Topic: Everything you wanted to know about ES Volcano Bond and were afraid to ask! - page 2. (Read 1724 times)

I don't know whether Satoshi created bitcoin in order to free man from the state, but surely there is value in the creation of a money that is likely more sound than any other money that has ever been created in order to potentially inspire various actors (whether governmental or otherwise) to be more responsible and accountable to objective standards of value.. something such as bitcoin seems to have very great potential to incentivize and inspire fairness - even though it probably does not fix all problems and it likely also does not negate various needs for some kind of state or recognition of some resources that are community in nature... .. and so even if fixing the money might not be able to fix all of the difficulties of trying to balance the community assets and individual assets, it does likely return some fairness to monetary systems that have historically been abused in a variety of ways..

I am not claiming to know the answers, but I think that it is problematic to proclaim that the government is something outside of ourselves even though we have seen a lot of ways in which government has historically been abused, currently is being abused and likely to be abused in the future.. and I would not even proclaim to know how the various balances are going to be improved or fixed, even though it seems that bitcoin seems to continue to fix and inspire ongoing fixing of some of the systems that have been corrupted by traditional money systems.. and I doubt that bitcoin's fixing of these monetary and incentive matters is a future aspiration but instead a process in which we seem to be in really early stages in which some fixing has already taken place, are currently taking place and will likely continue to take place too.. . even though there are likely going to continue to be quite a few ups and downs along the way.. including ongoing casualties for folks who either don't appreciate the power of king daddy or fail/refuse to take some of their own adequate balances in regards to recognizing and investing time, money, energies and psychology into king daddy... of course.... balance also means, not to over do it, too... as we some times see casualties from that kind of conduct, too..  hahahahahaha..

.....i.e. be aggressive and assertive in terms of your investment into my lil precious, without becoming too aggressive.. and such lessons are good on the individual level, as well as on institutional and governmental levels.

Sad thing is Bitcoin was created because Satoshi wanted to free the man from the State, and the tyranny of the few. And someone who proclaim herself a bitcoiner does what? Bows to a tyrant only because he imposed a law imposing everyone to accept bitcoin?
This is ridiculous, to say the least, and intellectually embarrassing.

The government puppets are everywhere pooping their nose out while bitcoin maximalist keep doing their job and not giving them importance and really appreciate those who present the true and accurate picture of the reality unlike fed up by goverment to speak like machine spreading negative points about bitcoin.BTCis knowledge which must be presented in true manner to everyone so they know about financial freedom of funds.

True, Like other types of loans, if the debt has to be repaid in a bull market it is very problematic especially with unstable assets, let alone ensuring the lender is protected during that period to close the deal even in a bear market.

In this regard, I also wonder whether a solution like the DAO might really help countries that are vulnerable to the current economic crisis, especially those who are more speculative with their investment appetite.

This is out of question for the moment.
Lending your bitcoin to a third party is something very difficult for the moment.
Also from the debtor point of view, debt in Bitcoin could get quite difficult nowadays: think about repaying such a bond in a bull market.

In my opinion El Salvador Bonds is a pretty experimental way to raise money, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. The idea behind it was a bet on future government fees, which were paid up front in bitcoin and simple enough that it could find its way into the larger debt markets.

But the question remains whether this work will be a revolution in public finance or just a footnote?

Given the little information available on bitcoin bonding, it's hard to say it's even unclear how much money is raised at the end of the day, but if nothing else, it's an innovative solution for raising capital. Who knows: maybe we're looking at the first bitcoin-denominated sovereign debt offering.

They are he is a true bitcoiner, and he's interested in giving a prospect of how things stands in reality, without bowing to Bukele and other clowns in the country (Max and Stacey) who are fed dollars from the government to play the State Buffon.

He's always been advocating bitcoin as an instrument of freedom for the masses, hoping from the bottom up adoption from poorer states, not a top- down experiment , like in the civilised world, or even in El Salvador, in a way, where bitcoin has been imposed by a law.

I also prefer to listen to podcasts and have listened to the mining council about how they are using energy efficient resources and shifting to green mining which tells me the latest updates to backup my statements in any post and keep updated my knowledge.But also watch YouTube videos if I found some good one's although most of them are busy shilling fake and shit coins so go through other sources.

But yes if the video is long then it's helpful to listen to the specific part which emphasize on the whole matter for what's the video is upto and refrence to that part is really helpful.


It's fine as we will not be able to understand what they are saying as we don't have graphical representation also to link up the audio and understand it but good for pointing it out to us and let us know about them as they will now be in English also so we can have look on them to see their viewpoint on the matter.

I like the way they themselves have the team on the ground foe coverage on the matter providing a realistic approach to see the whole thing to the public and good part in English also.As you see El Salvador bitcoin bonds is the new hot topic of discussion at this point and we need to know how Bukele goverment will proceed further with it as they aim to raise $1billion for bitcoin city.

Thanks for the information and those links.  Of course, if we are posting in an English thread, then we might need to point out if our sources might be in another language, and surely it is up to you how much you feel that it is necessary to either back up your sources or to provide the links (even if non-English is the only source that you know for the point that you are making).   

Sure in regards to the point that you were making, then surely sources would be important.. and of course, Samson is already known to be close to Bukele, but at the same time, he has been criticized about his sometimes overstating (marketing) and surely El Salvador has been criticized for similar spin-making.. so then part of the question might be whether your sources might have better information.. or maybe no matter what we might be speculating regarding some of those kinds of quasi-non-public details regarding volcano bond subscribership, the reasons (explanations) for the subscribership levels and also even speculations to be able to raise money for those kinds of causes during our current market environment. 

For sure, being on the ground in El Salvador can bring more credibility in terms of getting closer to primary sources, but then also sometimes being able to verify whether some of the factual representations are lining up with on-the-ground experience.... for example, how easy it might be to buy a sim card with bitcoin or some other example.. of some point that is being made.

Sorry, but the podcast I was referring is in Italian only. So, I thought it was pointless to provide an exact reference to it (I still can do that if you think it is worth, or, without spoiling your OpSec, you tell me that you can find Italian intelligible).

Regarding the "We are back" part, yes, they are back TO El Salvador.
Last year they provided a very nice reportage of 45 days spent in El Salvador documenting how the Bitcoin Ley was implemented, or actually NOT implemented in reality.

They provided a very good coverage, that was for the main part in Italian, and later translated in English.
You can find it here:

https://bitcoinitaliapodcast.it/missione-el-salvador

This year they are going to do the same mission (that's why the "We are back" claim), only broadening their focus on the whole Central America. And I guess they choose to broaden also their audience adopting the English Language.

I fully support The BIP Show: I don't know how, but I am often 100% on their side when there are controversial subjects.

I usually prefer to listen to podcasts rather than watch YouTube.. but I will watch Youtube, once in a while if I know which one is being referenced.. and even better yet if the reference tells me which part of the video to watch or tells me the reasons why I should watch / listen to the whole thing.

Your link (fillippone) referenced the BitcoinExplorers channel which has three videos (two of them are 16 minutes and one is 18 minutes).. one of them has an El Salvador title.. Is that the one or do you want me (us, we) to watch all three of those to figure out the reference.. hahahahahaha.. not trying to pick on you... and by the way, if there is an audio podcast of bitcoiners, I don't mind subscribing to it and listening to all the updates.. even though sometimes if I just hear about one, then it can take a while to listen to some of the back issues.. but I had never previously heard of this one.. BitcoinExplorers..... even though their first video says "We're back".. Back from where?  I did not listen to (or watch) it.. hahahaha .. I need direction to be inspired "where to start?" and/or "will it be worth la pena (la tristezza)?"...

During one of his last podcast, Rikki, one half of the "Bitcoin Explorers" Stated that the Bitcoin Bond was overly undersubscribed.
This was the exact opposite of what Samson Mow stated.

He is also very pessimistic about the possibility of having a bitcoin bond sooner than later (or never).
I will let you know if I discover more.

We might be ahead of time, but just looking at the possibility of issuing a bond, the timing doesn’t look great.
Bitcoin is at a historic low, with institutional interest waning and less committed than one year ago.
We all know you want to buy when the market is low, and not when it is high, but often financial need doesn’t work this way.
Also, the yield for the El Salvadorean Bond has dramatically risen since one year ago. At the moment, a 7Y Bond from El Salvador should yield at least 25%:




This is up 16% one year ago (red line in the graph), albeit down from 34% 3 Months ago (white line in the Graph).

And this is a “simple” bond. Usually, exotic bonds, with some “weird” payoff attached, are requested to yield more.

Bear in mind when you see the new Bitcoin Bond, with a coupon of 20%!

They are still coming up with this :

Their magical geothermal well that somehow evaporated, the bitcoin mining promoted in videos is dead with no talk about the operation, energy prices are matching those in nearby countries, Salvador is a net importer of energy, and they still claim they are able to invest in mining? Companies involved in mining are facing bankruptcy and the revenue has come down to some measly 5$ for every 75kwh burned but some still think this will be catchy, let's promote mining although we have no serious clue how it will work and there is a 90% chance of being a money pit!

The bright side on this is that it's nice they haven't gone with their plan at 40k/BTC at least they are able to buy the famous dip Bukele keeps hitting it!


You build a city from scratch, you exempt businesses and citizens from taxes, you build the infrastructure for free energy, and somehow magically you will get 6.5% returns!
Is that better than Celsius rates? 

Also heard about the same on twitter and finally after a year they have submitted to securities bill with congress to issue the bitcoin bonds in the country.Altough Nayib has not made official tweet about the same but he has retweeted the Bloomberg report which clearly indicates the sign that they are close to the action.

The bill can be approved before this year Christmas as per some sources so we will see how it goes for the most anticipated fund raising in El Salvador at $1 billion split in half of $500 million.





@fillippone can you find the translated version for it?

If anyone is interested in reading the full 33 page of securities bill then they can find out it here : Bitcoin bonds

Some news about Bitcoin Bonds coming from El salvador.
 



As we highlighter in the thread,the lack of a “bitcoin law”,  a key foundation for  the Volcano bond, was still lacking from El Salvador.
Something is moving according to this sources.

My post was meant to resonate with what @Stompix said: I couldn't be more bullish on bitcoin, but I cannot be bullish on El Salvador, even if their hipster dictator adopted bitcoin as legal tender or got help from some most notable experts from the BTC world.

This debt crisis revealed the weak spot of the Bitcoin Bond Strategy....it wasn't sensible in bull markets; it is even more stupid now in bear markets.

So?

How long are we going to give it?

You are giving up fillippone?

How about we give it until the end of the Calendar year?  That's only 6 months.

We know that bitcoin bear markets can last 5 months to 2 years.. and sometimes we are not even sure if we are out of the bear market, yet.

We surely can have difficulties even knowing how long we had been in a bear market, even though it seems to have had been confirmed around mid-May 2022 when the BTC price dropped below $35k and failed to spring back up in a quick manner..

Maybe if the BTC price were to at least get back above $30k, then some of the El Salvador bitcoin bond investment discussions can resume? 

Really, is nothing being done on all of the various El Salvador bitcoin-related investment fronts, or are there just low key operations taking place in El Salvador (for the time being?)?

Building gets done during bitcoin bear markets?  Hype gets done during bitcoin bull markets?  You are suspecting that El Salvador had overdone the hype portion, and made too many mistakes? 

Oh, who could have thought of that!
The bond was 200% oversubscribed, thousands were ready to invest in this ...scheme! And no word from Bukele?
No word, just like it happened with the 200MW geothermal eco-friendly one in the world bitcoin mining project?
Oh no, after Akon city now there is no Vulcano city?
Man, those surprises one after one, I need a large cup of green tea to keep myself calm, this is overhelming!

Damn, so now we have to go back to square one and use bitcoin for what it was, a payment system that didn't need a third party, and stop using it as a propaganda tool for some wanna-be dictator. Tough choice but I can live with that!

Bitcoin Bond has disappeared.
No law was approved
No news From Bukele
No word from the Bitcoin Bond "architect".

Nothing.

Probably, the global outlook for the Bond market is not the best.
In addition, Bitcoin markets are not really bullish at the moment.
Third, El Salvador is on the brink of a default on its debt.



Of course, the economic impact on the nation's finance of the bitcoin purchase is quite irrelevant, so be warned that the story that the bitcoin law led El Salvador to bankruptcy is "bullshit", to say the least.