If I were to be owner of (let's say apple iTunes store):
Buy 15 000BTC @ 100$
Press release about accepting bitcoin in 3-10 days
LIFTOFF!
sell 15 000BTC @ 200$
Press release about change of heart, no bitcoin accepting in near future, sorry
Topic: false signal resulted rally in China, and it won't stop. - page 5. (Read 17587 times)
So the chinese government will want to ban bitcoin when it is larger, since it cannot bend the knee.
How?
How?
My biggest fear, other than the volume being fake, is that this is just a bunch of high roller chinese gamblers (the Chinese love gambling) and they will all dump at once at the slightest sign of a reversal
Yes, that's the question: who are the Chinese behind this rally? Are they gamblers or investors? I believe they are not gamblers only: a lot of Chinese are desperate in search of place to invest. "important source of income" via printing press is additive drug to the governments, losing this kind of income is not a bad thing.
The banking sectors are becoming obsolete and parasitic, a cleansing process is long overdue.
For governments, Bitcoin is like bitter pills, good to your health, but hard to swallow.
It seems we are in different paradigms. In your paradigm, the state is people's servant. In mine, the state is people's parasite. You beleive that state strives to benefit us. In mine, it doesn't care about us and does good things only when forced to it. The banking sectors are becoming obsolete and parasitic, a cleansing process is long overdue.
For governments, Bitcoin is like bitter pills, good to your health, but hard to swallow.
I am Interested about following
https://doc.research-and-analytics.csfb.com/docView?language=ENG&source=emfromsendlink&format=PDF&document_id=1010517251&extdocid=1010517251_1_eng_pdf&serialid=VLRQ4TgNxWzk%2FTvHinuua6Xm4ULQYuKKG73B%2FntsRZo%3D
I heard from some friend who was at conference in sz last week (China Internet financial forum). sentiment on p2P finance is optimistic , and some speakers had nice words to say about bitcoin
https://doc.research-and-analytics.csfb.com/docView?language=ENG&source=emfromsendlink&format=PDF&document_id=1010517251&extdocid=1010517251_1_eng_pdf&serialid=VLRQ4TgNxWzk%2FTvHinuua6Xm4ULQYuKKG73B%2FntsRZo%3D
I heard from some friend who was at conference in sz last week (China Internet financial forum). sentiment on p2P finance is optimistic , and some speakers had nice words to say about bitcoin
This can develop to a WIN-WIN-WIN situation:
1. Chinese government, which is already flooded with US toilet papers and recently made angry voice over the debt ceiling and threat of default, sees promoting Bitcoin as a way to strengthen their national wealth and undermine dollar hegemony.
2. US dollar, while may suffer short to mid term due to BTC competition, can be a beneficiary in the long term because this forces the US government to clean up their act and rein in the printing press. Besides, I really don't see US government has the constitution power to ban a network protocol, if so, the founding fathers would be rolling in their graves.
1. Chinese government, which is already flooded with US toilet papers and recently made angry voice over the debt ceiling and threat of default, sees promoting Bitcoin as a way to strengthen their national wealth and undermine dollar hegemony.
2. US dollar, while may suffer short to mid term due to BTC competition, can be a beneficiary in the long term because this forces the US government to clean up their act and rein in the printing press. Besides, I really don't see US government has the constitution power to ban a network protocol, if so, the founding fathers would be rolling in their graves.
This will be lose for both Chineze and US governments. They will lose their important source of income: the printing press. And their banks will lose a lot of customers (why keep money in bank if bitcoin's % is better). So it's in interest of both governments to squash BTC. Our hope is that instead of jointly killing BTC they will use it to fight each other. Then they will lose and we will win.
"important source of income" via printing press is additive drug to the governments, losing this kind of income is not a bad thing.
The banking sectors are becoming obsolete and parasitic, a cleansing process is long overdue.
For governments, Bitcoin is like bitter pills, good to your health, but hard to swallow.
More straight question: why Chinese government should take it a priority to fight the U.S.? Perhaps the people in the U.S. think they are really important and we are here everyday figuring how to fight the U.S. The chief enemy of Chinese government is, frankly, Chinese people. So is the second and third enemy. U.S. lines up the fifth enemy of Chinese government. You are not that important in this decision making.
China blocks western news outlet and facebook; don't have any idea China is doing this to fight U.S., they do it to fight us the people.
That's because westerners (me included) usually struggle and fail to understand China, and usually you fear what you don't understand.China blocks western news outlet and facebook; don't have any idea China is doing this to fight U.S., they do it to fight us the people.
It's quite a widespread sentiment to fear that China wants to conquer the whole world, hence people react to that.
(I'm not saying this makes any sense, mind, I'm just trying to explain why many people think that China thinks we are enemies)
My biggest fear, other than the volume being fake, is that this is just a bunch of high roller chinese gamblers (the Chinese love gambling) and they will all dump at once at the slightest sign of a reversal, and any whale (Chinese or otherwise) that decides to capitulate will initiate a massive crash.
Would be nice to see double or even single digits again.
yeah, i really dont have enough coins for this yet
My biggest fear, other than the volume being fake, is that this is just a bunch of high roller chinese gamblers (the Chinese love gambling) and they will all dump at once at the slightest sign of a reversal, and any whale (Chinese or otherwise) that decides to capitulate will initiate a massive crash.
Would be nice to see double or even single digits again.
really good to have this perspective now. thank you, OP. i'm not sure how to feel now!
My biggest fear, other than the volume being fake, is that this is just a bunch of high roller chinese gamblers (the Chinese love gambling) and they will all dump at once at the slightest sign of a reversal, and any whale (Chinese or otherwise) that decides to capitulate will initiate a massive crash.
Good morning. I am surprised to see so many replies overnight.
Before answering please take a look at the new price now, Chinese trader's price is close to price of MtGox, very unusual (China used to be big export country so the price of bitcoins was often the cheapest of all global markets).
People always see what they wish to see. I also read Chinese bitcoin forums, and there is a recent poster, awaring baidu cannot stir up such a rally by the event itself, attribute the rally to that "also in the U.S. after silkroad traders feel positive because bitcoin is purged from crime". Today's price is rising as usual, please mind that it is definitely not solid, Chinese traders are not confident - you have to decide for your own if there will be a huge bull market (as confidence gets confirmed and grow) or an early rush sell. I myself betted the former and am exposed to the risk of latter, because it is too risky to be prudent: the confidence may get past to the west and change the mood globally.
Before answering please take a look at the new price now, Chinese trader's price is close to price of MtGox, very unusual (China used to be big export country so the price of bitcoins was often the cheapest of all global markets).
People always see what they wish to see. I also read Chinese bitcoin forums, and there is a recent poster, awaring baidu cannot stir up such a rally by the event itself, attribute the rally to that "also in the U.S. after silkroad traders feel positive because bitcoin is purged from crime". Today's price is rising as usual, please mind that it is definitely not solid, Chinese traders are not confident - you have to decide for your own if there will be a huge bull market (as confidence gets confirmed and grow) or an early rush sell. I myself betted the former and am exposed to the risk of latter, because it is too risky to be prudent: the confidence may get past to the west and change the mood globally.
I think the west is starting to think that the Chinese speculators have gone totally mad now.
Bitstamp and Gox want to take a little rest and consolidate and retrace a bit to test and build support, but the Chinese bulls are just relentless and keep on going almost without pause. It's a lot of fun to see all the enthusiasm there, but we're getting into dangerous territory now by going up this fast. One small thing can trigger a huge correction and since there has almost been no time to build any meaningful support the fall will be quite deep. We've been through this before, so people here are still wary of this. I think this is why Gox and Bitstamp have now become more hesitant to follow China, before it was all fun and good but now things start to become a little scary even for them. Please tell the Chinese speculators to take it a little easy on the greed or they might be shooting themselves in the foot later. 
Just download bitcoinium app. Set price alarm with hardcore mode on, make sure you dont have any battery savers on your phone..
Wala, chose your trigger points and its sure to wake you if something happens
I've gotten quite a few trades to it. And quite a few lost because battery saver stopped it from updating lmao.
Good morning. I am surprised to see so many replies overnight.
Before answering please take a look at the new price now, Chinese trader's price is close to price of MtGox, very unusual (China used to be big export country so the price of bitcoins was often the cheapest of all global markets).
People always see what they wish to see. I also read Chinese bitcoin forums, and there is a recent poster, awaring baidu cannot stir up such a rally by the event itself, attribute the rally to that "also in the U.S. after silkroad traders feel positive because bitcoin is purged from crime". Today's price is rising as usual, please mind that it is definitely not solid, Chinese traders are not confident - you have to decide for your own if there will be a huge bull market (as confidence gets confirmed and grow) or an early rush sell. I myself betted the former and am exposed to the risk of latter, because it is too risky to be prudent: the confidence may get past to the west and change the mood globally.
Before answering please take a look at the new price now, Chinese trader's price is close to price of MtGox, very unusual (China used to be big export country so the price of bitcoins was often the cheapest of all global markets).
People always see what they wish to see. I also read Chinese bitcoin forums, and there is a recent poster, awaring baidu cannot stir up such a rally by the event itself, attribute the rally to that "also in the U.S. after silkroad traders feel positive because bitcoin is purged from crime". Today's price is rising as usual, please mind that it is definitely not solid, Chinese traders are not confident - you have to decide for your own if there will be a huge bull market (as confidence gets confirmed and grow) or an early rush sell. I myself betted the former and am exposed to the risk of latter, because it is too risky to be prudent: the confidence may get past to the west and change the mood globally.
I think the west is starting to think that the Chinese speculators have gone totally mad now.
Bitstamp and Gox want to take a little rest and consolidate and retrace a bit to test and build support, but the Chinese bulls are just relentless and keep on going almost without pause. It's a lot of fun to see all the enthusiasm there, but we're getting into dangerous territory now by going up this fast. One small thing can trigger a huge correction and since there has almost been no time to build any meaningful support the fall will be quite deep. We've been through this before, so people here are still wary of this. I think this is why Gox and Bitstamp have now become more hesitant to follow China, before it was all fun and good but now things start to become a little scary even for them. Please tell the Chinese speculators to take it a little easy on the greed or they might be shooting themselves in the foot later. Good morning. I am surprised to see so many replies overnight.
Before answering please take a look at the new price now, Chinese trader's price is close to price of MtGox, very unusual (China used to be big export country so the price of bitcoins was often the cheapest of all global markets).
People always see what they wish to see. I also read Chinese bitcoin forums, and there is a recent poster, awaring baidu cannot stir up such a rally by the event itself, attribute the rally to that "also in the U.S. after silkroad traders feel positive because bitcoin is purged from crime". Today's price is rising as usual, please mind that it is definitely not solid, Chinese traders are not confident - you have to decide for your own if there will be a huge bull market (as confidence gets confirmed and grow) or an early rush sell. I myself betted the former and am exposed to the risk of latter, because it is too risky to be prudent: the confidence may get past to the west and change the mood globally.
Before answering please take a look at the new price now, Chinese trader's price is close to price of MtGox, very unusual (China used to be big export country so the price of bitcoins was often the cheapest of all global markets).
People always see what they wish to see. I also read Chinese bitcoin forums, and there is a recent poster, awaring baidu cannot stir up such a rally by the event itself, attribute the rally to that "also in the U.S. after silkroad traders feel positive because bitcoin is purged from crime". Today's price is rising as usual, please mind that it is definitely not solid, Chinese traders are not confident - you have to decide for your own if there will be a huge bull market (as confidence gets confirmed and grow) or an early rush sell. I myself betted the former and am exposed to the risk of latter, because it is too risky to be prudent: the confidence may get past to the west and change the mood globally.
I think the west is starting to think that the Chinese speculators have gone totally mad now.
Bitstamp and Gox want to take a little rest and consolidate and retrace a bit to test and build support, but the Chinese bulls are just relentless and keep on going almost without pause. It's a lot of fun to see all the enthusiasm there, but we're getting into dangerous territory now by going up this fast. One small thing can trigger a huge correction and since there has almost been no time to build any meaningful support the fall will be quite deep. We've been through this before, so people here are still wary of this. I think this is why Gox and Bitstamp have now become more hesitant to follow China, before it was all fun and good but now things start to become a little scary even for them. Please tell the Chinese speculators to take it a little easy on the greed or they might be shooting themselves in the foot later.
Good morning. I am surprised to see so many replies overnight.
Before answering please take a look at the new price now, Chinese trader's price is close to price of MtGox, very unusual (China used to be big export country so the price of bitcoins was often the cheapest of all global markets).
People always see what they wish to see. I also read Chinese bitcoin forums, and there is a recent poster, awaring baidu cannot stir up such a rally by the event itself, attribute the rally to that "also in the U.S. after silkroad traders feel positive because crime is purged from bitcoin".
Today's price is rising as usual, and mind the sharp raise of all Chinese exchang's price at GMT 00:00, which is local time 8 in the morning. The excitement yesterday must have made some birds rise early. Please mind that it is definitely not solid, Chinese traders are not confident - you have to decide for your own if there will be a straight bull market as confidence gets confirmed and grow, or an early rush sell. I myself betted the former and am exposed to the risk of latter, because it is too risky to be prudent: the confidence may get past to the west and change the mood globally.
Exactly my take on the things.
How do you even come to that point? This is completely mind-bogging! The government sees tools as means to control people, and obedience as Chinese be, do you think we love to obey? That we have the slightest idea to adore our government? People has to be chained to stay obedient! In my personal opinion, under this pressure people is more likely to develop to scoundrels than docile, begetting more chains.
Answer your first question: I don't even bother to look up, one person 120 Q-coin per month is unbelievable nowadays. Such a limitation would serves better the purpose to test the chain - how willing a company complies with governmental rules that is against its own interest. In reality QQ makes money on entertaining people, which is never bad for a centralized power.
And your second question: I think bitcoin is too small to matter now. Unlike in the U.S. where banks own the government (at least I heard so) here government owns the bank. It look like the kind of issue that the government will take direct action with its prosecutors and police, not through policies in the People's Bank of China. (FYI In China the person prosecuted is always "found" guilty.)
Zeng was not that stupid to challange his government; he didn't. Government is made of people; the official he believe that backs him is removed from high position and his pervious investment stuck in the goverment. He probably tried to get the money back, and was likely killed for that reason. Before you assume him a tough guy, know that he may be well docile with the previous official, just got caught a unmerciful disaster. A good lesson for power strugglers. Also keep in mind that a leader of a province in China has as many man under his reign as an emperor in Europ, not to be trifled with.
So you saw for yourself the roaring 20s franticness.
Can you back that? I also suspected they have fake volume with their 0% fee for a while, but it may even be true.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
This is unrealistic. I took it as a typical U.S. idea. Why Chinese government think much of U.S. when it comes to bitcoin? More straight question: why Chinese government should take it a priority to fight the U.S.? Perhaps the people in the U.S. think they are really important and we are here everyday figuring how to fight the U.S. The chief enemy of Chinese government is, frankly, Chinese people. So is the second and third enemy. U.S. lines up the fifth enemy of Chinese government. You are not that important in this decision making.
China blocks western news outlet and facebook; don't have any idea China is doing this to fight U.S., they do it to fight us the people.
Before answering please take a look at the new price now, Chinese trader's price is close to price of MtGox, very unusual (China used to be big export country so the price of bitcoins was often the cheapest of all global markets).
People always see what they wish to see. I also read Chinese bitcoin forums, and there is a recent poster, awaring baidu cannot stir up such a rally by the event itself, attribute the rally to that "also in the U.S. after silkroad traders feel positive because crime is purged from bitcoin".
Today's price is rising as usual, and mind the sharp raise of all Chinese exchang's price at GMT 00:00, which is local time 8 in the morning. The excitement yesterday must have made some birds rise early. Please mind that it is definitely not solid, Chinese traders are not confident - you have to decide for your own if there will be a straight bull market as confidence gets confirmed and grow, or an early rush sell. I myself betted the former and am exposed to the risk of latter, because it is too risky to be prudent: the confidence may get past to the west and change the mood globally.
In other words, it looks like sentiment drove Baidu Jiasule to accept bitcoins, rather than their acceptance driving sentiment. The Baidu story isn't what caused China to catch the Bitcoin bug; it's proof that China has caught the Bitcoin bug.
Exactly my take on the things.
One thing I'm wondering about though is more on-topic: if the Chinese government got obedience from most Bitcoin users in China, could that qualify for the obedience-system?
How do you even come to that point? This is completely mind-bogging! The government sees tools as means to control people, and obedience as Chinese be, do you think we love to obey? That we have the slightest idea to adore our government? People has to be chained to stay obedient! In my personal opinion, under this pressure people is more likely to develop to scoundrels than docile, begetting more chains.
I read that in 2007, the government of China limited Q-coin purchases to 120 Q-coins per month for each person. Is that limit still enforced?
Bitcoin provides a way to convert yuan to Bitcoins to dollars or euros or yen, bypassing the exchange controls of the State Administration of Foreign Exchange. Once someone has bought Bitcoins, there is no way to prevent them from converting them to another currency outside China. Will the People's Bank of China do something to stop that? Or is Bitcoin too small to matter?
Bitcoin provides a way to convert yuan to Bitcoins to dollars or euros or yen, bypassing the exchange controls of the State Administration of Foreign Exchange. Once someone has bought Bitcoins, there is no way to prevent them from converting them to another currency outside China. Will the People's Bank of China do something to stop that? Or is Bitcoin too small to matter?
Answer your first question: I don't even bother to look up, one person 120 Q-coin per month is unbelievable nowadays. Such a limitation would serves better the purpose to test the chain - how willing a company complies with governmental rules that is against its own interest. In reality QQ makes money on entertaining people, which is never bad for a centralized power.
And your second question: I think bitcoin is too small to matter now. Unlike in the U.S. where banks own the government (at least I heard so) here government owns the bank. It look like the kind of issue that the government will take direct action with its prosecutors and police, not through policies in the People's Bank of China. (FYI In China the person prosecuted is always "found" guilty.)
Shocked by billionaires being executed 
Zeng was not that stupid to challange his government; he didn't. Government is made of people; the official he believe that backs him is removed from high position and his pervious investment stuck in the goverment. He probably tried to get the money back, and was likely killed for that reason. Before you assume him a tough guy, know that he may be well docile with the previous official, just got caught a unmerciful disaster. A good lesson for power strugglers. Also keep in mind that a leader of a province in China has as many man under his reign as an emperor in Europ, not to be trifled with.
OP i rarely see a Chinese member that can make such honest statement. Most Chinese on the interweb always talk fantasy about China which in turn gives all the Western ppl a delusion of China becoming like a Western Capitalist country. I also blame stupid mainstream media,.... frankly they're all owned by big corporations which all have benefits from working with China.
So you saw for yourself the roaring 20s franticness.
Chinese speculators waiting for a thing to spark a rally makes a lot of sense. They were the ones who had the first ASIC miners. So they must have stockpiled a lot of BTC waiting to sell at high prices. The exchanges help them with 0% fee for some fake volume et voilá a new bubble is born. Another famous chinese pump and dump strategy. Be warned ladies.
Can you back that? I also suspected they have fake volume with their 0% fee for a while, but it may even be true.
This is important, because bitcoin is a bigger threat to a weakening fiat currency than to a strengthening one. China is still a long ways to go before their monetary and fiscal policy isn't as loose as a 13 year old Thai prostitute's vagina, but they are "tightening" and the U.S. is still "loosening." China's CB is also buying massive quantities of gold, and they encourage their citizens to purchase gold. So in some ways, Bitcoin is less of a threat to them and more of a threat to the dollar. They may not mind it so much since it may hurt their "enemy" more than it hurts them.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
This is unrealistic. I took it as a typical U.S. idea. Why Chinese government think much of U.S. when it comes to bitcoin? More straight question: why Chinese government should take it a priority to fight the U.S.? Perhaps the people in the U.S. think they are really important and we are here everyday figuring how to fight the U.S. The chief enemy of Chinese government is, frankly, Chinese people. So is the second and third enemy. U.S. lines up the fifth enemy of Chinese government. You are not that important in this decision making.
China blocks western news outlet and facebook; don't have any idea China is doing this to fight U.S., they do it to fight us the people.
This will be lose for both Chineze and US governments. They will lose their important source of income: the printing press. And their banks will lose a lot of customers (why keep money in bank if bitcoin's % is better). So it's in interest of both governments to squash BTC. Our hope is that instead of jointly killing BTC they will use it to fight each other. Then they will lose and we will win.
The old collusion/prisoner's dilemma situation, right there.
This can develop to a WIN-WIN-WIN situation:
1. Chinese government, which is already flooded with US toilet papers and recently made angry voice over the debt ceiling and threat of default, sees promoting Bitcoin as a way to strengthen their national wealth and undermine dollar hegemony.
2. US dollar, while may suffer short to mid term due to BTC competition, can be a beneficiary in the long term because this forces the US government to clean up their act and rein in the printing press. Besides, I really don't see US government has the constitution power to ban a network protocol, if so, the founding fathers would be rolling in their graves.
This will be lose for both Chineze and US governments. They will lose their important source of income: the printing press. And their banks will lose a lot of customers (why keep money in bank if bitcoin's % is better). So it's in interest of both governments to squash BTC. Our hope is that instead of jointly killing BTC they will use it to fight each other. Then they will lose and we will win. 1. Chinese government, which is already flooded with US toilet papers and recently made angry voice over the debt ceiling and threat of default, sees promoting Bitcoin as a way to strengthen their national wealth and undermine dollar hegemony.
2. US dollar, while may suffer short to mid term due to BTC competition, can be a beneficiary in the long term because this forces the US government to clean up their act and rein in the printing press. Besides, I really don't see US government has the constitution power to ban a network protocol, if so, the founding fathers would be rolling in their graves.
Great post. It is a clear, concise and well-formulated summary that made sense of my garbled understanding of China, pieced together from bits an pieces of information from half-way around the world.
I'm not going to discuss the obvious geopolitical benefits of adopting Bitcoin - because in some sense they apply to very many other countries.
One thing I'm wondering about though is more on-topic: if the Chinese government got obedience from most Bitcoin users in China, could that qualify for the obedience-system?
I'm not going to discuss the obvious geopolitical benefits of adopting Bitcoin - because in some sense they apply to very many other countries.
One thing I'm wondering about though is more on-topic: if the Chinese government got obedience from most Bitcoin users in China, could that qualify for the obedience-system?
@zhangweiwu: Thanks for informative post, greatly appreciated.
Also mind that Q-coin has a different position than Bitcoin. As said, in China (people think that) nothing significant can take root without being part of the government. This holds true with Q-coin. The company behind Q-coin doesn't hesitate to follow governmental scrutiny - other big players baidu, sina all show obedience to the central governmental the same way, and are allowed to live. The game that is called regulation in the west is equivalent to the game of obedience here. So it is not the question whether bitcoin can be regulated, but whether bitcoin can obey. Bitcoin trading can be regulated but bitcoin itself bends to no one - which begets the question whether or not it will be allowed to live.
On the other hand, if Bitcoin becomes so significant that the government has to make a decision, and they decided to let it live, the acceptance of bitcoin will have no consumer psychological barrier, because, as you said, we are pretty familiar with virtual currencies.
Some questions:On the other hand, if Bitcoin becomes so significant that the government has to make a decision, and they decided to let it live, the acceptance of bitcoin will have no consumer psychological barrier, because, as you said, we are pretty familiar with virtual currencies.
I read that in 2007, the government of China limited Q-coin purchases to 120 Q-coins per month for each person. Is that limit still enforced?
Bitcoin provides a way to convert yuan to Bitcoins to dollars or euros or yen, bypassing the exchange controls of the State Administration of Foreign Exchange. Once someone has bought Bitcoins, there is no way to prevent them from converting them to another currency outside China. Will the People's Bank of China do something to stop that? Or is Bitcoin too small to matter?
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