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Topic: Exchangers - Fake Volumes- FRAUD (Read 1765 times)

legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1004
June 16, 2016, 04:40:57 PM
#50
It is obvious that the Chinese exchanges powerful manipulate the market!
After all, how they would obtain gains, if not charge fees? So what?
The universe of Bitcoin is a free market, where players need to learn to live with this kind of thing.

with a fraud? Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1004
June 16, 2016, 11:00:15 AM
#49
as long the centralized exchangers will be used, the BTC price will be manipulated in their favor(serving different interests).  on a regulated market, this is called fraud.
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1009
JAYCE DESIGNS - http://bit.ly/1tmgIwK
June 16, 2016, 06:35:38 AM
#48
they should build a decentralized exchange directly into core client, no need a third party software

that would be majestic to have

That wont happen because it would add too much weight to bitcoin nodes.

The bitcoin daemon has only 1 purpose to run the network, and most nodes do only this.

If you want to trade, you will have to run a different server, like bitsquare, which is already standalone.

The same way if you want to do commerce you run openbazaar.

You cant integrate non essential parts into the core, because it would burden the nodes.
legendary
Activity: 3248
Merit: 1070
June 16, 2016, 06:27:49 AM
#47
they should build a decentralized exchange directly into core client, no need a third party software

that would be majestic to have
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1009
JAYCE DESIGNS - http://bit.ly/1tmgIwK
June 16, 2016, 06:02:05 AM
#46
This is why https://bitsquare.io is a good project , decentralized bitcoin exchange , and localbitcoin.com is also good.

Other upcoming decentralized exchanges are: http://mercuryex.com  ,  http://www.coincer.org  ,  http://www.supernet.org  ,  https://etherex.org ,
                                                                    https://bcexchange.org

+1

Yes exactly, i keep a thread about them here, read here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/exciting-bitcoin-projects-1420155
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1137
June 16, 2016, 12:44:02 AM
#45
how can you know if they give the result of manipulation of the trade? I think wasn't important as long as the price continues to rise and we are careful with the price falls so we not get suffered great losses.

this is only good as long as the price is rising, it is obvious that everybody is happy about a rise.
but what if the price reaches a maximum because of a bubble, and the this bubble burst and price falls down? that would be bad, the same as the time up until now (i am talking about the fall from 1100 to 200) although that was slow one, but those days was pretty bad.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
June 15, 2016, 11:46:04 PM
#43
how can you know if they give the result of manipulation of the trade? I think wasn't important as long as the price continues to rise and we are careful with the price falls so we not get suffered great losses.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 251
Shit, did I leave the stove on?
June 15, 2016, 11:37:58 PM
#42
The Chinese are known for dishonest business practices and manipulating the Bitcoin price on the exchanges wouldn't surprise me, but if they are making the price go up artificially isn't this in favor of the customers as well? The exchange operators will get higher fees from the 'real' transactions and the Bitcoin users will get more fiat for converting their Bitcoins. Do you think when Bitcoin gets legalized in China the government will still be lenient towards such fraudulent moves by the exchanges or they will try to rectify the issue and make their trading platforms more transparent? The thing is that even though they are tricking users into believing that their statistics are true, no one is getting scammed in the process because people are actually getting a higher price for their coins. I don't condone what the exchanges are doing, but it's not such a serious felony is it?
member
Activity: 74
Merit: 10
June 15, 2016, 07:24:25 PM
#41
It is obvious that the Chinese exchanges powerful manipulate the market!
After all, how they would obtain gains, if not charge fees? So what?
The universe of Bitcoin is a free market, where players need to learn to live with this kind of thing.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1004
June 15, 2016, 07:10:13 PM
#40
I think we are definitely seeing an exaggerated price increase in such a short period of time. I won't be surprise if there is another "Willy bot" behind this.

However, I do think the current price is reflecting the current value of each coin. Perhaps a slow increase between now an halving is reasonable. If we ever get pass $1000 in the next few weeks, I am sure it is a bubble.

of course, it's "Willy bot" behind this and the exchanger's cartel is in action.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1004
June 15, 2016, 12:56:23 PM
#39
Bitfinex, Kraken, Coinbase, Bitstamp all charge fees. It is too expensive to manipulate volume on those exchanges as every trade will cost you money.

The only exchanges where the volume may be suspect are the ones that don't charge fees - Huobi and the other Chinese ones. But some of their trade is definitely real.

This is nonsense - if the bots are run by the exchange then the fees "cost nothing" (as it is coming from their own profits).

You can't trust *any* exchanges volume in Bitcoin (and never have been able to).

People seem to confuse Bitcoin exchanges with things like regulated stock exchanges - a very naive thing to be doing.



It depends on where they are based. In the western world, an exchange with that kind of volume and which is charging fees on every trade, is expected to show revenue in line with that and pay tax on the profits generated. There is no benefit in pretending you are making more than you really are because you only attract the attention of the taxman who wants his share. Tax authorities: keeping business from over stating revenue since the dawn of time.

MTGox was registered in Japan and believe me, you have to pay a lot of taxes there. Even so, MtGox used the Willy bot. It's very simple to setup a bot to make FREE transactions(no fee for trades that it's making).
The rest of the users are setup to be charged. Smiley

All the exchangers are using bots and that's why they can manipulate the price. They talk to each other, they know when the price will go up or down. I am referring to the biggest ones that I mentioned above. It's a fraud and the  BTC China CEO admitted an obvious thing...

Yes, if you are financial licensed it's harder to make tricks but it's possible if you setup free charge for your bots Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1046
June 15, 2016, 12:37:02 PM
#38
I think the transaction is real and they are using bot i think to control the volume and to attract people to invest their money this is a strategy if most of the altcoin owner they are using bot to boost the price..but result of decreases.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
June 15, 2016, 12:27:05 PM
#37
As a side note, I think there is a lot of manipulation in most markets. We would probably all cry if we knew the truth about our 401k.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1087
June 15, 2016, 12:21:17 PM
#36

Well even if all of those - that is three out of how many?

And I'm still waiting to see public auditing reports (from any Bitcoin exchange).


Yup. I think we've seen time and time again that customers don't actually care about it, until they suddenly do. It's the margin thing and volume that keeps them coming back to the other ones no matter how many bizarro blips there are let alone total failures. Greed always wins.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
June 15, 2016, 12:16:38 PM
#35
I am not a supporter of conspiracy theories at all.

The simple test about an exchange is how fast you can buy or sell coins and then how fast you can withdraw your coins or fiat (nothing else much matters IMO).

Perhaps if some independents set up something that just does such tests every day we might have a better guide as to which exchanges are actually the best ones to be using.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
June 15, 2016, 12:15:04 PM
#34
Any Evidence?

It should be up to those trying to claim that western exchanges are legit to prove that they are (so far I've seen no proof at all).

Proof is a rare thing here.  Cheesy
I would guess that some exchanges are doing what they can to manipulate their trades. It is harder to believe in a conspiracy between lots of exchanges. And impossible to believe in a massive conspiracy between all mines, as stated in the original post.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
June 15, 2016, 12:07:41 PM
#33
Any Evidence?

It should be up to those trying to claim that western exchanges are legit to prove that they are (so far I've seen no proof at all).
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
June 15, 2016, 12:06:21 PM
#32
Any Evidence?
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
June 15, 2016, 12:05:48 PM
#31
Also - in regards to "what is taxed" the simple answer is "fiat" (not crypto).

So if any tax department is looking at anything they are only going to look at the fiat bank accounts.

My guess is that any "auditing" that is going on is purely on the "fiat" side and that the actual crypto side is not audited at all.
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