the designers  

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-blockchain-2016-3

The big elephants are aware of and talking/testing blockchains, smart contracts, PoS etc. for elimination of their back offices. No-one can speculate that any existing digital currencies would be a part of this future; they likely want and will create their own chains. It only goes to validate the usefulness of Ethereum over other digital currencies in that these mechanisms have already been thought out and planned into it from the beginning.

Those who don't run a bank or brokerage may want access to the same capabilities, and it appears Ethereum is the only game in town to match.

FWIW. 

Few altcoins will overpass Bitcoin in the long term.
No  intelligent person in the world believes that there will be no more interesting SOFTWARE in the future.

Don't get too excited. This is how Bitcoiners used to talk about bitcoin...

I can't believe "Bitcoiners" are still "on the fence" and talking about Ethereum is not a currency. I have literally read that some seconds ago. Not it's not a currency, Ethereum can perfectly thrive at the side of Bitcoin. However, what you still don't get after Hearn made it pretty clear, is that Bitcoin is also NOT a currency, it has failed as a payment system, it's a complete joke.

That doesn't mean it's the end, but it's clear useless if the intention was to pay for things with Bitcoin, no adoption whatsoever. Now as a digital way to store wealth, kinda like digital gold, yes, it has proven itself over time, it works even if the transactions are slow or has become "centralized" with just a few big players calling the shots.

Ethereum can go easily to $100 this year, $50 is a very real chance now not. People were betting if it would hit 1 Billion, lol...the bet should be more like if they can surpass Bitcoin market cap by next year. ETH has "only" 72 million with more coming each year after it stops. It was made to be highly divisible so of course they aimed for the sky on this, if it ever gets adopted and companies, banks and institutions around the world transactions and contracts would cost in Weis (like Satoshis) not $50 or $200...

Why get excited, do you think they are going to accept Ether? Losing a crypto from such a large retailer is not a good sign for anyone.

ahh right 

That is very old news. Microsoft only accept the bitcoin in the US store anyway. That will not affect the adoptoin of bitcoin.

lol Microsoft pulled accepting Bitcoin 

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/microsoft-store-doesnt-accept-bitcoin

Btw, that site is complete shit. The bet is still open, despite clearly being resolved. Not only that, they seem to be pulling a Gox - they've suspended all payments indefinitely (but are apparently fine with accepting deposits).

True though it depends on how you read this. One hand it might imply they are wary, but on the other it also just says they are tempted.



Absolutely. I'm perhaps the wrong person to be reading this as I'm a value investor who is bullish on Ether qua blockchain technology rather than as a currency. I also very much exist firmly in the bitcoin only economy at this point with 'trading' (I would barely call it that, I just outright bought Ether a while back and have little interest in selling, but I am curious what the market dynamics might tell me indirectly). I fully expect people to pull out as we get close to 20USD - if that happens, of course. I figure most of us with volume got in early enough that there is not much to lose even if it drops all the way down to a dollar or two.



I understand your point, but I guess this is a problem with the all-or-nothing people. I don't understand why one would not have both Bitcoin and Ether. In terms of value right now that's quite simply in what they can pull from their Bitcoin cut-and-run down the road. I agree that many people seem to not quite understand what they own when they own Ether.

And yes, no harm in getting a piece of it (I have my handful of DASH just in case).

good post. sanity.

you mean this?;

http://themerkle.com/eth-price-goes-up-since-bitfinex-announcement/

Well, Minecache says...


But in fact, if you listen to professionals with reputations, money and businesses at stake you'll get a far more sober view of Ethereum tokens as a viable investment instrument.

Notice I said Ethereum "tokens" - not the Ethereum economy as a whole. Thats because the tokens themselves are very different in nature from, say, Bitcoin tokens. Ethereum tokens are there to serve a technology function on the blockchain, not as a universal monetary unit.

Thats why Bitfinex says:



...a back handed endorsement if ever there was one.

It's also why Simon Dixon says "Ether is more like Fiat" at this point in his interview with Max Keiser.

The other thing you've got to note is that Ether is priced in Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not priced in Ether. What that means is that when people are getting excited about the price of their ETH holding's, they're actually excited because they're gaining Bitcoin, not Ether. Thats a bit of unconscious psychology that manifests from trading in a reserve currency denomination. Profits will be taken at some point and that will turn Ether toxic for a while just as happened with all the other assets that were going to supercede bitcoin such as Litecoin, Peercoin, NxT, Bitshares etc.

As Simon Dixon says, no doubt it will be successful and the question isn't whether it will accrue in value. The question is whether it will accrue in value against bitcoin which shows no signs of losing its reserve status. For me Ethereum is a technology and bitcoin is money. As such, one might have a look at what technology corporations have larger marketcaps than their country's monetary base - or even one sixth of the monetary base (which is where Ethereum is at the moment).

Since ETH is not a bearer token, it cannot replace bitcoin in that market - plain and simple. Also, it may be getting big investment but where is than investment going ? Not into the value of the tokens but the value of the assets that will run on that blockchain. Neither will the tokens have value in the way that company shares do because corporate shares give you influence in a way that smart contract blockchain tokens do not.

So if those tokens to not derive their value from a bearer property and not directly from ecosystem investment (at least not as directly as bitcoin tokens do) then where's the value coming from ?

Right now it's coming from speculative hysteria - and that's the subtext of that Bitfinex announcement. (But there's plenty volume so they're saying w.t.f. - lets get a piece of it    )

i doubt there will be more fiat going in now it's the weekend.

it's all down to BTC, XRP, and LTC holders to decide if they want to take the chance that they're not going to be the ones dancing around the chair that gets taken away when the music stops.

i'm not sure the price will go up or down that much in the near future. i predict an impasse. the change will come if the BTC miners decide enough is enough and it's time to bring forward their plans for the halving effect to return the market to 'stability'.

Don't be cryptic.

Why not convert 55LTC this week to Ether? It's not a huge loss either way and is a nice small bet.

I did moved some BTC into ETH and still holing.