No one needs more than 640K.
I only just found out computers did colours - I thought everything was supposed to be green-on-black 
Topic: Eventual size of blockchain? (Read 2747 times)
also take into account the possibility of specialized hardware. there could be a usb6.0 device, that stores the first 30 years of bitcoin history (which never changes again) and let's you interface with it. i don't think of a normal harddisk+traditional db-indexing, but more like a general purpose "client/server" like communication interface, that hooks directly into bitcoind. we don't know what kind of devices will be there, maybe some kind of holographic crystal with a quantum-effect-indexing-layer.
so, all i want to say is that you have to take uncertainty of the future into account.
so, all i want to say is that you have to take uncertainty of the future into account.
Yes indeed, of course they may be innovations to overcome this.
Guess we'll see
also take into account the possibility of specialized hardware. there could be a usb6.0 device, that stores the first 30 years of bitcoin history (which never changes again) and let's you interface with it. i don't think of a normal harddisk+traditional db-indexing, but more like a general purpose "client/server" like communication interface, that hooks directly into bitcoind. we don't know what kind of devices will be there, maybe some kind of holographic crystal with a quantum-effect-indexing-layer.
so, all i want to say is that you have to take uncertainty of the future into account.
so, all i want to say is that you have to take uncertainty of the future into account.
There is a hard limit as to how much information can be stored on a chip. It's just we havent reached it in 30 years.
So then store it in your body.
Just 4g of DNA could store all the digital information created in a year on the planet.
http://www.techthefuture.com/technology/all-data-humanity-creates-in-a-year-stored-on-4-grams-of-dna/
So you are including DNA computing technology in your investment analysis of bitcoin? This has not even been invented yet. It's just a concept. It is ridiculous to speculate on DNA storage - it's like talking about nuclear fusion.
Its clear that for the foreseeable future, storage is not unlimited, and also bandwidth is not unlimited. The unlimited size of the blockchain; the fact that anybody can add transactions for no cost, eg. SDice. The overhead with distributing an unlimited sized file to every node. IMO, that's the bitcoin end game - ignoring any government influence.
We're already seeing the beginnings of this problem with the patch from psi that's now available, that skips SDice transactions for miners.
O RLY?
Next-Generation Digital Information Storage in DNA
George M. Church, Yuan Gao, Sriram Kosuri, Published Online August 16 2012
Science 28 September 2012:
Vol. 337 no. 6102 p. 1628
DOI: 10.1126/science.1226355
Digital information is accumulating at an astounding rate, straining our ability to store and archive it. DNA is among the most dense and stable information media known. The development of new technologies in both DNA synthesis and sequencing make DNA an increasingly feasible digital storage medium. We developed a strategy to encode arbitrary digital information in DNA, wrote a 5.27-megabit book using DNA microchips, and read the book by using next-generation DNA sequencing.
EDIT:
To be clear, I agree that block size should have a limit, although it will probably need raised to more than 1 MB at some point.
Sorry, I read your comment but I dont see how this article or paper contradicts what I was saying
Show me a link to amazon where I can buy a DNA computing device. Then I'll conclude that what you're talking about is more than just a concept.
RE: dancupid
"Moore's law" is not really a law. It was just an analysis by a guy 40 years ago who predicted a trend in microcomputing (that is computers getting smaller and smaller). For some reason this prediction has been given the word "law" but actually this is wrong.
Let me repeat what I said before. There is a hard limit to how much information can be stored on a chip. Its just we havent reached it.
Therefore the concept of distributing an unlimited sized file to every node on the network is fundamentally not sustainable or economical - READ: flawed. Storage will not be getting cheaper forever but under the current design of bitcoin, the filesize of blockchain will be getting bigger forever.
This analysis doesnt even take into account the bandwidth usage requirement as well, which will also be getting bigger forever.
There is a hard limit as to how much information can be stored on a chip. It's just we havent reached it in 30 years.
So then store it in your body.
Just 4g of DNA could store all the digital information created in a year on the planet.
http://www.techthefuture.com/technology/all-data-humanity-creates-in-a-year-stored-on-4-grams-of-dna/
So you are including DNA computing technology in your investment analysis of bitcoin? This has not even been invented yet. It's just a concept. It is ridiculous to speculate on DNA storage - it's like talking about nuclear fusion.
Its clear that for the foreseeable future, storage is not unlimited, and also bandwidth is not unlimited. The unlimited size of the blockchain; the fact that anybody can add transactions for no cost, eg. SDice. The overhead with distributing an unlimited sized file to every node. IMO, that's the bitcoin end game - ignoring any government influence.
We're already seeing the beginnings of this problem with the patch from psi that's now available, that skips SDice transactions for miners.
O RLY?
Next-Generation Digital Information Storage in DNA
George M. Church, Yuan Gao, Sriram Kosuri, Published Online August 16 2012
Science 28 September 2012:
Vol. 337 no. 6102 p. 1628
DOI: 10.1126/science.1226355
Digital information is accumulating at an astounding rate, straining our ability to store and archive it. DNA is among the most dense and stable information media known. The development of new technologies in both DNA synthesis and sequencing make DNA an increasingly feasible digital storage medium. We developed a strategy to encode arbitrary digital information in DNA, wrote a 5.27-megabit book using DNA microchips, and read the book by using next-generation DNA sequencing.
EDIT:
To be clear, I agree that block size should have a limit, although it will probably need raised to more than 1 MB at some point.
2048 GB in 40 years is nothing , consider this
YEAR — Price of a Gigabyte (ref: http://blog.spamfighter.com/general/an-overview-of-data-storage-devices-over-time-infographic.html)
1981 — $300,000
1987 — $50,000
1990 — $10,000
1994 — $1000
1997 — $100
2000 — $10
2004 — $1
2010 — $0.10
so in 40 years we assume what happened in last 30 years will repeat, price of 2048 GB would be, basically nothing and price of bitcoin if it still there after 40 years would be tooo much, so your concern in not valid.
Even today you can buy a 2tb hard drive for 2 btc
YEAR — Price of a Gigabyte (ref: http://blog.spamfighter.com/general/an-overview-of-data-storage-devices-over-time-infographic.html)
1981 — $300,000
1987 — $50,000
1990 — $10,000
1994 — $1000
1997 — $100
2000 — $10
2004 — $1
2010 — $0.10
so in 40 years we assume what happened in last 30 years will repeat, price of 2048 GB would be, basically nothing and price of bitcoin if it still there after 40 years would be tooo much, so your concern in not valid.
Even today you can buy a 2tb hard drive for 2 btc
So this has worked in the past - but why should it continue to work in the future?
There is a hard limit as to how much information can be stored on a chip. It's just we havent reached it in 30 years.
So you are saying the trend of last 40 years will suddenly stop, even in that case as I mentioned the 2TB mentioned is not that costly right now, so in 30 years would be definitely cheaper, and these are magnetic harddisk prices, in 30 years there will be better ways to store data like 1 byte per atom, go compute!
There is a hard limit as to how much information can be stored on a chip. It's just we havent reached it in 30 years.
So then store it in your body.
Just 4g of DNA could store all the digital information created in a year on the planet.
http://www.techthefuture.com/technology/all-data-humanity-creates-in-a-year-stored-on-4-grams-of-dna/
So you are including DNA computing technology in your investment analysis of bitcoin? This has not even been invented yet. It's just a concept. It is ridiculous to speculate on DNA storage - it's like talking about nuclear fusion.
Its clear that for the foreseeable future, storage is not unlimited, and also bandwidth is not unlimited. The unlimited size of the blockchain; the fact that anybody can add transactions for no cost, eg. SDice. The overhead with distributing an unlimited sized file to every node. IMO, that's the bitcoin end game - ignoring any government influence.
We're already seeing the beginnings of this problem with the patch from psi that's now available, that skips SDice transactions for miners.
Bitcoin was designed taking into account Moore's law - ie it requires technology to develop for it to survive.
From the satoshi paper:
"With computer systems typically selling with 2GB of RAM as of 2008, and Moore's Law predicting current growth of 1.2GB per year, storage should not be a problem even if the block headers must be kept in memory"
From MS Paint (comic sans for authenticity):
However that growth is limited by the number of people in the world.
No one needs more than 640K.
I mean, yeah, by all means sir, no one does!!!!!
There is a hard limit as to how much information can be stored on a chip. It's just we havent reached it in 30 years.
So then store it in your body.
Just 4g of DNA could store all the digital information created in a year on the planet.
http://www.techthefuture.com/technology/all-data-humanity-creates-in-a-year-stored-on-4-grams-of-dna/
So you are including DNA computing technology in your investment analysis of bitcoin? This has not even been invented yet. It's just a concept. It is ridiculous to speculate on DNA storage - it's like talking about nuclear fusion.
Its clear that for the foreseeable future, storage is not unlimited, and also bandwidth is not unlimited. The unlimited size of the blockchain; the fact that anybody can add transactions for no cost, eg. SDice. The overhead with distributing an unlimited sized file to every node. IMO, that's the bitcoin end game - ignoring any government influence.
We're already seeing the beginnings of this problem with the patch from psi that's now available, that skips SDice transactions for miners.
There is a hard limit as to how much information can be stored on a chip. It's just we havent reached it in 30 years.
So then store it in your body.
Just 4g of DNA could store all the digital information created in a year on the planet.
http://www.techthefuture.com/technology/all-data-humanity-creates-in-a-year-stored-on-4-grams-of-dna/
However that growth is limited by the number of people in the world.
That's not true, bitcoin can be used by machines. Machines controlled by people or independent AIs using bitcoin to buy spare parts?
The day we have AI's using bitcoin as their currency of choice, I will admit all bets are off, because that's post singularity.
2048 GB in 40 years is nothing , consider this
YEAR — Price of a Gigabyte (ref: http://blog.spamfighter.com/general/an-overview-of-data-storage-devices-over-time-infographic.html)
1981 — $300,000
1987 — $50,000
1990 — $10,000
1994 — $1000
1997 — $100
2000 — $10
2004 — $1
2010 — $0.10
so in 40 years we assume what happened in last 30 years will repeat, price of 2048 GB would be, basically nothing and price of bitcoin if it still there after 40 years would be tooo much, so your concern in not valid.
Even today you can buy a 2tb hard drive for 2 btc
YEAR — Price of a Gigabyte (ref: http://blog.spamfighter.com/general/an-overview-of-data-storage-devices-over-time-infographic.html)
1981 — $300,000
1987 — $50,000
1990 — $10,000
1994 — $1000
1997 — $100
2000 — $10
2004 — $1
2010 — $0.10
so in 40 years we assume what happened in last 30 years will repeat, price of 2048 GB would be, basically nothing and price of bitcoin if it still there after 40 years would be tooo much, so your concern in not valid.
Even today you can buy a 2tb hard drive for 2 btc
So this has worked in the past - but why should it continue to work in the future?
There is a hard limit as to how much information can be stored on a chip. It's just we havent reached it in 30 years.
However that growth is limited by the number of people in the world.
That's not true, bitcoin can be used by machines. And machine people.
However that growth is limited by the number of people in the world.
No one needs more than 640K.
However that growth is limited by the number of people in the world.
That's not true, bitcoin can be used by machines.
The bitcoin user-base and the blockchain are growing at an exponential rate that is outstripping Moore's law.
However that growth is limited by the number of people in the world.
At the current rate of growth the entire population of the world will be using bitcoin in 5 years (not actually likely), at which point the blockchain will maintain a linear growth rate, which will then be outstripped by Moore's law.
ie there is potentially a crossover point where the resources used by bitcoin push up against the limits of our technology.
If Bitcoin survives beyond that moment, Moore's law will ensure that it becomes increasingly trivial to download and store the blockchain.
However that growth is limited by the number of people in the world.
At the current rate of growth the entire population of the world will be using bitcoin in 5 years (not actually likely), at which point the blockchain will maintain a linear growth rate, which will then be outstripped by Moore's law.
ie there is potentially a crossover point where the resources used by bitcoin push up against the limits of our technology.
If Bitcoin survives beyond that moment, Moore's law will ensure that it becomes increasingly trivial to download and store the blockchain.
2048 GB in 40 years is nothing , consider this
YEAR — Price of a Gigabyte (ref: http://blog.spamfighter.com/general/an-overview-of-data-storage-devices-over-time-infographic.html)
1981 — $300,000
1987 — $50,000
1990 — $10,000
1994 — $1000
1997 — $100
2000 — $10
2004 — $1
2010 — $0.10
so in 40 years we assume what happened in last 30 years will repeat, price of 2048 GB would be, basically nothing and price of bitcoin if it still there after 40 years would be tooo much, so your concern in not valid.
Even today you can buy a 2tb hard drive for 2 btc
YEAR — Price of a Gigabyte (ref: http://blog.spamfighter.com/general/an-overview-of-data-storage-devices-over-time-infographic.html)
1981 — $300,000
1987 — $50,000
1990 — $10,000
1994 — $1000
1997 — $100
2000 — $10
2004 — $1
2010 — $0.10
so in 40 years we assume what happened in last 30 years will repeat, price of 2048 GB would be, basically nothing and price of bitcoin if it still there after 40 years would be tooo much, so your concern in not valid.
Even today you can buy a 2tb hard drive for 2 btc
Ok, but is this being developed or is this just theory?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ultimate-blockchain-compression-w-trust-free-lite-nodes-88208I know about that but I haven't seen anyone state (read lead dev) that working on that idea is currently a priority.
You can delete old files in directory "blocks"
Ok, but is this being developed or is this just theory?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ultimate-blockchain-compression-w-trust-free-lite-nodes-88208I know about that but I haven't seen anyone state (read lead dev) that working on that idea is currently a priority.
Ok, but is this being developed or is this just theory?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ultimate-blockchain-compression-w-trust-free-lite-nodes-88208 Jump to: