Face-to-face Bitcoin trading | Bitcointalksearch.org

Igebotz

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Quote from: Oceat on November 21, 2021, 10:14:14 AM

As for the risk of trading physically/face-to-face there are guidelines out there on how to avoid or minimize the risk of getting mobbed. And also, I like the idea of having physical shops exclusive for crypto users only and it should be guarded with a SG or police just like how the banks did it.

Cryptocurrency is illegal in the county, and you're advocating that people create a safe environment for face-to-face transactions supervised by the cops? (Government) Having a crypto-related app on your phone is a serious crime in Nigeria right now; there have been reports in the media of some young people being detained for having the Binance app on their phones..

Quote from: The Cryptovator on November 21, 2021, 12:25:46 PM

Trading Bitcoin and using Bitcoin for your needs is quite a different scenario. Trading Bitcoin for cash face to face is quite risky. I heard a story in my country, one of my known persons was blackmailed when he went to trade Bitcoin face to face. All the fund was taken by the so-called peer gang. Also, the seller couldn't file a police case because Bitcoin isn't legal in my country.

Also, if you're at risk of being assassinated or abducted, especially in third-world nations where insecurity is high, it's best to trade face-to-face with some close friends rather than strangers you don't know. Unless you care more about money than your life, I wouldn't recommend becoming engaged in f2f.

The Cryptovator

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Trading Bitcoin and using Bitcoin for your needs is quite a different scenario. Trading Bitcoin for cash face to face is quite risky. I heard a story in my country, one of my known persons was blackmailed when he went to trade Bitcoin face to face. All the fund was taken by the so-called peer gang. Also, the seller couldn't file a police case because Bitcoin isn't legal in my country. There would happen more issues if trading Bitcoin face to face. But definitely, you can use Bitcoin for needs like shopping or a coffee shop. There shouldn't be any problem. So yes, I discourage trading Bitcoin face to face.

Oceat

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Quote from: mirakal on November 21, 2021, 07:31:11 AM

Well, that's not really safe that's why I do trade only with our local exchange even if the rate is lower compared to the standard rate. There's always a risk when trading face to face as you never know if the person you are transacting with is true to his intention, who knows, he might be planning something bad for you or might tell other people about you.

That's why we have an exchange that follows the same policy with the banks which is to protect our privacy.

The government making new regulations gave them a hard time to trade since it might cost more money to trade with their local exchange that's why crypto community in Nigeria created a new way to lessen the struggle by putting some physical shops/kiosks so that the F2F trading would be possible.

As for the risk of trading physically/face-to-face there are guidelines out there on how to avoid or minimize the risk of getting mobbed. And also, I like the idea of having physical shops exclusive for crypto users only and it should be guarded with a SG or police just like how the banks did it.

GeorgeJohn

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Most of people is condemning face to face bitcoin transaction, at least at of hundred percent (%100) or seventy five percent (%75) is against face to face transaction. But i have done it severally far back when i have not even had the pre-knowledge of the forum, and this happened in year 2015 when out hundred people living in a region is only ten percent knows what is bitcoin, then it was moving smoothly without any problem even government then in my country is not against bitcoin because bitcoin was not officially known like now, then before you see someone that will buy bitcoin from you is very difficult, then it wasn't risk to sell bitcoin face to face, you will even enjoy the transaction because your physically cash been fiat will be issued to you before the transaction will kick off.

mirakal

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Well, that's not really safe that's why I do trade only with our local exchange even if the rate is lower compared to the standard rate. There's always a risk when trading face to face as you never know if the person you are transacting with is true to his intention, who knows, he might be planning something bad for you or might tell other people about you.

That's why we have an exchange that follows the same policy with the banks which is to protect our privacy.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Crypdon on November 21, 2021, 05:09:53 AM

Check out this article just released last week. This is why you should not do F2F trades with a stranger, unless it's just a small about to buy small goods

Let's take a look at the three incidents discussed in the article:

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The man was lured into an industrial building

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The criminals coaxed her into an office

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after he sent the cryptocurrency, they kicked him out of the vehicle.

Every single one made a very basic mistake of not trading in a public place. If someone asks you to go somewhere with them, be in to a building, an office, a warehouse, a vehicle, whatever, then it's because they want to do something there that they don't want to do in public. There is no scenario in which that turns out well for you, and is a massive red flag which should lead to you immediately walking away from the trade.

Bisq have a nice guide on face to face trading here: https://bisq.wiki/Face-to-face_(payment_method)#Meeting_your_trading_partner. If you follow all these steps, the chances of something going wrong is very small.

Crypdon

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Check out this article just released last week. This is why you should not do F2F trades with a stranger, unless it's just a small about to buy small goods

https://beincrypto.com/crypto-trader-kidnapped-tortured-ransom/

Quote

A 39-year-old Hong Kong man was kidnapped on Nov 6, 2021, and held for ransom after agreeing to meet a buyer of Tether in Kowloon Bay in Hong Kong. The man was lured into an industrial building, where he was physically attacked and forced to give up his smartphone and passwords to trading platforms. He was held at a building in Tai Po in northern Hong Kong for almost a week. His captors demanded HK$30M from his family as a ransom

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Quote from: SquirrelJulietGarden on November 17, 2021, 11:53:35 AM

I did not mean that we must to complicate our trades this way. Multiple choices are available so why do we complicate it with face to face trading? We have much simplier option to do trade and finish it smoothly without any fear of robbery or murder.

Because face to face trading is more final and also more private than many other methods. If I'm trading with a brand new partner, maybe I don't want to use something like a bank transfer which can be reversed if the other party phones their bank and claims they were hacked. With cash, there is no chance for chargebacks, reversals, or similar. Further, any electronic method of transferring fiat still requires a name and account number be transferred to the other party - perhaps I don't want to do that.

There are pros and cons to every method. If you personally don't want to trade face to face, then that's absolutely fine, but there are thousands of people who do, and do so regularly, without any issues.

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Quote from: ShowOff on November 18, 2021, 02:02:30 PM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on November 18, 2021, 09:51:20 AM

The problem is that 95% of the government see decentralization as a threat and limitation of their power because they never want a system where the people won't be under their control that's the reason why some of them are against Bitcoin.

Government are not against bitcoin, but they don't like something uncontrollable like bitcoin decentralization.

You're saying two different things. You claim governments are only against decentralization which I agreed but they are automatically against Bitcoin because decentralization is the foundation of Bitcoin. Therefore, I am not wrong when I said they are against Bitcoin and I don't know why they cannot for once appreciate the technology that unites people around the world despite the race and language differences.

Quote from: ShowOff on November 18, 2021, 02:02:30 PM

Face-to-face transaction involving bitcoin and other digital asset are very risky if they are carried out in large amount. There have been case where someone was robbed before for making face-to-face transaction, I wouldn't do it without someone else's supervision or never touch it.

Face to face cryptocurrency transaction is dangerous even it is not a large amount.

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on November 18, 2021, 09:51:20 AM

The problem is that 95% of the government see decentralization as a threat and limitation of their power because they never want a system where the people won't be under their control that's the reason why some of them are against Bitcoin.

Government are not against bitcoin, but they don't like something uncontrollable like bitcoin decentralization. I can tell you that there is no compulsion whatsoever to have bitcoin under government control if you don't agree with centralization. So ignore the rule and make transaction with some P2P platform or with some trusted users on this forum to keep you financially private.

Face-to-face transaction involving bitcoin and other digital asset are very risky if they are carried out in large amount. There have been case where someone was robbed before for making face-to-face transaction, I wouldn't do it without someone else's supervision or never touch it.

Igebotz

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Quote from: KingsDen on November 17, 2021, 03:04:19 PM

If the government has informants, their informants trade volume will be little, so it can be safe to trade with old reputable members with high volume of accomplished trades.

So, if a real user wants to create a p2p trading business, are you saying he should be overlooked because he has 0 or few trade counts? Trading with just reputable people is not a solution, but rather a new obstacle.

Quote from: stompix on November 18, 2021, 07:10:42 AM

Quote from: KingsDen on November 16, 2021, 02:30:24 PM

How exactly do commercial banks know the account of people trading cryptocurrencies?
P2P as used in centralised exchanges does not expose anyone's details.

Pretty easy to discover as I said in the other topics about Nigeria.....]

The easiest way to identify is through the payment method; if buyer continue to send the last digits of any amount, it raises suspicion. If you open a transaction costing $530 04, it's always a good idea to pay only $530 without the last two digits, as I've learned and advised my colleagues to do.

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Quote from: passwordnow on November 17, 2021, 12:20:33 PM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on November 17, 2021, 11:08:23 AM

I don't know if i am the only one having the impression that the Nigerian government is following the footstep of the Chinese.

Sort of since they're becoming too hard to their people if it's about bitcoin transactions. We mostly thought that they're going to be that loose on it and will just back up their people.
But it tends to be not and instead of supporting a new means of living for their people, they're making it hard for them.

The problem is that 95% of the government see decentralization as a threat and limitation of their power because they never want a system where the people won't be under their control that's the reason why some of them are against Bitcoin.

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Quote from: KingsDen on November 16, 2021, 02:30:24 PM

How exactly do commercial banks know the account of people trading cryptocurrencies?
P2P as used in centralised exchanges does not expose anyone's details.

Pretty easy to discover as I said in the other topics about Nigeria.

You check the user who does a lot of transactions to personal accounts, both receiving and sending money with some limits that do this non-stop no matter what day or what hour it is.
How many poeple in that country doing anything other than trading crypto for fiat would do such a thing tens of times in a day? What business could you have to do such a thing, receiving payments after payments from poeple all over the country? Then you link those accounts, then you check their history, 3 queries on a database and you nearly found them all.

It's so easy and so obvious I wonder why poeple really thought they could get away with it especially using a centralized payment solution for that like banks or any other thing.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on November 16, 2021, 01:43:12 PM

So use a decentralized exchange like Bisq, where you lock up the bitcoins in escrow before you go and meet the other party.

Yeah, but...

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Quote from: SatoPrincess on November 16, 2021, 03:29:16 AM

If privacy is important to you, Face2face trading is a bad idea.

But of course, privacy should be important to anyone who engages in cryptocurrencies (even in other financial transactions too). Decentralization and anonymity are the core parts of Bitcoin establishment. Anything that contravenes that should be frowned at. I, for one, won't even indulge in a so called face2face trading. What for? That's a bad idea and will expose the person of a hodler and endanger them. It's even enough exposure trading on telegram groups and on other social media sites with bank accounts known, let alone seeing the traders and meeting them in person. Whoever is indulging in that should think twice. It's a bad idea that will surely not end well.

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on November 16, 2021, 02:52:26 PM

Quote from: KingsDen on November 16, 2021, 02:30:24 PM

How exactly do commercial banks know the account of people trading cryptocurrencies?

People are guessing that CBN are having informants on p2p crypto trading platforms to buy and sell cryptocurrencies too in a way to know Nigerians dealing in crypto.

This is hilarious. How can a government have such a time for that? Leaving many governmental duties to send people to sign up on centralised exchanges in order to hunt people her citizens trading cryptocurrencies.

Well, I think every problem has a solution. In the P2P platforms, there are ratings of trust due to the volume of fraudless trades you have performed.
If the government has informants, their informants trade volume will be little, so it can be safe to trade with old reputable members with high volume of accomplished trades.

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on November 17, 2021, 11:08:23 AM

I don't know if i am the only one having the impression that the Nigerian government is following the footstep of the Chinese.

Sort of since they're becoming too hard to their people if it's about bitcoin transactions. We mostly thought that they're going to be that loose on it and will just back up their people.
But it tends to be not and instead of supporting a new means of living of their people, they're making it hard for them.

SquirrelJulietGarden

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on November 16, 2021, 01:43:12 PM

If you are that concerned about robbery, then trade in daylight in a public place with CCTV as I said above. Bring a friend with you. Bring something for self defense as well if legal in your jurisdiction.

I did not mean that we must to complicate our trades this way. Multiple choices are available so why do we complicate it with face to face trading? We have much simplier option to do trade and finish it smoothly without any fear of robbery or murder.

Quote from: SquirrelJulietGarden on November 16, 2021, 11:51:58 AM

So use a decentralized exchange like Bisq, where you lock up the bitcoins in escrow before you go and meet the other party.

This is the best option. Do trades with trade partners on decentralized exchanges like Bisq. Do trades online, peer to peer and saves time (no need for movements from home to trade location) and be safe!

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I don't know if i am the only one having the impression that the Nigerian government is following the footstep of the Chinese.
1) They stop banks and other payment services from supporting crypto transactions before they create their own CBDC.
2) They now place want to stop the p2p crypto trading.
When things happen like this some enthusiasts can go extra just to achieve their wants but face to face crypto trading is still a No for me.

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Quote from: Upgrade00 on November 16, 2021, 09:07:21 AM

Quote from: Bttzed03 on November 16, 2021, 04:33:03 AM

I cannot open the link but is it really that bad? Can authorities really do that? Are all types of crypto transactions there a criminal act now? I just came across another topic where they plant agents on P2P platforms like Binance and Paxful and use some crypto keywords to trigger the bank and close the customer account.

It is actually that bad and the government here are doing all they can to frustrate Bitcoin transactions inorder to maintain the control they have over the people; Bitcoin offers a level of freedom, especially to the younger generation who are quite frustrated with the state of the nation. After the ban, users flooded to P2P platforms same way people started using VPNs a lot after the Twitter ban, this sort of makes the ban irrelevant, so the government allegedly started infiltrating P2P platforms to block accounts of users still using Bitcoin.

I tend to believe the infiltration but how about the legal arrests of users caught in the act of selling or buying BTC? That's what I really wanted to know because it's only a ban issued by the central bank AFAIK which means it shouldn't be a criminal act. I've read about authorities allegedly arresting some people they believed are involved in crypto and extort money but that's illegal.

Quote from: Upgrade00 on November 16, 2021, 09:07:21 AM

Quote from: Bttzed03 on November 16, 2021, 04:33:03 AM

Security and privacy are definitely important but if they cannot sell or spend their BTC anywhere else, they might as well take the risks of F2F.

A face to face transaction does not really remove the risk involved, the government could still infiltrate it and still block accounts involved.

It doesn't but it still minimizes the risk of bank account closure using the method I mentioned (or at least delay it until you cash out).

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on November 16, 2021, 02:26:53 PM

I can never go for face-to-face crypto trading in a country that kidnapping has been on the rise which has been due to bad economy.

There are exceptions when it comes to kidnapping, but in developed countries this isn't a usual phenomenon. In any way, if you're someone who respects their privacy, then using centralized exchanges contradicts.

Quote from: Charles-Tim on November 16, 2021, 02:26:53 PM

It is not that common on the crypto news, but there are few cases of physical attack that I have read about on crypto news, the last one I read was on cointelegraph last year when a woman that has trusted her client but came to her office all to steal her money and have nothing to offer. It was a successful operation. If I could get the link I would have posted it here.

Yes, I've read for such incident in the past too, here in Greece. Two guys had arranged to exchange fiat for XLM, one of those went to the bathroom for a while after he had sent the XLM for cash and the buyer (who disappointingly, was young) went in and ripped him off. The victim talked to Binance and fortunately got their XLM back.

Topic: Face-to-face Bitcoin trading (Read 380 times)