Topic: Everything you wanted to know about BTC futures but were afraid to ask! - page 6. (Read 4074 times)

You cannot really wish institutional investors away, even if you have preferences for them NOT to be here or not to attempt to manipulate the fuck out of the space.  There are also some people who will not invest into anything except through institutional investors and there are also institutional investors that do not take individuals for clients, unless they have like at least a $million to invest.. Love or hate them, they are increasingly coming to the space, and I look forward to some of them getting reckt, even though in the end, they are likely already going to be able to figure out various ways to hedge in order NOT to get REKT, even if they do not really understand their investment asset (referring to BTC).

It’s not bitcoin needs Wall Street. It's Wall Street that needs bitcoin.

Why the fuck do you want them involved at all?

This is a revolution of the people, WE don't need nor want them.

Figures don't lie but liars figure. <<<--- that describes the entire institutional banking system and we should not want them involved on the NEW economy.


We were doing just fine until they started their futures market and skimmed the cap and got their greedy little hands in our pie.

So it is better for everyone to first get the knowledge about the wallet, how to use it, how to ensure the security it offers and what are the backups for you before saving your coins. After getting this all information go for the hard wallet if you fear a lot of risks and can have better form of security. This will make you more confident and relax before saving your huge amounts.

What does that mean?  Yeah of course, btc prices go up and they go down, and if they go up too quickly, then there is likely to be a decent sized correction, but how the fuck does anyone know how far to take profits.  Yeah, you can play a bit here or there to hedge, but you, Faxmate, seem to be suggesting that you are planning on making some BIG play in the near future to either sell a large portion of your BTC or to short... and seems very risky to me, unless you are just playing with a small amount of your stash.

I will personally concede that I feel a decent level of froth in the whole damned space, and it really does not have to do with futures, as far as I can tell, but of course, futures players remain one of the factors that must be considered.  My worry remains the ongoing pumpening of some of the obvious crap such as the various alt coins.  So yeah, even though the vast majority of them are merely riding off of the coat tails of bitcoin, they just seem to be too eager to pump in ways that just signal (at least from my perspective) needs for correction.  I am not as worried about bitcoin's ability to sustain a decent pump, even beyond the $13,880 top from June 27, 2019... So yeah, there seems to be kind of a need to monitor some of the phony baloney that is taking place on the sidelines, too.. and some of the financial instruments seem to be eying ways to add some of those frothy coins into their options whether referring to their price or sometimes using some phony coin like ethereum as collateral... which seems dangerous as fuck, given their all over the place code base.. and even uncertainties in terms of transitioning its code base... People who play with futures, must be attempting to account for dynamics in the whole space, even if their instruments are utilizing bitcoins more and using bitcoin prices as referents.

Miners and traders are now day very happy with their bitcoin because day by day bitcoin is increasing the value and it's being good for trading after holding of specific time periods. Trading right now is not good as the market is under recovery but I think with little patience I will be able to get my target profit just need to be patient.

Futures are derivative financial contracts that obligate the parties to transact an asset at a predetermined future date and price. Here, the buyer must purchase or the seller must sell the underlying asset at the set price, regardless of the current market price at the expiration date.

The whole point of "Futures" is ... well, ... at least one purpose is to hedge. To prevent losses from potentially unfavorable price changes rather than to speculate.

At the very least, the futures market is regulated, some are even insured. (I think all of them are insured to some extend, maybe there's a limit.)

Dealing with actual bitcoins, as in holding the private keys to your wallet, is daunting for a lot of people who don't know or even have a clue how the technology works. For the institutional investors, this is where custodial solutions come in. For the private ones, if they know someone like one of us (assuming you know how to do cold storage and stuff like that.)

If you want institutional money, if you want big traders money for Bitcoin you can't avoid derivatives...
Moreover futures can be very useful for all the miners, they are able to sell at fixed prices several weeks or months before getting their bitcoins.
And don't forget that most of futures exchanges only accept bitcoins. So you need to buy "real" bitcoins before trading on them.

Ok.  Fair enough.

I surely remain quite skeptical of these various products to the extent that they represent actual bitcoins, and I really have my doubts regarding the level of their being backed up by actual bitcoins.  Sure, some of them claim to have bitcoin and others don't even claim to be backed up by bitcoins.   

I do accept that there is some value in directly buying bitcoins and directly holding them, so I expect that at some points in our bitcoin future, there are going to be tests of the value of actually having your bitcoins and whether there might end up being some denigration of some of those products because the dynamics in manipulating bitcoin is different from manipulating a market like gold - in terms of at least how easily one can demand possession of millions of dollars of bitcoin and actual act upon such demand (within minutes - maybe 10 minutes to get a confirmation and an hour or so to be able to retransmit the value that you have taken into your possession), whereas the logistics to demand millions of dollars of gold and to verify it is a lot more cumbersome.

Actually there is, we can choose to not participate in the dilution of the asset class.

We can also educate those that ask this same question why these  unsettled "liquidity supplying, volatility squashing" markets should not be supported but rather the asset itself purchased and held.

Every coin being rolled over in house in these clearing houses is one less actually being bought on chain and that is a direct dilution of the cap.

Think of if no-one had herded to Walmart as was forewarned by so many of us..

I think the market manipulation via futures is very overestimated.
Firstly their trading volumes is way less than the one a few big whale can shoot on the market.
Second it is only an historical moment. In the future the liquidity of bitcoin market will be big enough to prevent any “unfair” use of derivatives (think of fx markets today, where liquidity is so massive basically no one can move the markets).

NOT like any of us can really do anything about the existence or NON-existence of such products.  Right?  Good to be aware of these kinds of products to the extent that they might be used to affect, control or manipulate price... or attempted to be used for such.

The bitcoin is the new gold standard and hard money. Nothing prevent us building other layers on top of that for different purposes. The option of having the ultimate hard money is invaluable, and until today (until 2009) this option had been negated to each one of us. The option of having different kind of money for other uses if there is demand for it (speculation? Lending?) has a great value too.

I don't like futures for Bitcoin or Ethereum. Because they integrate the current economic system with blockchain. More precisely, they transfer the bad aspects of the current economy to the blockchain economy. Bitcoin is limited. So it is valuable.

Where have you seen it's more risky? And why it would be more risky? Only the leverage matters, but you can trade with no leverage on futures market, and important leverages on spot market, so there are not more risks in trading futures.
As fillippone said, you have much liquidity and volumes on futures market, so it can be easier to scalp and to do small backs and forths trades. Moreover fees are way cheaper, usually you have no funding fees for leverage orders, and negative fees for making orders. On the swaps market you have even negative funding fees for the short orders. And last but not least with futures you can make virtual cash and carry trades.

I would say that buying a future is not different buying the underlying exposure.
Future, generally speaking, have the feature of liquidity, while underlying might be difficult to trade( think of OIL future, for example).
For bitcoin there are a few advantages trading future versus trading bitcoin, but those advantages are mainly appreciated by institutional investors, not private investors.
So I think in your case you should stick to investing in bitcoin, not future.
Buying future wouldn't give any significative difference from buying bitcoins.

I would like to ask one important thing; is the risk involved really that big?

I mean we all know that there is a bigger risk to use futures for example versus buying regularly, I keep on buying bitcoin more and more and right now I reached a level that doesn't make sense because I can't really make too much profit unless bitcoin reaches $100k or something, with futures there is a bigger reward but we all know with bigger reward comes bigger risk as well.

So, I would like to ask what is the risk level of futures versus regular buying (long of course, I don't short btc)? Would you say it is very risky and could lose everything very quickly, or is it just a bit riskier? Could I just do it in a way that I risk only slightly more than regular purchase without risking to go all broke?

Then what you need is historical data.
I think that a free account on tradingview would suffice for that.
Bests,
f.

Appreciated your help. I implied about the filled orders, not waiting orders that can be cancelled. It is as same as tradings, data on past tradings like VPVR help us to have some strong points, resistances and supports at which the market will reach sometime in the future, pumps or dumps market will reach those ones someday in surprises of watchers.

Order books are the depths of orders biddin and offering each future.
Every exchange offers this data via paying access. It’s an high frequency data, and very informative for professional player, given it’s very important to evaluate market liquidity and slippage (I.e. costs) when executing large trades.

I don’t think it’s very informative for future direction, as it is very easy to place big orders away from markets pulling them off when markets approach:,hence giving fake informations about trading intentions (albeit this would be a “slightly illegal” practice).