Face-to-face Bitcoin trading - page 2.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: KingsDen on November 16, 2021, 02:30:24 PM

How exactly do commercial banks know the account of people trading cryptocurrencies?

People are guessing that CBN are having informants on p2p crypto trading platforms to buy and sell cryptocurrencies too in a way to know Nigerians dealing in crypto.

You can check this:
Re: Nigeria (Naija)
Nigerian banks tracking customer accounts for crypto trading
Nigeria’s central bank reportedly freezes crypto traders’ accounts

Quote from: KingsDen on November 16, 2021, 02:30:24 PM

Again, I read also somewhere that the Nigeria government has implemented thier own digital currency which operates in blockchain.

How can CBN prove blockchain technology was used? But yet said not to be cryptocurrency, I mean eNaira. CBDCs are not cryptocurrencies. Or, did you see any CBDC listed on sites like coinmarketcap or Coingecko? No. They are not cryptocurrencies.

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I read from the link dropped by OP and I saw this.

Quote

P2P transactions are on the decline partly because the Central Bank of Nigeria recently ordered commercial banks to freeze the accounts of individuals trading crypto. The directive has once again reiterated its stance in a post-no-debit circular dated November 3rd 2021, issued by J.Y. Mamman, the Bank’s Director of Banking Supervision.

How exactly do commercial banks know the account of people trading cryptocurrencies?
P2P as used in centralised exchanges does not expose anyone's details.
Maybe unless the sender puts crypto terminologies in the narration of the bank transfer. But if they can agree to be making transfers without narrations, I think everyone will be safe.
Again, I read also somewhere that the Nigeria government has implemented thier own digital currency which operates in blockchain.
If this is true, how can they be fighting against what they have embrace?

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on November 16, 2021, 11:50:10 AM

In a face to face arrangement, the people don't mind each other's business and therefore, don't ask for personal information. In centralized exchanges, they may require even your blood type.

It is not that common on the crypto news, but there are few cases of physical attack that I have read about on crypto news, the last one I read was on cointelegraph last year when a woman that has trusted her client but came to her office all to steal her money and have nothing to offer. It was a successful operation. If I could get the link I would have posted it here.

Nigeria is not a peaceful country like before, the rate of abduction and fiat for ransom has been on the rise, to the extent even kings and some other leaders are kidnapped and abductors demanding for ransom, not to talk of normal citizens.

I am very sure this will not be a good idea in the country. It is easy to know that Mr A/ Mrs/ Miss A is into crypto, easy to visit him or her and ask him/her of his or her phone and other devices, looking for crypto wallets and release of coins, or his or her life.

I can never go for face-to-face crypto trading in a country that kidnapping has been on the rise which has been due to bad economy.

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Quote from: SquirrelJulietGarden on November 16, 2021, 11:51:58 AM

Face to face trading is risky. Do you bring any security guard to protect you from risk of attacks by your trade partner?

Do you bring a security guard with you when you use an ATM or go to the bank? Both of those are just as risky as going to a trade - anyone watching knows you have valuable assets on your person. People carry cash and mobile phones and jewellery and car keys. People carry gold in to pawn shops, and walk out of stores carrying laptops and tablets. Carrying some bitcoin or cash to a face to face trade is no more inherently risky than what billions of people are doing every single day.

If you are that concerned about robbery, then trade in daylight in a public place with CCTV as I said above. Bring a friend with you. Bring something for self defense as well if legal in your jurisdiction.

Quote from: SquirrelJulietGarden on November 16, 2021, 11:51:58 AM

It is the reason for the creation of Escrow service and Peer to peer marketplaces or decentralized exchanges. You don't have to meet another person to finish a trade. If you want to do it, please do it with cash, with fiat, not with Bitcoin.

So use a decentralized exchange like Bisq, where you lock up the bitcoins in escrow before you go and meet the other party.

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Face to face trading is risky. Do you bring any security guard to protect you from risk of attacks by your trade partner?

I don't like this idea that contains so many risk. It is the reason for the creation of Escrow service and Peer to peer marketplaces or decentralized exchanges. You don't have to meet another person to finish a trade. If you want to do it, please do it with cash, with fiat, not with Bitcoin.

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In a face to face arrangement, the people don't mind each other's business and therefore, don't ask for personal information. In centralized exchanges, they may require even your blood type.

Quote from: SatoPrincess on November 16, 2021, 04:01:43 AM

It is not used as a currency perse it is simply traded.

Note that currencies are meant to be traded/exchanged. Their purpose isn't to only be used as a medium of exchanging goods and services. An example is Forex trading. Some other times, there's need to exchange USD with EUR. (e.g., If you left the US and went to Europe)

Quote from: Magicalking on November 16, 2021, 05:13:32 AM

Bitcoin is a digital currency encrypted on the Blockchain

There's nothing encrypted in the block chain. That's why we call it transparent.

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Quote from: SatoPrincess on November 16, 2021, 03:29:16 AM

A robbery can easily be arranged.

You are at risk of robbery every time you leave your house, or even if you don't. Every time you shop in public, or use an ATM, or visit the bank, or carry a wallet and phone, etc. Arrange the trade in a well populated area during daytime, maybe even somewhere with CCTV cameras like a large mall or airport. The chances of being robbed there are far smaller than the chances of being robbed when you walk down the street alone at night.

Quote from: SatoPrincess on November 16, 2021, 03:29:16 AM

Also your identity is compromised, anyone can see how much bitcoins you have on the Blockchain, the transactions you made.

So take the coins you want to trade, pass them through a mixer, and then send them to a fresh address prior to the trade. Now they can't be linked back to your main wallets.

Quote from: SatoPrincess on November 16, 2021, 03:29:16 AM

using this face to face transaction means you are putting a face and a name to the money.

Why would you give away your name? And you can cover your face extremely easily, especially now loads of people are wearing face masks because of COVID.

Quote from: SatoPrincess on November 16, 2021, 03:29:16 AM

Government officials can pretend they are traders and apprehend you on the spot.

If that is a concern of yours, then don't trade face to face, and arrange for blind drops or cash in mail to an anonymous PO Box or similar. It's still far more private than trading on any centralized exchange.

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Quote from: Bttzed03 on November 16, 2021, 04:33:03 AM

I cannot open the link but is it really that bad? Can authorities really do that? Are all types of crypto transactions there a criminal act now? I just came across another topic where they plant agents on P2P platforms like Binance and Paxful and use some crypto keywords to trigger the bank and close the customer account.

It is actually that bad and the government here are doing all they can to frustrate Bitcoin transactions inorder to maintain the control they have over the people; Bitcoin offers a level of freedom, especially to the younger generation who are quite frustrated with the state of the nation. After the ban, users flooded to P2P platforms same way people started using VPNs a lot after the Twitter ban, this sort of makes the ban irrelevant, so the government allegedly started infiltrating P2P platforms to block accounts of users still using Bitcoin.

Quote from: Bttzed03 on November 16, 2021, 04:33:03 AM

Security and privacy are definitely important but if they cannot sell or spend their BTC anywhere else, they might as well take the risks of F2F.

A face to face transaction does not really remove the risk involved, the government could still infiltrate it and still block accounts involved.

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Quote from: SatoPrincess on November 16, 2021, 03:29:16 AM

"The creative Nigeria crypto community has devised an avenue to escape the bothersome CBN intrusion through the introduction of a new trading platform called Face2Face. This involves contacting potential buyers on the P2P platforms and meeting in an agreed location to exchange funds".
This creativity of the Nigerian crypto community is very risky. A robbery can easily be arranged. Also your identity is compromised, anyone can see how much bitcoins you have on the Blockchain, the transactions you made. It's all on record on the Blockchain...using this face to face transaction means you are putting a face and a name to the money. Government officials can pretend they are traders and apprehend you on the spot. There are so many ways this could go wrong. If privacy is important to you, Face2face trading is a bad idea.

https://diutocoinnews.com.ng/nigeria-crypto-p2p-drops-f2f-emerges/7390/

Bitcoin is a digital currency encrypted on the Blockchain and is transferred from peer to peer. You cannot cut off peer to peer from the system. Bitcoin cannot also be considered a currency if it doesn't change hands or isn't used to pay for goods or services

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I doubt every trading platform there could be categorized as honeypot. Nevertheless, the risks isn't much different if government spy internet connection, forcing tech company (e.g. social media and server provider) to hand over user data or the trading activity use local bank.

I see it like at customs: based on rules and also some randomness, they can check transactions here and there, or, as said, try to trade themselves. One may be lucky, another one may be caught. The risk is there. I don't know how big though.

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Quote from: SatoPrincess on November 16, 2021, 03:29:16 AM

~ Government officials can pretend they are traders and apprehend you on the spot. There are so many ways this could go wrong. If privacy is important to you, Face2face trading is a bad idea.

https://diutocoinnews.com.ng/nigeria-crypto-p2p-drops-f2f-emerges/7390/

I cannot open the link but is it really that bad? Can authorities really do that? Are all types of crypto transactions there a criminal act now? I just came across another topic where they plant agents on P2P platforms like Binance and Paxful and use some crypto keywords to trigger the bank and close the customer account. Security and privacy are definitely important but if they cannot sell or spend their BTC anywhere else, they might as well take the risks of F2F.

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Quote from: SatoPrincess on November 16, 2021, 03:29:16 AM

Also your identity is compromised, anyone can see how much bitcoins you have on the Blockchain, the transactions you made.

That does not stop you from practicing privacy and/or anonymity.

For example, you transact fiat to bitcoin with someone. After, you use as mixer to tumble the coin, the person will not be able to trace the fund link to you again on blockchain. You can even mix it and divide the bitcoin into different addresses and effectively making use of coin control while making transaction. But, this does not yet fully address the fact that face-to-face meetup for transaction can result to harm for one party.

Quote from: SatoPrincess on November 16, 2021, 03:29:16 AM

There are so many ways this could go wrong. If privacy is important to you, Face2face trading is a bad idea.

I totally agree to this, even if there are still other ways to make people not to link your identity to the bitcoin bought by making use of mixers, this does not change the fact that he knows he transacted bitcoin with you physically. The person may know your work place, your home address and many things about you like the places you like going. This may later lead to harm. I totally not agreeing with face-to-face p2p trading.

There are still options, I mean decentralized exchanges like Bisq, Hodlhold, Localcryptos. People can still make use of decentralized exchange for P2P trading. But I am wondering if the Nigerian CBN are also there trying to buy and sell bitcoin to people.

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Quote from: SatoPrincess on November 16, 2021, 04:01:43 AM

Here Bitcoin isn't being used to pay for goods and services. It is not used as a currency perse it is simply traded. This is another form of p2p trading created to avoid the eyes of the Nigerian government. Hope you get my point

No, I don't get it, sorry. What's the difference between trading bitcoin for paper money, trading bitcoin for diamonds, or trading paper money for diamonds for example? Isn't still trading? Aren't the risks for getting robbed the same?

The only part I've missed was that bitcoin is no longer legally accepted by financial institutions in Nigeria. And that may make any trading platform there a honeypot. That's what should be emphasized.

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on November 16, 2021, 03:50:08 AM

Quote from: SatoPrincess on November 16, 2021, 03:29:16 AM

"The creative Nigeria crypto community has devised an avenue to escape the bothersome CBN intrusion through the introduction of a new trading platform called Face2Face. This involves contacting potential buyers on the P2P platforms and meeting in an agreed location to exchange funds".
This creativity of the Nigerian crypto community is very risky. A robbery can easily be arranged. Also your identity is compromised, anyone can see how much bitcoins you have on the Blockchain, the transactions you made. It's all on record on the Blockchain...using this face to face transaction means you are putting a face and a name to the money. Government officials can pretend they are traders and apprehend you on the spot. There are so many ways this could go wrong. If privacy is important to you, Face2face trading is a bad idea.

https://diutocoinnews.com.ng/nigeria-crypto-p2p-drops-f2f-emerges/7390/

I disagree with the title. Bitcoin was designed to pay for goods and services. This can be done in some cases from the comfort of your home and sometimes - especially if physical things are involved - face to face.

Here Bitcoin isn't being used to pay for goods and services. It is not used as a currency perse it is simply traded. This is another form of p2p trading created to avoid the eyes of the Nigerian government. Hope you get my point

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Welp, no one gets to decide if a certain way of transacting with their bitcoin is "Bitcoin ethics" or not. Every single way of transacting with bitcoin has it's own positives and negatives. In this case, the positive is that you can accept physical cash.

As for the privacy argument, there's a reason why people should practice proper coin control[1].

[1] https://nopara73.medium.com/coin-control-is-must-learn-if-you-care-about-your-privacy-in-bitcoin-33b9a5f224a2

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Quote from: SatoPrincess on November 16, 2021, 03:29:16 AM

"The creative Nigeria crypto community has devised an avenue to escape the bothersome CBN intrusion through the introduction of a new trading platform called Face2Face. This involves contacting potential buyers on the P2P platforms and meeting in an agreed location to exchange funds".
This creativity of the Nigerian crypto community is very risky. A robbery can easily be arranged. Also your identity is compromised, anyone can see how much bitcoins you have on the Blockchain, the transactions you made. It's all on record on the Blockchain...using this face to face transaction means you are putting a face and a name to the money. Government officials can pretend they are traders and apprehend you on the spot. There are so many ways this could go wrong. If privacy is important to you, Face2face trading is a bad idea.

https://diutocoinnews.com.ng/nigeria-crypto-p2p-drops-f2f-emerges/7390/

I disagree with the title. Bitcoin was designed to pay for goods and services. This can be done in some cases from the comfort of your home and sometimes - especially if physical things are involved - face to face. And if paper money is chosen as counterpart for bitcoin, face to face it the way.

Robbery is possible in the same way if you go with the cash in the pocket to buy an used car. One has to properly think it over and do as it's good for him. I've heard of good trades, I've heard of robberies too.

In the "authorities" part, P2P exchange with bank transfer is similarly dangerous: authorities will know your bank account, then your details. Or some may use hacked bank accounts to send you money. Or some will pretend it was a mistake and revert fiat transaction.

There are plenty of ways to be caught/exposed or robbed, whether you go face to face or not. It's a reality and one has to understand what he's doing. Bitcoin is valuable and one has to be careful.
But I don't see this bitcoin's fault, neither the trading platform's.

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Quote

The P2P crypto transaction platform in Nigeria has witnessed huge decline following the Central Bank of Nigeria unending clampdown leading to the emergency of a new transaction model called F2F (Face To Face) peculiar to the Nigeria cryptocurrency ecosystem.
The creative Nigeria crypto community has devised an avenue to escape the bothersome CBN intrusion through the introduction of a new trading platform called Face2Face. This involves contacting potential buyers on the P2P platforms and meeting in an agreed location to exchange funds. A source hinted to diutocoinnews that plans are underway to set up Face2Face physical shops/kiosks to facilitate crypto business completely detaching from using CBN regulated banks."The creative Nigeria crypto community has devised an avenue to escape the bothersome CBN intrusion through the introduction of a new trading platform called Face2Face. This involves contacting potential buyers on the P2P platforms and meeting in an agreed location to exchange funds".

In this scenario a robbery can easily be arranged. Also your identity is compromised, anyone can see how much bitcoins you have on the Blockchain, the transactions you made. It's all on record on the Blockchain...using this face to face transaction means you are putting a face and a name to the money. Government officials can pretend they are traders and apprehend you on the spot. There are so many ways this could go wrong. If privacy is important to you, Face2face trading is a bad idea.

https://diutocoinnews.com.ng/nigeria-crypto-p2p-drops-f2f-emerges/7390/

Topic: Face-to-face Bitcoin trading - page 2. (Read 380 times)