Fear will replace greed (Single digit Bitcoins in 2014). - page 2.

piramida

legendary

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Borsche

Quote from: porc on December 21, 2013, 02:12:30 PM

Another Hero member, shaming posters who disagree with bitcoin. If somebody is posting bullish price projections you applaud from the sidelines. So transparent.

No shaming, it seems logical when people believe in what they are saying and can back it up. You are stating certain bold predictions about bitcoin price, which seem outrageous at the moment, but you have nothing to back it up, therefore trolling? We need to establish that

You see, while it might seem to you that your position is somehow fresh or original, we here witness trolls going back to 2011 who declare bitcoin as dead just because they can't understand the idea. None so far was ready to back it up with something substantial, though. Needless to say, none was right so far, too.

porc

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: piramida on December 21, 2013, 11:45:18 AM

Quote from: porc on December 18, 2013, 07:12:41 PM

Bitcoin below 10 dollars in 2014.

Oh prophet, here is your path to great riches then: http://bitbet.us/bet/672/btc-will-hit-1000-without-dropping-to-100/

Yeah, I know it is unfair if you don't believe in the BTC future. Here's a fairer deal - pick a trusted community member, escrow him any amount of BTC you want, and I will send him the same amount of fiat at the current rate. In case bitcoin reaches $10 in 2014, you get my fiat. I get your BTC otherwise. Deal?

Your topic would have much more weight than a fart in the water that it is now. You can show you really believe what you type here.

Another Hero member, shaming posters who disagree with bitcoin. If somebody is posting bullish price projections you applaud from the sidelines. So transparent.

porc

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: NorbyTheGeek on December 21, 2013, 12:00:05 PM

After looking at your argument, it appears to be mostly assumption and presumption.

Quote from: porc on December 07, 2013, 10:30:32 AM

Bitcoin is going up in price because people believe it will be used as a medium of exchange and store of value. If they realise this wont happen it will collapse in price. So lets look at these two aspects.

1) Medium of exchange.

Bitcoin is only a medium of exchange when merchants accept it and hold onto it. Right now merchants are dumping bitcoin for dollars, so its not being used as a medium of exchange. This btw. also throws the transaction cost benefit argument right out of the window (spread).

Are you a merchant accepting bitcoin? If so, you can speak to your own experience, but you cannot assume that all merchants are instantly dumping bitcoin for fiat. While I am not a merchant, I do use my bitcoin income to purchase items, rather than just exchanging them for fiat.

Quote from: porc on December 07, 2013, 10:30:32 AM

Now will merchants ever accept bitcoin and hold onto them?
No.

Why?

a) Governments have already effectively made it impossible for people to use bitcoin as a medium of exchange, as they expect taxes to be paid on bitcoin gains. Thus it cant function as a medium of exchange (same goes for gold btw.). Unless Government loses its control on its money monopoly this law wont be altered.

Governments expect taxes on all income. Why would bitcoin be different? Are you saying that USD can't function as a medium of exchange because governments expect taxes to be paid when you gain USD?

Quote from: porc on December 07, 2013, 10:30:32 AM

b) Governments will prohibt merchants from accepting bitcoins. Again: They will never give up their monoply on money.

You can't overgeneralize. Some governments may. Other governments have already accepted bitcoin as a good idea.

Quote from: porc on December 07, 2013, 10:30:32 AM

2) Store of Value

After people realize that merchants are not adopting bitcoin and that it is not used as a medium of exchange, it will collapse in price. Will anybody store significant wealth in Bitcoin after this spectacular collapse? Not likely.

Your earlier arguments already have flaws, so this conclusion is not valid.

Quote from: porc on December 07, 2013, 10:30:32 AM

Also Bitcoin is a technology, that can be outcompeted by other altcoins. Your wallet can be hacked. The average citizen cant judge if the code can or can not be hacked and thus more bitcoins created. If you want to store wealth over a long period of time investing in a technology is not the best and easiest option. Also Bitcoin is not useful or wanted. If you ask a Bitcoiner what can I do with it they will say: dump it on the next guy it will go up in price! Gold and Silver where always wanted (jewlery and nowadays industry) and thats why they became MONEY in the first place! They have unique properties and everybody love to hold them in their hand. This will always be the case ensuring significant value and acceptance. Nothing like this can be said for bitcoins. Thus I dont believe bitcoin will function as a store of value in any significant way.

This paragraph reads like a combination of FUD combined with wild generalized assumptions.

I'm not saying you're wrong about the exchange rate of bitcoin dropping. But your arguments are flawed.

I do wonder what your motivation is for these posts. Why come to a Bitcoin forum and try to spread a message that we're all doomed? Unless you're just trying to stir up an argument. At that, my friend, is the definition of a troll.

Try to understand my arguments before posting. You have not grasped any arguments under 1). The Arguments under 2) are summarized more clearly in the second link (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3926046) which you ignored. It is laughable that you call my "earlier arguments flawed", as you did not understand them in the first place.

NorbyTheGeek

full member

Activity: 201

Merit: 100

After looking at your argument, it appears to be mostly assumption and presumption.

Quote from: porc on December 07, 2013, 10:30:32 AM

Bitcoin is going up in price because people believe it will be used as a medium of exchange and store of value. If they realise this wont happen it will collapse in price. So lets look at these two aspects.

1) Medium of exchange.

Bitcoin is only a medium of exchange when merchants accept it and hold onto it. Right now merchants are dumping bitcoin for dollars, so its not being used as a medium of exchange. This btw. also throws the transaction cost benefit argument right out of the window (spread).

Are you a merchant accepting bitcoin? If so, you can speak to your own experience, but you cannot assume that all merchants are instantly dumping bitcoin for fiat. While I am not a merchant, I do use my bitcoin income to purchase items, rather than just exchanging them for fiat.

Quote from: porc on December 07, 2013, 10:30:32 AM

Now will merchants ever accept bitcoin and hold onto them?
No.

Why?

a) Governments have already effectively made it impossible for people to use bitcoin as a medium of exchange, as they expect taxes to be paid on bitcoin gains. Thus it cant function as a medium of exchange (same goes for gold btw.). Unless Government loses its control on its money monopoly this law wont be altered.

Governments expect taxes on all income. Why would bitcoin be different? Are you saying that USD can't function as a medium of exchange because governments expect taxes to be paid when you gain USD?

Quote from: porc on December 07, 2013, 10:30:32 AM

b) Governments will prohibt merchants from accepting bitcoins. Again: They will never give up their monoply on money.

You can't overgeneralize. Some governments may. Other governments have already accepted bitcoin as a good idea.

Quote from: porc on December 07, 2013, 10:30:32 AM

2) Store of Value

After people realize that merchants are not adopting bitcoin and that it is not used as a medium of exchange, it will collapse in price. Will anybody store significant wealth in Bitcoin after this spectacular collapse? Not likely.

Your earlier arguments already have flaws, so this conclusion is not valid.

Quote from: porc on December 07, 2013, 10:30:32 AM

Also Bitcoin is a technology, that can be outcompeted by other altcoins. Your wallet can be hacked. The average citizen cant judge if the code can or can not be hacked and thus more bitcoins created. If you want to store wealth over a long period of time investing in a technology is not the best and easiest option. Also Bitcoin is not useful or wanted. If you ask a Bitcoiner what can I do with it they will say: dump it on the next guy it will go up in price! Gold and Silver where always wanted (jewlery and nowadays industry) and thats why they became MONEY in the first place! They have unique properties and everybody love to hold them in their hand. This will always be the case ensuring significant value and acceptance. Nothing like this can be said for bitcoins. Thus I dont believe bitcoin will function as a store of value in any significant way.

This paragraph reads like a combination of FUD combined with wild generalized assumptions.

I'm not saying you're wrong about the exchange rate of bitcoin dropping. But your arguments are flawed.

I do wonder what your motivation is for these posts. Why come to a Bitcoin forum and try to spread a message that we're all doomed? Unless you're just trying to stir up an argument. At that, my friend, is the definition of a troll.

samsam

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: Kaiji on December 21, 2013, 11:51:27 AM

Too many people with fiat waiting to scoop up cheap coins. Only way it will reach single digits is if there is a serious crackdown on btc. If it reaches single digits there is a good reason for it and it is unlikely to rise up again.

People are playing the holding game now; though after the China got out of the game I have a hard time seeing how the price can go back to $1000.

Anyone claiming bitcoin will reach $10 again is trolling.

However, pretending that bitcoins won't get cheaper in the coming days is also tolling. The Chinese haven't finished dumping their coins. BTC could easily get into the $300-$400 range for a while if the Chinese completely liquidate their BTC holdings.

Kaiji

full member

Activity: 140

Merit: 100

Hoist the Colours

Too many people with fiat waiting to scoop up cheap coins. Only way it will reach single digits is if there is a serious crackdown on btc. If it reaches single digits there is a good reason for it and it is unlikely to rise up again.

People are playing the holding game now; though after the China got out of the game I have a hard time seeing how the price can go back to $1000.

piramida

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1010

Borsche

Quote from: porc on December 18, 2013, 07:12:41 PM

Bitcoin below 10 dollars in 2014.

Oh prophet, here is your path to great riches then: http://bitbet.us/bet/672/btc-will-hit-1000-without-dropping-to-100/

Yeah, I know it is unfair if you don't believe in the BTC future. Here's a fairer deal - pick a trusted community member, escrow him any amount of BTC you want, and I will send him the same amount of fiat at the current rate. In case bitcoin reaches $10 in 2014, you get my fiat. I get your BTC otherwise. Deal?

Your topic would have much more weight than a fart in the water that it is now. You can show you really believe what you type here.

porc

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: windjc on December 21, 2013, 03:35:51 AM

1) Sound money is money you can buy something with. So the gains in bitcoin are not fake. They are REAL. Real wealth is being created. Even if Bitcoin went to zero, some people become much better off financially in the process. 2) You are butthurt. And you have nothing to contribute.

3) Here's an idea. If you are interested in "sound money," go make some. Troll.

1) I can buy stuff with dollars, does that make them sound money? Lets agree to disagree on the soundness of bitcoin. In my opinion the gains in bitcoin are not real because it is a pyramid. Again we will have to agree to disagree
2) I dont know why you feel the need to attack me personally instead of making a substantive argument (as I have done in numerous other threads).

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/why-bitcoin-will-collapse-in-price-361037
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3926046

Now you might not think I am correct. But that I contribute nothing while you are contributing information of great value is absurd. Get off your high horse and stop being emotional. We disagree on a investment decision.

Also you thinking America is the most powerful nation is foolish. America is going to collapse in the next decade. Again, once it happens you might think differently about my contribution. Same goes with bitcoin.

3) I dont see how you have a right to tell me what to do. Calling anybody who disagrees a troll and shaming him, has dictatorial tendencies.

windjc

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1070

Quote from: porc on December 21, 2013, 03:08:04 AM

Quote from: windjc on December 21, 2013, 02:18:41 AM

Quote from: porc on December 20, 2013, 11:57:11 PM

Quote from: T.Stuart on December 19, 2013, 08:36:05 AM

Quote from: porc on December 18, 2013, 07:33:51 PM

Hint: I predict a meltdown, you predict a boom. Why is your post full of wisdom, while I am posting trite? My scenario is that bitcoin cant work, thus goes into single digits/cents. Your scenario (boom), cant be connected to a concrete price (or its much harder).

1) Please explain your "can't work" scenario better.

2) Later you said "already had massive media coverage" but although I can't prove it, I really think that many of us here, with our noses in it every day, are under the illusion that every Tom, Dick and Harry in the world knows about Bitcoin, knows how to buy a Bitcoin, knows how a Bitcoin works, etc. I honestly believe that such a person is relatively rare on this planet at the moment.

For example, I live and work in Belgium in Europe, and I can tell you that no-one in the office here knows about Bitcoin. The one person I started talking to about it had not heard about it and looked confused. And he is on the internet every day (but browsing in French).

Although we (please excuse my talking for everybody) have Bitcoin on the brain, search for news etc, most people do not. And media coverage is fickle: it takes many repeats for it to sink in en masse.

Why "Bitcoin can't work"? Please explain more clearly.

1) Check out my post history.

2) In the US, bitcoin has been on front covers of main stream newspapers/magazines. Every tv news station has reported on it. Most precious metals investors know about it. Maybe the bubble can be reflated one more time. However I think in 2014 it will collapse.

You know, instead of coming up with weak theories about why Bitcoin can't work, if you had actually invested heavily in it when you found out about it you would be very well off now. Instead, you're just butthurt and lonely. And your contribution to this world is spending time trolling a bitcoin (which you claim is useless) forum.

LOL at you guys calling anybody who criticizes bitcoin a troll. I am interested in the topic sound money. I dont believe in bitcoin. I am not butthurt for missing out on bitcoin gains (which I believe are fake as most people will lose a lot of money and only a few will gain tremendously). I never said this forum is useless, as it is discussing important topics (state, economics, and money). You are pathetic.

We will see how successful your investment in bitcoin will be. He who laughs last laughs best. Now you call me a troll who contributes nothing to this forum (but disinformation and FUD). Lets see what happens in 2014.

Sound money is money you can buy something with. So the gains in bitcoin are not fake. They are REAL. Real wealth is being created. Even if Bitcoin went to zero, some people become much better off financially in the process. You are butthurt. And you have nothing to contribute.

Here's an idea. If you are interested in "sound money," go make some. Troll.

porc

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: windjc on December 21, 2013, 02:18:41 AM

You know, instead of coming up with weak theories about why Bitcoin can't work, if you had actually invested heavily in it when you found out about it you would be very well off now. Instead, you're just butthurt and lonely. And your contribution to this world is spending time trolling a bitcoin (which you claim is useless) forum.

Way to go. You are a real success.

LOL at you guys calling anybody who criticizes bitcoin a troll. I am interested in the topic sound money. I dont believe in bitcoin. I am not butthurt for missing out on bitcoin gains (which I believe are fake as most people will lose a lot of money and only a few will gain tremendously). I never said this forum is useless, as it is discussing important topics (state, economics, and money). You are pathetic.

We will see how successful your investment in bitcoin will be. He who laughs last laughs best. Now you call me a troll who contributes nothing to this forum (but disinformation and FUD). Lets see what happens in 2014.

Now I know why you are so hostile towards me. I called you out on your we Americans are the most powerful and greatest on earth BULLSHIT. Must be harsh, I challenge two of your delusions (bitcoin and the US):

Quote from: porc on December 21, 2013, 01:54:40 AM

Quote from: windjc on December 21, 2013, 01:49:12 AM

LOL @ China being the most powerful country in the world. The most powerful country in the world is AMERICA. Deal with it. We control the money and the military and because of that, we control the oil. Our government and regulators and innovators have given the "ok" to bitcoin.

Come to think about it, instead of meeting you, we will just wave to you above $2000 in 2014.

Lol. You are praising a falling star (crashing would be more accuarte).

The US is the biggest debtor of them all. Huge liabilities, big government mentality, anti free market philosophy is on the rise and Obama is a socialist in office. The FED is printing like there is no tomorrow. Americans consume (debt financed) but save and produce nothing.

China on the other hand is one of the largest creditors, is liberating its markets (as it has been burned by communism), and is actually moving away from the dollar (China has been propping up US consumption and living standards). Once the yuan is free floating (not pegged to the dollar) and once the dollar crashes, you will hopefully wake up! The Chinese save (one of the highest saving rates in the world) and produce!

China is the future.

Even bigger LOL at you thinking that the US government will be more friendly to bitcoin, if it feels threatened by it (dollar monopoly=power remember?).

windjc

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1070

Quote from: porc on December 20, 2013, 11:57:11 PM

Quote from: T.Stuart on December 19, 2013, 08:36:05 AM

Quote from: porc on December 18, 2013, 07:33:51 PM

Hint: I predict a meltdown, you predict a boom. Why is your post full of wisdom, while I am posting trite? My scenario is that bitcoin cant work, thus goes into single digits/cents. Your scenario (boom), cant be connected to a concrete price (or its much harder).

1) Please explain your "can't work" scenario better.

2) Later you said "already had massive media coverage" but although I can't prove it, I really think that many of us here, with our noses in it every day, are under the illusion that every Tom, Dick and Harry in the world knows about Bitcoin, knows how to buy a Bitcoin, knows how a Bitcoin works, etc. I honestly believe that such a person is relatively rare on this planet at the moment.

For example, I live and work in Belgium in Europe, and I can tell you that no-one in the office here knows about Bitcoin. The one person I started talking to about it had not heard about it and looked confused. And he is on the internet every day (but browsing in French).

Although we (please excuse my talking for everybody) have Bitcoin on the brain, search for news etc, most people do not. And media coverage is fickle: it takes many repeats for it to sink in en masse.

Why "Bitcoin can't work"? Please explain more clearly.

1) Check out my post history.

2) In the US, bitcoin has been on front covers of main stream newspapers/magazines. Every tv news station has reported on it. Most precious metals investors know about it. Maybe the bubble can be reflated one more time. However I think in 2014 it will collapse.

You know, instead of coming up with weak theories about why Bitcoin can't work, if you had actually invested heavily in it when you found out about it you would be very well off now. Instead, you're just butthurt and lonely. And your contribution to this world is spending time trolling a bitcoin (which you claim is useless) forum.

Way to go. You are a real success.

porc

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: T.Stuart on December 19, 2013, 08:36:05 AM

Quote from: porc on December 18, 2013, 07:33:51 PM

Hint: I predict a meltdown, you predict a boom. Why is your post full of wisdom, while I am posting trite? My scenario is that bitcoin cant work, thus goes into single digits/cents. Your scenario (boom), cant be connected to a concrete price (or its much harder).

1) Please explain your "can't work" scenario better.

2) Later you said "already had massive media coverage" but although I can't prove it, I really think that many of us here, with our noses in it every day, are under the illusion that every Tom, Dick and Harry in the world knows about Bitcoin, knows how to buy a Bitcoin, knows how a Bitcoin works, etc. I honestly believe that such a person is relatively rare on this planet at the moment.

For example, I live and work in Belgium in Europe, and I can tell you that no-one in the office here knows about Bitcoin. The one person I started talking to about it had not heard about it and looked confused. And he is on the internet every day (but browsing in French).

Although we (please excuse my talking for everybody) have Bitcoin on the brain, search for news etc, most people do not. And media coverage is fickle: it takes many repeats for it to sink in en masse.

Why "Bitcoin can't work"? Please explain more clearly.

1) Check out my post history.

2) In the US, bitcoin has been on front covers of main stream newspapers/magazines. Every tv news station has reported on it. Most precious metals investors know about it. Maybe the bubble can be reflated one more time. However I think in 2014 it will collapse.

Xer0

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 1000

°^°

greed is the path to fear.
fear it the path to panic.
panic is the path to dark single digit times

?

rampantparanoia

sr. member

Activity: 516

Merit: 283

hey guy

double digits is coming

for mBTC

superduh

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

right. as if your train of thought hasn't repeatedly been used at every single price point on the way up?

uhoh

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Circle gets the Square

Quote from: humanitee on December 18, 2013, 08:47:06 PM

Like the OP, I too enjoy PCP!

Shadow people got the weakest hands.

massimies

newbie

Activity: 57

Merit: 0

Even if op's "vision" would come true I'd be still HODLING.

ironstove

member

Activity: 111

Merit: 10

Possibilities are limitless

Bitcoin won't fail, and it won't hit single digits... Doubt double is even possible. There is way too much support and adoption for the technology already and it's only scaling higher. Keep dreaming about your cheap coins which will never come.

I'm calling this bottom @ high to mid 300s. If it strikes that price within the next 2-3 weeks, that's the hot time to buy. Anything lower than 300 is just too much of a steal. I think that 420 might be the ATL that we see, which means most everyone missed their buying opportunity. I am still holding fiat as I am going to take the risk of finding a better opportunity elsewhere.

In other news:

T.Stuart

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 500

One Token to Move Anything Anywhere

Quote from: porc on December 18, 2013, 07:33:51 PM

Hint: I predict a meltdown, you predict a boom. Why is your post full of wisdom, while I am posting trite? My scenario is that bitcoin cant work, thus goes into single digits/cents. Your scenario (boom), cant be connected to a concrete price (or its much harder).

Please explain your "can't work" scenario better.

Later you said "already had massive media coverage" but although I can't prove it, I really think that many of us here, with our noses in it every day, are under the illusion that every Tom, Dick and Harry in the world knows about Bitcoin, knows how to buy a Bitcoin, knows how a Bitcoin works, etc. I honestly believe that such a person is relatively rare on this planet at the moment.

For example, I live and work in Belgium in Europe, and I can tell you that no-one in the office here knows about Bitcoin. The one person I started talking to about it had not heard about it and looked confused. And he is on the internet every day (but browsing in French).

Although we (please excuse my talking for everybody) have Bitcoin on the brain, search for news etc, most people do not. And media coverage is fickle: it takes many repeats for it to sink in en masse.

Why "Bitcoin can't work"? Please explain more clearly.

alexeft

legendary

Activity: 854

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Xer0 on December 18, 2013, 08:46:45 PM

Quote from: porc on December 18, 2013, 07:12:41 PM

Lots of people have been burnt buying at 1200

they only got burnt because they SODL'd and did not HODL

Yep, so, HODL!!!! Cheesy

Topic: Fear will replace greed (Single digit Bitcoins in 2014). - page 2. (Read 6083 times)