EU countries agree deal to cut use of gas this winter - page 2.

LoyceV

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Quote from: DrBeer on September 04, 2022, 03:21:14 PM

% filling of gas storage facilities, from the standard, excluding 15% savings in 2022/2023 (!!!), as of September 01, 2022

We won't freeze to death, but it's terrible for industry. Just recently, several large factories had to shut down because of high gas prices. That means less jobs and more importing, and none of that is good considering the current inflation and euro exchange rate.
Heating isn't the main reason for our high gas consumption.

DrBeer

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How the Kremlin wants their fantasies to come true! Otherwise, their entire history, achievements and felicity, being 100% fake from birth, will collapse and bury under them all this formation that is morbid for the whole world, under the name of the Russian Federation.

So, what does the picture look like as of September 1 regarding the filling of European gas storages, according to the system of ensuring and guaranteeing the work of industry and providing households? After listening to the idiotic squeals from Russian terrorists, the first opinion is that Europe will definitely freeze this winter!

This is how the situation is presented.

But there is a reality and it is like this:
% filling of gas storage facilities, from the standard, excluding 15% savings in 2022/2023 (!!!), as of September 01, 2022

Austria 67.54%
Belgium 89.64
Bulgaria 62.64
Croatia 78.48
Czech Republic 82.27
Denmark 94.4
France 92.4
Germany 85.02
Hungary 64.57
Italy 83.33
Latvia 49.8
Netherlands 78.76
Poland 98.98
Portugal 100
Romania 74.3
Slovakia 78.38
Spain 85
Sweden 90.8

PS most importantly - unlike Russian fake news, the above facts can be CHECKED

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Quote from: Sithara007 on August 30, 2022, 10:56:41 PM

Quote from: Scripture on August 30, 2022, 04:33:39 PM

The gas price continues to increase not just in EU but also in other countries, this kind of law is just temporary and seriously might not affect the gas consumption that much. If EU really concern about this, they should think for a long term solution because I can’t see any reconciliation with Russia to them, they should start looking for other supplier at a much lesser price.

From today (31st August) onwards, Nord Stream pipeline will be closed for gas transport. This will exacerbate the situation in Europe regarding the availability of natural gas. Now the only transport route for Russian gas to Europe at this point is the one through Ukraine. And if the supplies get disrupted there, then catastrophe awaits the Europeans. And the Europeans are getting really desperate. The French have now invaded Yemen in pursuit of natural gas (not sure whether it will be of any help for them).

and what is happening now with this policy is that the EU community is the victim. Until now inflation has occurred on a large scale, and of course this is like suffocating the people. quite miserable. and not only for the EU, of course the whole world will be affected, because many other countries need products from Europe to meet their daily needs. I hope that good diplomacy will take place soon, considering that so far there doesn't seem to be an agreement to relieve each other. I'm afraid that this kind of condition will have a bigger impact than the occurrence of war

DrBeer

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No matter how the Kremlin terrorists tried to economically terrorize a small part of the EU (Germany, France, Italy, Hungary) by shutting off the gas valve, irreversible processes of degradation have already begun in the Russian economy. They will no longer be saved by stopping the pumping of gas to these countries, moreover, it will lead to the destruction of the gas industry! Why ? Because Russia is a backward country, with a very primitive and inflexible gas infrastructure, and they will simply have nowhere to put such volumes of gas, which will make it necessary to preserve production. Well, or stupidly burn at a loss

By the way, as is already being done with gas that is not supplied, in violation of the contract, to Germany.
We sit back, pour our favorite drink, and watch online how the supposedly "powerful economy of Russia" turns into dust, but the real fake and primitive economy of a third world country

be.open

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Quote from: Sithara007 on August 30, 2022, 10:56:41 PM

Quote from: Scripture on August 30, 2022, 04:33:39 PM

The gas price continues to increase not just in EU but also in other countries, this kind of law is just temporary and seriously might not affect the gas consumption that much. If EU really concern about this, they should think for a long term solution because I can’t see any reconciliation with Russia to them, they should start looking for other supplier at a much lesser price.

From today (31st August) onwards, Nord Stream pipeline will be closed for gas transport. This will exacerbate the situation in Europe regarding the availability of natural gas. Now the only transport route for Russian gas to Europe at this point is the one through Ukraine. And if the supplies get disrupted there, then catastrophe awaits the Europeans. And the Europeans are getting really desperate. The French have now invaded Yemen in pursuit of natural gas (not sure whether it will be of any help for them).

Not quite so, there is also a Turkish stream from Russia to Turkey along the bottom of the Black Sea and further from Turkey to Europe (to Serbia, Hungary, etc.).

Sithara007

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Quote from: Scripture on August 30, 2022, 04:33:39 PM

The gas price continues to increase not just in EU but also in other countries, this kind of law is just temporary and seriously might not affect the gas consumption that much. If EU really concern about this, they should think for a long term solution because I can’t see any reconciliation with Russia to them, they should start looking for other supplier at a much lesser price.

From today (31st August) onwards, Nord Stream pipeline will be closed for gas transport. This will exacerbate the situation in Europe regarding the availability of natural gas. Now the only transport route for Russian gas to Europe at this point is the one through Ukraine. And if the supplies get disrupted there, then catastrophe awaits the Europeans. And the Europeans are getting really desperate. The French have now invaded Yemen in pursuit of natural gas (not sure whether it will be of any help for them).

Scripture

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Quote from: Eden Loomis on August 30, 2022, 02:31:59 AM

It's a short term solution but it cannot be used for a long time. In France, the government has published a law for using air condition while the door open to reduce the gas consumption. However, the significant problem is the supply, particularly the Russia-Ukrain war

The gas price continues to increase not just in EU but also in other countries, this kind of law is just temporary and seriously might not affect the gas consumption that much. If EU really concern about this, they should think for a long term solution because I can’t see any reconciliation with Russia to them, they should start looking for other supplier at a much lesser price.

coupable

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Quote from: coupable on August 29, 2022, 11:37:55 AM

Quote from: DrBeer on August 28, 2022, 04:36:12 PM

"Successes" of Russia in the oil and gas market today:
1. Gas production, only according to official data, reduced by 15%. This is an irreversible loss.
2. That part of the gas that Russia does not supply to Germany via Nord Stream 1 is simply burned. Losses of the order of 300 million dollars a month!
3. Part of the oil that Russia no longer supplies to the EU, it is forced to sell to China and India, on their terms, and this is a 40% discount to the market price, i.e. today about 50 dollars per barrel. Yes, and this is subject to more expensive transportation
4. In Europe, Russia has lost its status as the leader in gas supplies, now Norway is the leader in gas supplies, which is ready to further increase production in order to contain negative factors in the market.

1- I agree with you that a decline of 15 percent is a huge loss that may cause a short-term deficit.
2- These quantities can be converted to liquefied gas or simply reduce the daily production quantities, but they do not do this to maintain prices at the required level.
3- This is a cost that Russia must pay in order to be able to continue its policy of pressure through economic sanctions. India and China cannot buy these derivatives at their real price because it will cost them more than that by adding the cost of transportation and refining. Russia will surely find other buyers in the future and will sell it at its price. In addition, India and China are strategic allies.
4- Belgium cannot meet Europe's needs for Russian gas. Europe will enter into a real crisis with the advent of winter.

And with this surface new ways of survival without the oil and gas.
just read in other forum about Germans testing the hydrogen train as they have not been able to get oil and gas from Russia - I believe smart and developed nations will find solution and the other countries will follow. Time for the world to cut the oil and gas supply

It is not as easy as some might imagine. All alternative options require huge resources to establish in addition to the time required to do so. The hydrogen-powered train is an old project, that is, before the Ukrainian war and the beginning of the crisis. If the world begins today to plan solutions capable of compensating for the excessive consumption of gas and oil, it is likely that work on them will be finished after ten years, as an average estimate.

Eden Loomis

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It's a short term solution but it cannot be used for a long time. In France, the government has published a law for using air condition while the door open to reduce the gas consumption. However, the significant problem is the supply, particularly the Russia-Ukrain war

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Quote from: DrBeer on August 28, 2022, 04:36:12 PM

"Successes" of Russia in the oil and gas market today:
1. Gas production, only according to official data, reduced by 15%. This is an irreversible loss.
2. That part of the gas that Russia does not supply to Germany via Nord Stream 1 is simply burned. Losses of the order of 300 million dollars a month!
3. Part of the oil that Russia no longer supplies to the EU, it is forced to sell to China and India, on their terms, and this is a 40% discount to the market price, i.e. today about 50 dollars per barrel. Yes, and this is subject to more expensive transportation
4. In Europe, Russia has lost its status as the leader in gas supplies, now Norway is the leader in gas supplies, which is ready to further increase production in order to contain negative factors in the market.

1- I agree with you that a decline of 15 percent is a huge loss that may cause a short-term deficit.
2- These quantities can be converted to liquefied gas or simply reduce the daily production quantities, but they do not do this to maintain prices at the required level.
3- This is a cost that Russia must pay in order to be able to continue its policy of pressure through economic sanctions. India and China cannot buy these derivatives at their real price because it will cost them more than that by adding the cost of transportation and refining. Russia will surely find other buyers in the future and will sell it at its price. In addition, India and China are strategic allies.
4- Belgium cannot meet Europe's needs for Russian gas. Europe will enter into a real crisis with the advent of winter.

LoyceV

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Quote from: DrBeer on August 28, 2022, 04:36:12 PM

"Successes" of Russia in the oil and gas market today:
1. Gas production, only according to official data, reduced by 15%. This is an irreversible loss.

That's not a loss if the gas just stays in the ground.

Quote

2. That part of the gas that Russia does not supply to Germany via Nord Stream 1 is simply burned. Losses of the order of 300 million dollars a month!

I read they're flaring about 4 million m³ per day. That's a lot, but only 1% of the amount EU used to import from Russia.

Quote

3. Part of the oil that Russia no longer supplies to the EU, it is forced to sell to China and India, on their terms, and this is a 40% discount to the market price, i.e. today about 50 dollars per barrel. Yes, and this is subject to more expensive transportation

But Russia earns more from Europe than ever. Last month:

Quote

Since the invasion, Russia’s revenue from exporting oil and gas to Europe has doubled over the average from recent years, to $95 billion, the Paris-based IEA said.

The increase in Russia’s energy revenue in just the last five months is three times what it typically makes by exporting gas to Europe over an entire winter.

Why didn't EU set a price cap instead of bans? I would get it if they would have cut it off completely, but now we're literally paying more for less gas. It's the opposite of what the sanctions were supposed to accomplish. EU is basically sanctioning itself and paying more than ever to do so!

Quote

4. In Europe, Russia has lost its status as the leader in gas supplies, now Norway is the leader in gas supplies, which is ready to further increase production in order to contain negative factors in the market.

That won't last: Russia has 33 times higher gas reserves than Norway, which even at the current rate of production will only last 12 more years.

STT

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There isnt a solution possible in that short time frame but they can mitigate the worst effects. So simply not heating housing separately but getting as many poor and/or elderly people to share a heated room, take part in activities together for 8 hours a day throughout winter. Just that simple measure can greatly reduce the worst fallout of not having enough gas for heating available.
It doesnt have to absolute miserable or negative, people coming together can feel alot like a positive so I say it will be a mix of effects. Eventually Germany or other highly dependent countries will find their feet, people generally flip to extremes in their reaction and feat the absolute worst. We do hope for a mild winter of course.

$anounimus$

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Quote from: Frankolala on July 26, 2022, 03:57:21 PM

Do you think this will help solve the EU gas shortage for now

The threat of shortages may still remain in the future, so these countries may want to minimize their dependence on Russian natural gas in the future and the EU States finally take decisive action to complete their current gas role, which could be a significant step toward ending the crisis. but we'll see how long this lasts.

My opinion This may only be a short-term solution, but it will at least help the situation for a while. Plus, prices are likely to go up soon, so maybe this will give the EU some time before the next round of price hikes.

Naficopa

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Quote from: DrBeer on August 28, 2022, 04:36:12 PM

"Successes" of Russia in the oil and gas market today:
1. Gas production, only according to official data, reduced by 15%. This is an irreversible loss.
2. That part of the gas that Russia does not supply to Germany via Nord Stream 1 is simply burned. Losses of the order of 300 million dollars a month!
3. Part of the oil that Russia no longer supplies to the EU, it is forced to sell to China and India, on their terms, and this is a 40% discount to the market price, i.e. today about 50 dollars per barrel. Yes, and this is subject to more expensive transportation
4. In Europe, Russia has lost its status as the leader in gas supplies, now Norway is the leader in gas supplies, which is ready to further increase production in order to contain negative factors in the market.

Where are we all heading towards?
Death - war - destruction - more destruction and killing. It's time for the world to hold the horses and let the peace grow!
Otherwise we all will suffer and there will be no end to it..

DrBeer

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"Successes" of Russia in the oil and gas market today:
1. Gas production, only according to official data, reduced by 15%. This is an irreversible loss.
2. That part of the gas that Russia does not supply to Germany via Nord Stream 1 is simply burned. Losses of the order of 300 million dollars a month!
3. Part of the oil that Russia no longer supplies to the EU, it is forced to sell to China and India, on their terms, and this is a 40% discount to the market price, i.e. today about 50 dollars per barrel. Yes, and this is subject to more expensive transportation
4. In Europe, Russia has lost its status as the leader in gas supplies, now Norway is the leader in gas supplies, which is ready to further increase production in order to contain negative factors in the market.

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Quote from: Naficopa on August 12, 2022, 06:16:46 PM

Russia is not suffering at all...If some of the buyers have left the trade there are many in line with them too.

India and China are okay with continuing business with Russia for their oil despite the condemnation from the west. The problem is, the Russian economy isn't solely based on oil/gas. There's sanctions on most Russian exports from the west and India/China cannot pick up the remnants of the Russian economy on their own.

Russia is suffering, just not to the extent the west had hoped for because of the bone India and China has thrown them.

Quote from: Naficopa on August 12, 2022, 06:16:46 PM

My country also wanted to buy oil and gas from Russia but due to US and EU pressure - they were unable to do it.

Which is rather unfortunate because the west has no authority to become global arbitrators in economic affairs.

Naficopa

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Quote from: DrBeer on August 21, 2022, 04:42:57 PM

And these two points indicate that, most likely, China, looking at a dying Russia, which is dying precisely because of Ukraine's international support, and pressure on Russia itself, will make a more logical decision. Which ? It's hard for me to say. Perhaps the broad autonomy of Taiwan, and for example the independence of the banking and political systems, but conditionally as part of China. Or some kind of confederation... But a stupid war is unlikely, which is guaranteed to throw China back 100 years ago!

I am not sure how the cold countries in EU are going to survive in winter without oil and gas supply..
The winter is going to be unique and tough this time.
In our country the temperature drops to only zero and we have gas and electricity shut down for years. And we know it is very hard to survive. What are the cold counties of EU going to do/?

DrBeer

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Quote from: TopTort777 on August 03, 2022, 02:26:37 PM

I will have a good laugh if in situation, if China attacks Taiwan, countries will put sanctions against China, and business wont work with China again. Without China, every production in every country would stop. And gas problem would be less important problem among all others.

"Cut use of gas this winter" - yes please. I am fed up with that super heat from radiators. Even if I turn them off partly, I will open windows and heat the street, because +24+25C is unbearable.

...but on the other side:
- China's economy rests only on the EXPORT of its products, and sanctions will instantly kill domestic production.
- China still needs investments and Western technologies. And they won't either.

These 2 points will be enough for the Chinese economy to very quickly roll back 40 years ago, but hundreds of millions of Chinese who remember how to live in poverty, and how they live now, will clearly be against returning back to a totally poor past "

- China has no true and strong friends, and no one will help it in this situation.
- China is not idiots from the Kremlin, and they are very realistic about the situation.

And these two points indicate that, most likely, China, looking at a dying Russia, which is dying precisely because of Ukraine's international support, and pressure on Russia itself, will make a more logical decision. Which ? It's hard for me to say. Perhaps the broad autonomy of Taiwan, and for example the independence of the banking and political systems, but conditionally as part of China. Or some kind of confederation... But a stupid war is unlikely, which is guaranteed to throw China back 100 years ago!

STT

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They are blocked from importing directly from EU. They have reserves to trade with other countries thats their plan. Russia cannot even send their own assets towards remote sections like Kaliningrad as this too requires the assistance of NATO members who have sanctions against any Russian asset.

Quote

Do you think this will help solve the EU gas shortage for now

Its a mitigating move, this whole incident is a test of EU unity as most countries are not nearly as deeply entrenched into a gas shortage as Germany managed to do. Its common mistakes, countries dont value their own production ability enough. Germany required a stack of new projects as priority one far longer back then the last decade, they took the path of least resistance and leant on nations outside EU and NATO. I hope history records this mistake will keep occurring if we dont avoid it.

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Quote from: Naficopa on August 12, 2022, 06:16:46 PM

Quote from: coupable on August 12, 2022, 06:11:05 PM

I think that Russia is the worst sufferer in the medium and long term, as it does not have another gas supplier capable of meeting its needs, and at the same time, it does not have the necessary infrastructure to acquire liquefied gas, whose cost is very high compared to natural gas. On the other hand, he ruled out Russia's permanently cutting off gas from Europe because it is almost the last pressure card it has .

Russia is not suffering at all...If some of the buyers have left the trade there are many in line with them too.
My country also wanted to buy oil and gas from Russia but due to US and EU pressure - they were unable to do it.

Russia cannot cut off its gas supplies to Europe because it imports a large part of its needs from the European market. Currently, there are those who did not comply with Western sanctions and kept importing Russian oil, for example, but for less than half its price. India and China are taking advantage of the crisis to boost their energy reserves, and Russia does not have alternatives because of the economic sanctions that have been imposed on it. Consequently, it threatens its economic strength, including cutting off Ukrainian wheat supplies to the whole world, not just Europe.

Topic: EU countries agree deal to cut use of gas this winter - page 2. (Read 1231 times)