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Topic: Everything you wanted to know about Grayscale BTC Trust but were afraid to ask! - page 29. (Read 17091 times)

legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 11105
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
Batman slap would maybe help.
Like I said being nervous these days doesn't help.
I don't really care about these investment vehicles, they're just snake-oil in front of those who I 've called rich kidz.
I prefer the real deal, like all of you.

That's the spirit, Karartma..

Just the mentioning of a batman slap seems to have cheered you up a bit... and maybe our recent move from $45,500 to $49,164 in the past 24 hours has not hurt on-the-spot sentiments, either?
legendary
Activity: 2310
Merit: 1422
Batman slap would maybe help.
Like I said being nervous these days doesn't help.
I don't really care about these investment vehicles, they're just snake-oil in front of those who I 've called rich kidz.
I prefer the real deal, like all of you.
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 11105
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
That's a market that's not accesible for most of us. As usual the filthy riches can get these low hanging fruits as you call them but we can't nothing but peanuts.
I hope GBTC dies soon and never get converted in an ETF. They've to disappear, they've been nothing but a roadblock towards better investment vehicles.
Sorry, I'm a bit nervous these days.

There are already many other, better, investment options.
But remember each of them is sub-optimal to invest directly into Bitcoin.
And if you are writing here, I bet you already know that.

So don't be in anger, but know that you are way in advance of the mass adoption of bitcoin.
Also remember that, quoting Jameson Lopp:

>>>>>>>>
Bitcoin isn't a get rich quick scheme, it's a don't get poor slowly scheme.
<<<<<<<<<

https://twitter.com/lopp/status/1171847107243859968?s=20

Hope it helps to calm you down.

Karartma1 needs something like a batman slap.. or maybe something stronger in order to calm him the fuck down.. maybe the "airplane scene" would work.  Perhaps?  perhaps?

Many of us can appreciate that it does tend to be quite helpful to instruct someone to calm down, also (as you already did that fillippone.. so we are likely to see positive effects from that).

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
That's a market that's not accesible for most of us. As usual the filthy riches can get these low hanging fruits as you call them but we can't nothing but peanuts.
I hope GBTC dies soon and never get converted in an ETF. They've to disappear, they've been nothing but a roadblock towards better investment vehicles.
Sorry, I'm a bit nervous these days.

There are already many other, better, investment options.
But remember each of them is sub-optimal to invest directly into Bitcoin.
And if you are writing here, I bet you already know that.

So don't be in anger, but know that you are way in advance of the mass adoption of bitcoin.
Also remember that, quoting Jameson Lopp:

Quote from: @JamesonLopp
Bitcoin isn't a get rich quick scheme, it's a don't get poor slowly scheme.
https://twitter.com/lopp/status/1171847107243859968?s=20

Hope it helps to calm you down.


legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 11105
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
That's a market that's not accesible for most of us. As usual the filthy riches can get these low hanging fruits as you call them but we can't nothing but peanuts.
I hope GBTC dies soon and never get converted in an ETF. They've to disappear, they've been nothing but a roadblock towards better investment vehicles.
Sorry, I'm a bit nervous these days.

Direct ownership of BTC is a better product, so I don't understand why you give very many shits about rich fucktwats are using to get their BTC exposure.

Hey, don't get me wrong, if you are enrolled in some financial program in which one of the options is GBTC, then sure, you might want to play around with that, including the taxed deferred aspect, but there is more to bitcoin than merely something that could be taxed deferred.. and sure, as an individual, you could set up part of your BTC funds for direct management and taxed deferred as well.. if you were to want that kind of option, which would take some fees to set up and get used to how to do it without violating rules related to that (and those rules are likely to change from time to time, too.. and perhaps even differ state by state and jurisdiction by jurisdiction if outside of the USA).. .

having a foot in both worlds can give you options too.. but there are constant developments in bitcoin as well in terms of potentially having your foot in a variety of words, whether we are talking about various kinds of onchain holding of bitcoin, holding bitcoin through various third parties that are available to you or holding bitcoin on lightning network..

On a a personal level I have never even really thought about whether or not I could get exposure to buying BTC through GBTC, whether directly or on secondary markets, and I don't feel like I am missing anything either, even though I know that there are various ways that I could purposefully cause my lil selfie to get access to GBTC.. but why the fuck would I want to jump through a bunch of hoops and to thereafter feel that I am getting more value.. such purported extra value of such an option is not really that tangible in my thinking Karartma1 even though you want to whine about something that you are feeling as something you are missing out on.. .

Oh and another thing.. one of the greatest as fuck things about bitcoin for poor people who might only have had $5 a week of extra potentially investable income (but actual knowledge of bitcoin and willing to invest directly into bitcoin), is that they could have actually been buying BTC and if they had been doing that for the past 9 years, since 2012, they would already have stacked up about 15 bitcoin (even though they had only invested $2,350 during that time. and pretty damned great front-running returns with a current value of about $710k ... and fuck GBTC.. who gives any shits because this kind of an of insightful poor person could actually held and managed their bitcoin directly and in ways that they can really say fuck you with it..

Quite a great way for poor people to front run the fuck out of both less flexible folks who are invested in financial products and to also front run status quo rich folks who have had little to no clue about bitcoin but they have traditionally had desires to lock normies out of investment opportunities that have only traditionally been available to the status quo connected folks..so part of the power of bitcoin is not needing that kind of insider access (but insider knowledge about bitcoin is good and abilities to excercise long term HODLer thinking and persistent accumulation would have been powerful, even though not many poor peeps have that kind of discipline, either.. even though it would be in their capacities to hone such skills, even with a 7th grader level of formal education).
legendary
Activity: 2310
Merit: 1422
That's a market that's not accesible for most of us. As usual the filthy riches can get these low hanging fruits as you call them but we can't nothing but peanuts.
I hope GBTC dies soon and never get converted in an ETF. They've to disappear, they've been nothing but a roadblock towards better investment vehicles.
Sorry, I'm a bit nervous these days.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23

Institutions are increasing exposure to Grayscale Bitcoin Trust.

Grayscale Bitcoin Trust and Ethereum Trust both saw a large inflow of funds from institutions in the last quarter.

https://blockworks.co/institutional-capital-flows-into-grayscales-bitcoin-and-ethereum-trusts/

It seems like Grayscale Premium is in a subtle uptrend since the capitulation event in May, this is an indication that institutions are re-convinced to hold BTC.

Well, this post didn't age (age?) well.
According to our spreadsheet, the premium has been breaking that "subtle uptrend" and collapsed again to more than 15%:



This has little to do with the restricted shares unlocking. As the below graph there are almost no locked shares left.


Actually, according to our spreadsheet, only  0.3% of the total shares are still locked, and they will be completely gone in two weeks time.

I guess you ware right when saying that flow are coming to GBTC: buying discounted GBTC shares and hedging those via selling the future is an "enhanched" cash and carry position more and more institutional players are willing to take.
This is beginning to get evident in the CME's COT:


https://twitter.com/skewdotcom/status/1427273606652993538?s=20

Buying a discounted GBTC shares, selling the future and cashing 15% discount (eventually rolling the maturity) is a too low hanging fruit not to be picked up!






jr. member
Activity: 60
Merit: 5

Institutions are increasing exposure to Grayscale Bitcoin Trust.

Grayscale Bitcoin Trust and Ethereum Trust both saw a large inflow of funds from institutions in the last quarter.

https://blockworks.co/institutional-capital-flows-into-grayscales-bitcoin-and-ethereum-trusts/

It seems like Grayscale Premium is in a subtle uptrend since the capitulation event in May, this is an indication that institutions are re-convinced to hold BTC.
jr. member
Activity: 54
Merit: 6

Institutions are increasing exposure to Grayscale Bitcoin Trust.

Grayscale Bitcoin Trust and Ethereum Trust both saw a large inflow of funds from institutions in the last quarter.

https://blockworks.co/institutional-capital-flows-into-grayscales-bitcoin-and-ethereum-trusts/
hero member
Activity: 1414
Merit: 574
Four American asset management companies have purchased shares of the Grayscale Bitcoin Investment Trust (GBTC) fund:
1) Ancora Advisors announced the purchase of 13,945 shares of the Grayscale Investments bitcoin fund.  https://twitter.com/MacroScope17/status/1426288419819425792
2) Clear Perspective Advisors from Illinois owns 7,790 shares of GBTC. https://twitter.com/MacroScope17/status/1426314689856868354
3)Parkwood for the period from March 31 to June 30 increased the stake in the bitcoin fund from 93,000 to 125,000 shares. https://twitter.com/MacroScope17/status/1426207659032776709
4) Boston Private Wealth reported that it owns 103,469 shares of GBTC. https://twitter.com/MacroScope17/status/1426203621218267138

In my opinion, it is natural for these 4 institutions to glance at and buy GBTC and ETHE because the crypto market has started to recover.  Even though what they buy is not BTC or ETH directly, yes because they are an investment manager company that has considered many things in the risk they choose.  The amount they buy is not so much when compared to the assets they have but with the successful performance of the crypto market and having a positive impact on GBTC and ETHE will make crypto in the eyes of institutional investors more sexy.  We need a lot of institutional investors to raise fundamental issues in the market so that what was previously predicted can be achieved.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 1501
Four American asset management companies have purchased shares of the Grayscale Bitcoin Investment Trust (GBTC) fund:
1) Ancora Advisors announced the purchase of 13,945 shares of the Grayscale Investments bitcoin fund.  https://twitter.com/MacroScope17/status/1426288419819425792
2) Clear Perspective Advisors from Illinois owns 7,790 shares of GBTC. https://twitter.com/MacroScope17/status/1426314689856868354
3)Parkwood for the period from March 31 to June 30 increased the stake in the bitcoin fund from 93,000 to 125,000 shares. https://twitter.com/MacroScope17/status/1426207659032776709
4) Boston Private Wealth reported that it owns 103,469 shares of GBTC. https://twitter.com/MacroScope17/status/1426203621218267138

legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
Gentle reminder: tomorrow is the last "big" unlock from Grayscale.



After this last unlock, we are essentially done: there aren't anymore locked shares:



Essentially, the Locked shares percentage dropped to zero:



Actual computation show the restricted percentage is now less than 1%, and it is going to drop more tomorrow.

I guess we can finally state the obvious: shares unlock had little to no effect on market price.

legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
As the ETF approval is still pending at the SEC, competitors try to dethrone Grayscale from their monopoly in the Trust market:

Wilshire Phoenix Takes Aim at Grayscale With Rival Bitcoin Trust

Quote
Wilshire Phoenix, a New York-based financial firm, has filed a new amendment to its wShares Bitcoin Commodity Trust (BCT) application. The initial filing was made back in June 2020 and is now expected to launch as early as October this year, assuming regulators green-light the product


Main differences
  • No lockout period when purchasing shares
  • Market making agreements on the secondary market
  • Reduced fees

All these features should help keeping the fund’s NAV very close to market price.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
<…> the trading price of GBTC shares is at a significant premium. Authorized and institutional investors can purchase GBTC stocks at NAV (Net Asset Value), <…>

Please, read the thread before posting, or at least read the OP.
I am very welcoming on new users, who might not have understood something, but at least have demonstrated willingness to learn.
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 11105
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
Due to the structure of the trust, the trading price of GBTC shares is at a significant premium. Authorized and institutional investors can purchase GBTC stocks at NAV (Net Asset Value), but these stocks must be locked for six months before they can enter the secondary market.



I am not sure what you are saying XUNing.  From that top chart, it appears that GBTC stocks can be bought on the secondary market at about 10% below NAV, and I am not even sure if GBTC is selling actual shares at this time... Maybe you can explain the point that you were attempting to make a wee bit better?
member
Activity: 73
Merit: 10
Due to the structure of the trust, the trading price of GBTC shares is at a significant premium. Authorized and institutional investors can purchase GBTC stocks at NAV (Net Asset Value), but these stocks must be locked for six months before they can enter the secondary market.

legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
Grayscale today announced the formal appointment of former Alerian CEO David Lavalle, Senior Managing Director, Global head of ETFs reporting directly to Michael Sonnenschein, CEO of Grayscale, to lead its efforts to transform a bitcoin trust into an exchange-traded fund (ETF). https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2021/08/04/2274526/0/en/Grayscale-Investments-Furthers-Commitment-to-Bitcoin-ETF-Hiring-Global-Head-of-ETFs.html



They started hiring people to transform GBTC into an ETF months, if not years ago.
They must be a very low productivity team...

My guess is that they want to be the first to turn into an ETF, but doing so in the most possible delayed way. As long they can postpone the ETF conversion, the more they can profit from the hefty 2% commission.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 1501
Grayscale today announced the formal appointment of former Alerian CEO David Lavalle, Senior Managing Director, Global head of ETFs reporting directly to Michael Sonnenschein, CEO of Grayscale, to lead its efforts to transform a bitcoin trust into an exchange-traded fund (ETF). https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2021/08/04/2274526/0/en/Grayscale-Investments-Furthers-Commitment-to-Bitcoin-ETF-Hiring-Global-Head-of-ETFs.html


hero member
Activity: 1414
Merit: 574
After the unlocking of the last batch of GBTC, the continued discount of Bitcoin Trust is undergoing a sharp reversal. This significant reversal may be a signal that investors are confident in the recent recovery of BTC.
https://bitcoinexchangeguide.com/gbtc-discount-sees-a-sharp-reversal-as-the-final-unlock-clears/


I don't think the decline in GBTC will have a significant effect on the market because even if it is sold by investors, what they sell is the grayscale stock itself and even if there is volatility in the crypto market it is only the speculators themselves in creating issues over the unlocking of GBTC. We all know that Grayscale has its own competitor such as ETF BTC and we know GBTC is more expensive than BTC.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 1501
The company Wealthfront with assets of $25 billion announced the expansion of the range of services offered, opening customers access to cryptocurrency funds from Grayscale Investments, which includes two cryptocurrency trusts Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC) and Grayscale Ethereum Trust (ETHE).  https://blog.wealthfront.com/cryptocurrency-exposure-at-wealthfront/


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