Pages:
Author

Topic: Ethereum Reduces Block Reward | ETH GPU Mining Will No Longer Be Profitable - page 4. (Read 8775 times)

member
Activity: 93
Merit: 41
...
the difficulty bomb has begun to take effect, so you can expect at least 10% faster blocks (2 second average) after fork.
...

Looking at the "Average Block Time" chart over at etherscan shows that the difficulty bomb hasn't started yet. Our average block times are still around 14-15 seconds unlike 30 seconds last Oct-Nov.
...

hrmm I thought it was to be between 12-13 seconds. just rechecked the white paper and can not find this value any where.
...

Even Gavin Wood's "yellow paper" (https://github.com/ethereum/yellowpaper) doesn't explicitly refer to a 15 second block time. Neither does the official Geth implementation code (https://github.com/ethereum/go-ethereum/).

Both just refer to an allowed range of 9 to 17 seconds for the block time where no difficulty adjustment is needed (excluding the "ice age" exponential increase). It can be seen in the yellow paper in equation 44 on p.6; as well as implemented in the Geth code in lines 339-354 of "consensus.go" (https://github.com/ethereum/go-ethereum/blob/master/consensus/ethash/consensus.go).

---

The "ice age" difficulty addition can be seen by following the formulas used in the paper (and code): take the block number, subtract 3 million ("ice age" delay in Byzantium), divide by a hundred thousand, subtract two from that, and raise 2 to that result.

So, for example: during the ~30 second block times seen mid-Oct 2017 before the "ice age" was delayed (ie. the subtract 3 million from block number step above), block numbers were in the 4.3 million range and thus had an "ice age" difficulty addition of 2^41. To get the resulting network difficulty increase from that, it can be approximated by multiplying this value by 700: so around ~1.5 petahash of network difficulty due to the "ice age" effect during mid-Oct (note: this is network difficulty, not network hashrate).

Once the "ice age" delay was implemented by subtracting 3 million from the block number in the Byzantium implementation, we can see the resulting drop of that ~1.5 petahash from the network difficulty after mid-Oct.

Right now, with the block number at around the 6.3 million mark, the current Byzantium "ice age" delay code would mean the network difficulty increase is only around ~1.5 terahash (ie. 6.3 million less 3 million, divide by 100k, subtract two, raise 2 to result => 2^31, times 700 to approximate network difficulty increase). Since the total difficulty is already around 3 petahash, the "ice age" effect currently only has a small-ish effect.

So, when the Constantinople "ice age" delay goes into effect (ie. subtract 5 million, instead of 3 million, from block number) I don't think removal of the current ~1.5 terahash "ice age" difficulty would put much of a dent in the current 3 petahash total network difficulty.
newbie
Activity: 39
Merit: 0
Quote

Actually its implemented already, i have been a long term holder/miner of this coin and im proud where the BCI team is headed.
sr. member
Activity: 430
Merit: 253
VeganAcademy
such a doom and gloom post.

profits will diminish.

the difficulty bomb has begun to take effect, so you can expect at least 10% faster blocks (2 second average) after fork.

plus due to the diminished block reward some farms hanging in the balance will be closing shop and selling their wares.

there are plenty of markets that will still be profitable with gpu's and E3's.

we're all on borrowed time anyways casper's POS was assumed implemented in full this time last year..

there is always classic for the holdouts if they care to adjust their philosophy to match where the money flows.

the block halving comment was interesting but its generally in 2-3 year intervals.. and dictated from genesis block. this is a bit more contreversial as the devs have some back and forth to decide how to move forward.

I like the decision, and I mine. its inportant not have have all your eggs in one basket as well as understanding perspective of the big picture.

Looking at the "Average Block Time" chart over at etherscan shows that the difficulty bomb hasn't started yet. Our average block times are still around 14-15 seconds unlike 30 seconds last Oct-Nov.

So this issuance wont be like last year where we get reduced rewards but faster block times, it will basically cut profits by 33%.

I also glanced over the hashrate chart and it seems like it's going down a little, I think last June we had this difficulty. However it could all still be variance.

hrmm I thought it was to be between 12-13 seconds. just rechecked the white paper and can not find this value any where.

stand corrected.

casper with 2 second blocks will be nice.
full member
Activity: 1148
Merit: 132
such a doom and gloom post.

profits will diminish.

the difficulty bomb has begun to take effect, so you can expect at least 10% faster blocks (2 second average) after fork.

plus due to the diminished block reward some farms hanging in the balance will be closing shop and selling their wares.

there are plenty of markets that will still be profitable with gpu's and E3's.

we're all on borrowed time anyways casper's POS was assumed implemented in full this time last year..

there is always classic for the holdouts if they care to adjust their philosophy to match where the money flows.

the block halving comment was interesting but its generally in 2-3 year intervals.. and dictated from genesis block. this is a bit more contreversial as the devs have some back and forth to decide how to move forward.

I like the decision, and I mine. its inportant not have have all your eggs in one basket as well as understanding perspective of the big picture.

Looking at the "Average Block Time" chart over at etherscan shows that the difficulty bomb hasn't started yet. Our average block times are still around 14-15 seconds unlike 30 seconds last Oct-Nov.

So this issuance wont be like last year where we get reduced rewards but faster block times, it will basically cut profits by 33%.

I also glanced over the hashrate chart and it seems like it's going down a little, I think last June we had this difficulty. However it could all still be variance.

BCI team implements ProgPow in a few weeks
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-btc-fork-bitfinex-bitcoin-interest-decentralized-savings-join-now-2616641

Its not variance , GPU miners are leaving, monero is same profit as ETH and they are forking asics and fpgas,

bitcoin Interest just did what the eth devs said could not be done int three months in two weeks :
BCI team did all this -
- Implemented a working stable Miner for AMD and Nividia for ProgPOW,
- built their own pool and solo stratum implementation
- Implemented ProgPOW on their block-chain and even rolled it back to block one to reduce the chain size and then re-synched all the old coins to the new chain in the first 850 blocks
-Deployed from testnet to production with new wallets and builds for the pool implementation, miners and stratum implemenation.

All this in a few weeks lol  , I though the ethereum devs were supposed to be the best in the business, youre telling they could not even have tweaked the ethhash algo to fork asics let alone
implemented ProgPow if a small team of 3-4 with the help of the OhGod team could do all this in a few weeks ? GTFO.

This is why the Ethereum is dropping in value , thier dev teams are not innovating anymore , or at least pushing the evelope i.e  getting things done
I'm a dev myself , I know there are delays and risks and such to update and upgrading code and co-dependent systems but its like they are sleep-walking right now, they are definatly not as hungry as they used to be
they sounded more like Finacial guys than developers in thier meetings more interested in monetary policy  that playing with new code and concepts like ProgPOW.

personally my 8GH is off eth and split between BCI and XMR,  XMR basically after power costs has been identical in profits to Eth , for a while now



legendary
Activity: 3808
Merit: 1723
such a doom and gloom post.

profits will diminish.

the difficulty bomb has begun to take effect, so you can expect at least 10% faster blocks (2 second average) after fork.

plus due to the diminished block reward some farms hanging in the balance will be closing shop and selling their wares.

there are plenty of markets that will still be profitable with gpu's and E3's.

we're all on borrowed time anyways casper's POS was assumed implemented in full this time last year..

there is always classic for the holdouts if they care to adjust their philosophy to match where the money flows.

the block halving comment was interesting but its generally in 2-3 year intervals.. and dictated from genesis block. this is a bit more contreversial as the devs have some back and forth to decide how to move forward.

I like the decision, and I mine. its inportant not have have all your eggs in one basket as well as understanding perspective of the big picture.

Looking at the "Average Block Time" chart over at etherscan shows that the difficulty bomb hasn't started yet. Our average block times are still around 14-15 seconds unlike 30 seconds last Oct-Nov.

So this issuance wont be like last year where we get reduced rewards but faster block times, it will basically cut profits by 33%.

I also glanced over the hashrate chart and it seems like it's going down a little, I think last June we had this difficulty. However it could all still be variance.
member
Activity: 176
Merit: 20
Knowledge is power
I think the time has come when gpu miners will mine only small speculative coins. Personally I stopped mining ETH since May and I didn't regret it.
full member
Activity: 294
Merit: 123
The World’s First Blockchain Core
Maybe this is a bad news to make ETH deeply down last days and GPU miners will not be able to get profit.
Perhaps I should wait for more big dumps to get some cheap ETH coins to invest instead of investing to GPU mining hardwares.
sr. member
Activity: 847
Merit: 383
Golden Rule:

He who has the gold makes the rules.
sr. member
Activity: 1414
Merit: 487
YouTube.com/VoskCoin
This decision has made me despise eth, i'm enjoying shorting it hope it burns.  

I'm not too knowable on the tech behind eth but wouldn't it make sense to make scale better then be fixated on POS and screwing miners?  The least they should do is change the algo and kick off the asics.

Seems like no one other than GPU miners and proponents of it understand that ASICs in this current market are simply bad. Bitmain has riddled the ecosystem with holes and pushed their BCH agenda massively . .
sr. member
Activity: 1414
Merit: 487
YouTube.com/VoskCoin
It could remain profitable after the block reward reduction but the price should increase at 400-500$ levels. Otherwise it's over for ETH gpu mining, it will be mined only by asic miners with access to really cheap electricity. BTW I dont see what the big deal is, there are plenty other ethash coins out there to mine.

You'll see the effect by the end of the year Cheesy
sr. member
Activity: 430
Merit: 253
VeganAcademy
such a doom and gloom post.

profits will diminish.

the difficulty bomb has begun to take effect, so you can expect at least 10% faster blocks (2 second average) after fork.

plus due to the diminished block reward some farms hanging in the balance will be closing shop and selling their wares.

there are plenty of markets that will still be profitable with gpu's and E3's.

we're all on borrowed time anyways casper's POS was assumed implemented in full this time last year..

there is always classic for the holdouts if they care to adjust their philosophy to match where the money flows.

the block halving comment was interesting but its generally in 2-3 year intervals.. and dictated from genesis block. this is a bit more contreversial as the devs have some back and forth to decide how to move forward.

I like the decision, and I mine. its inportant not have have all your eggs in one basket as well as understanding perspective of the big picture.
jr. member
Activity: 238
Merit: 3
mybe ETH will recover it's value during the year. It's a shame, what they decided to do.
member
Activity: 176
Merit: 20
Knowledge is power
It could remain profitable after the block reward reduction but the price should increase at 400-500$ levels. Otherwise it's over for ETH gpu mining, it will be mined only by asic miners with access to really cheap electricity. BTW I dont see what the big deal is, there are plenty other ethash coins out there to mine.
jr. member
Activity: 70
Merit: 1
Casper protocol from Ethereum will make eth more competitive against bitcoin.

 this new protocol will reduce energy consumption for eth mining while the cost of energy to mine btc is about $1.500.000.000 per year.
member
Activity: 306
Merit: 14
Is this about eth only or all coins with ethash algo?
sr. member
Activity: 847
Merit: 383
For those sitting on hardware bought in 2016 or early 2017 this is not a big deal. It just cuts down on the eth inflation.

For all those new adopters who ran to mining and bought rigs financed at 21% APR on a credit card this is the death blow. The ETH hashrate only dropped about 10TH/s today. It needs to drop another 80 or so to reach equilibrium with the new emission rate.

This is just like LTC crashing from $50 to $4 back in 2014. It took 3 years to recover from that.

This recovery should be faster, but I see the first 1/2 of 2019 being in the red.

Bye bye moon lambo dreams. Chikun has crashed.

VOSK - I dumped most of my farm early this year. I am working hard to acquire more capitol to outright buy crypto when the times presents itself (probably Thansgiving or Christmas time).

So true, that is a good example. I myself think, eth will recovery very fast and will double triple the price over night when the time comes, too many people are holding money for that moment but i do think the best time to buy is right now  and once that is done then you trolls will never see eth at $200 levels ever again.

Bitcoin does that normally but no one complains, the Block reward halves in every 210,000 blocks.
From 50BTC to 25BTC (from start to early stages) and the recently 12.5BTC reward didn't have a lot of "disinterest" issues to the miners.

However, Bitcoin miners are mostly ASIC farms versus Ethereum is mostly consists of GPU mining pools.
We'll see after the implementation but in my opinion, this reward reduction will not cause any major downside to the Ethereum community.
ETH miners will simply... 'disgusted' but will never quit.

It is hard to directly compare mining Bitcoin to Ethereum, as while it it true that the BTC block reward halves every 210,000 blocks at least every BTC in existence was mined by miners. Ethereum started out with around 72 million coins and has since added 30 million more through mining.

So while further ETH block reward reductions will indeed limit inflation, it cannot be compared to Bitcoin's situation as only a bit less than a third of the Ethereum in existence came from direct mining. So it really comes as no surprise that Ethereum does not really care about mining as most of the investment in the coin came from private hands versus Bitcoin's more open and public approach.

That is one of the reason why eth has to keep their investors happy, they are the ones holding the most eth, the ones crashing eth right now are the unhappy miners.

Yep!
newbie
Activity: 39
Merit: 0
can you do a review about bitcoin interest? its the first coin to implement ProgPOW  https://twitter.com/btcinterest which she also stated in the live interview that FPGA wont do much about ProgPOW.
Also ohgodagirl is part of the BCI team, but since it just recently forked the algo exchanges are still not accepting deposits.
sr. member
Activity: 2142
Merit: 353
Xtreme Monster
For those sitting on hardware bought in 2016 or early 2017 this is not a big deal. It just cuts down on the eth inflation.

For all those new adopters who ran to mining and bought rigs financed at 21% APR on a credit card this is the death blow. The ETH hashrate only dropped about 10TH/s today. It needs to drop another 80 or so to reach equilibrium with the new emission rate.

This is just like LTC crashing from $50 to $4 back in 2014. It took 3 years to recover from that.

This recovery should be faster, but I see the first 1/2 of 2019 being in the red.

Bye bye moon lambo dreams. Chikun has crashed.

VOSK - I dumped most of my farm early this year. I am working hard to acquire more capitol to outright buy crypto when the times presents itself (probably Thansgiving or Christmas time).

So true, that is a good example. I myself think, eth will recovery very fast and will double triple the price over night when the time comes, too many people are holding money for that moment but i do think the best time to buy is right now  and once that is done then you trolls will never see eth at $200 levels ever again.

Bitcoin does that normally but no one complains, the Block reward halves in every 210,000 blocks.
From 50BTC to 25BTC (from start to early stages) and the recently 12.5BTC reward didn't have a lot of "disinterest" issues to the miners.

However, Bitcoin miners are mostly ASIC farms versus Ethereum is mostly consists of GPU mining pools.
We'll see after the implementation but in my opinion, this reward reduction will not cause any major downside to the Ethereum community.
ETH miners will simply... 'disgusted' but will never quit.

It is hard to directly compare mining Bitcoin to Ethereum, as while it it true that the BTC block reward halves every 210,000 blocks at least every BTC in existence was mined by miners. Ethereum started out with around 72 million coins and has since added 30 million more through mining.

So while further ETH block reward reductions will indeed limit inflation, it cannot be compared to Bitcoin's situation as only a bit less than a third of the Ethereum in existence came from direct mining. So it really comes as no surprise that Ethereum does not really care about mining as most of the investment in the coin came from private hands versus Bitcoin's more open and public approach.

That is one of the reason why eth has to keep their investors happy, they are the ones holding the most eth, the ones crashing eth right now are the unhappy miners.
legendary
Activity: 1453
Merit: 1011
Bitcoin Talks Bullshit Walks
Bitcoin does that normally but no one complains, the Block reward halves in every 210,000 blocks.
From 50BTC to 25BTC (from start to early stages) and the recently 12.5BTC reward didn't have a lot of "disinterest" issues to the miners.

However, Bitcoin miners are mostly ASIC farms versus Ethereum is mostly consists of GPU mining pools.
We'll see after the implementation but in my opinion, this reward reduction will not cause any major downside to the Ethereum community.
ETH miners will simply... 'disgusted' but will never quit.

Trust me we are shutting down.  Wait and see how much is actually ASICS on this network.  They have been secretly mining with them for quite some time.  I’m mean who the hell still mines bitcoin with gpu?  Yes let’s go back and look at threads and see how everyone took the asic news when they could mine btc with mere 280x.  I’m certain they were up in arms as well.  Then to add salt to wound most got scammed by companies that never produced asic or was basically a door stopper before they got it.  Do you see the general pattern for crypto. You get in and end up coming out broken.  Broke etc.  this is a disaster and we all know it. I’ve said it before it’s like a train wreck hard to look away once it starts.  What a mess this has become!

BR
legendary
Activity: 1453
Merit: 1011
Bitcoin Talks Bullshit Walks
Sucks when you help to build up a system then get fired for no reason other than they have to appeal to the investors. Bitcoin seems no different. Efficiency pushes mining to the cheapest power locations thus removing decentralization.  I’m seeing some hope with grin and progpow but honestly unless we have equal power costs across the world this is a major hurdle for decentralization. I don’t see any solution to this as of yet. So we have to continue to turn our heads to the fact that crypto is a centralizing failure.

BR
Pages:
Jump to: