Topic: Faith in a higher power. - page 2. (Read 4796 times)

Obligatory Big Bang Theory explanation of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1YUmJBN6vs

Talking about time...time is another dimension.

The first dimension is a line. You need 1 coordinate to fix yourself in it -- think of a number line. If I tell you "1" it can only be that point.

The second dimension is a flat surface. You need 2 coordinates (x, y) to fix yourself. This is your standard Cartesian plane.

Three dimensions is what we experience the most of. You need 3 coordinates (x,y,z) to fix yourself. This is why, as far as we are concerned in daily life, triangles and tripods are the most stable geometry.

Four dimensions we experience a sliver of every moment. You need 4 coordinates to fix yourself -- not only do you need to anchor your location in 3d space, but at a specific location in time. Like in a computer simulation -- you need to specify where, and at what point in time.

Sure we only experience an infinitesimally small piece of "time" at any moment, but mathematically it's there. Now, ala Slaughterhouse Five, you could have "creatures" that lived in the 4th dimension, and moved through it just like we move through our world. But that's getting a little out there.

Well that is basically the same question. What determines the memories you have?

What past experience?  You mean the 'memories' you have that you observe in the present?

I would use the example of:

If I just took a dump and my toilet won't flush, what should I do? Should I pray for it to start working again? I think no.

Or, should I try to figure out what is wrong with it? If in the past I have discovered that usually this is because the chain disconnected from the flapper, shouldn't I check this first?

Science is just taking this strategy to a new level. Most religious people will live their lives like this, but make some exceptions.

Because it is a testable and repeatable theory.

to hopefully predict blocks while mining.

...and hopping, while at that.

 

What determines one's abstract representation of an object? Past experience?


I think it is more fundamental than that. Why does anyone hold the belief that the past can be used to predict the future?

I guess it really boils down to whether the belief that "the established laws of the universe will continue to function in the future" can be considered faith or not. There's no reason to believe they won't. There's no reason to believe anything claimed by religion will.

Evident means "that which is apparent."  When you interpret some real-world event or thing as "evidence," you then refocus your present awareness on your abstract representation of it.  But, extrapolating meaning from that evidence is what requires a comparison of past and future states.

Are you familiar with the terms "false positive" and "false negative"? If so, how would you have mainstream science distinguish these occurrences from "anomalies"?

The concept of "evidence" requires some kind of continuity between past-future and different points in space. If you do not see any connection between past events and your current experiences (or events that occur across the room from you and those that occur nearby)... then I don't really know what to tell you. You would not survive long if you let this determine your behavior.

Math, and faith in accurate and/or comprehensive interpretation of real-world objects and events.  Consider this -- a definition of a thing is essentially a theory of it.  When researchers operationalize their variables, they are creating or reusing miniature theories of these variables.  Not only that, but the variables themselves are miniature theories of the real-world things or events they explain.  The whole process by which we cognitively know anything depends upon a whole chain of assumptions that could only be proven to be true if we could compare their past and future states.  I just don't see, nor have I ever seen, concrete proof of a past and future.  Actually, you could argue that there's evidence that suggests past and future states do not exist because the present is the current evidence we have.  Even the theory of relativity seems to imply that individuals are only stratified temporally and that we basically all live in a relative present.

But on the whole, I agree with you.  I just think religion and science have a lot more in common than people generally think.  

Edit: I always found the following semantic musing interesting, though I admit its a stretch:

When I doubt, I don't know.  (e.g. I doubt the Cubs will win the World Series, but hey, who really knows?)
If doubt is related to a lack of knowledge, does faith relate to knowledge? 

See...the science that I know says "it's likely the sun will rise tomorrow, but we can't answer for sure, because of the possibility that there will be an anomalous event, like an alien abducting the sun. Or it might just go out. But given what we've experienced in the past, and from the data we've managed to collect, our money's on the sun rising."

Does science rule out a more powerful, conscious being? No. In fact it says that somewhere, one should (but doesn't have to) exist. Based on the science I know, I do have to have faith that Math is absolute. But that seems to be it.  

Not sure if I would use faith for "expectation for something based on prior results/observation." Religion doesn't have "prior results/expectations," so it may be stretching the word a bit. But I do see your point.

Faith is a belief in something without evidence for it.

Science takes evidence observed in a continual present and uses it to try to make future predictions without any actual evidence of a future whatsoever.

Will you see the sunrise tomorrow (assuming you're an early-bird and also assuming I don't receive any complaints about the fact that the sun doesn't 'rise')?  Do you have any evidence to suggest that it will, or only evidence that suggests it has in the past?

More than being essential to both religion and science, I think faith is essential to survival.

What the hell is a 'higher power'? I've only ever encountered the term when watching AA meetings on "Law and Order". Can I have a definition? Is it some kind of god-thing?

Explain please

Faith is essential to both religion and science.

What kind of anomalous data, and what is the explanation for it? This is the first time I'm hearing that atheists or science ignores data...