Feeling comfortable with the word "anarchist". - page 2.

Kiki112

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Quote from: Hawker on November 25, 2013, 05:54:55 AM

[...snip...
I don't accept that we must be violent just because we have been throughout history. Violence, as everything, is a choice. Once we grow up and see that we are all a family, and remove the factor of greed from the equation by giving up money, we really have nothing to gain by acting hatefully towards other humans.
...snip...

people don't hate for nothing,
there is always a reason why someone is being hateful, hate doesn't just come from nothing
and hate is something that humans use to punish someone for his bad behaviour, for behaviour that did bad thing to another human being
when you can't take revenge and can't find an another way to punish someone for something that harmed you or your loved ones the only thing left is hate..
even if you get away with something hate makes you remember that there are consequences for shit you've done.

Hawker

legendary

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Quote from: dank on November 25, 2013, 01:53:24 AM

[...snip...
I don't accept that we must be violent just because we have been throughout history. Violence, as everything, is a choice. Once we grow up and see that we are all a family, and remove the factor of greed from the equation by giving up money, we really have nothing to gain by acting hatefully towards other humans.
...snip...

I think you are a good person and see the good in other people. While I admire that, we won't agree that its a basis for a society so I will bow out.

/peace

We_love_Bitcoin

newbie

Activity: 7

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Well, I don't exactly call myself an Anarchist, although anarchist life is certainly the kind of life I wand for me and my community.
For the rest, I really don't mind. I even think most of the people had better be governed as most of them use power and freedom for corruptive, selfish goals.
Of course, no one can guarantee that mine are better, not even me, who knows if I was right. But I know what the alternatives are, and that the current situation is not good.
So for the reord - I do believe that my trusted friends whom I learned that are reliable, are better than the government. For the rest, for whom I don't know, I can't tell.

dank

legendary

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You cannot kill love

Quote from: Hawker on November 24, 2013, 05:43:06 PM

Quote from: dank on November 24, 2013, 03:55:08 PM

So you propose we continue killing each other, because that's what monkeys do?

...snip...

I propose that we accept reality. Humans are intrinsicly violent and every human society creates structures to control the violence that is inherent in our natures. The modern state, with its separation of powers, is the most effective way of controlling violence so far.

If you want to replace it, you have to offer something better. So far, no anarchist has offered a way to prevent things like domestic violence or female genital mutilation in communities that contract their "protection" to companies that turn a blind eye to such cultural practices. That says to me that anarchy would be worse.

I don't accept that we must be violent just because we have been throughout history. Violence, as everything, is a choice. Once we grow up and see that we are all a family, and remove the factor of greed from the equation by giving up money, we really have nothing to gain by acting hatefully towards other humans.

Anarchy is the solution all in itself. Those that want to kill others because they think there will be no repercussions, well, they have another thing coming. At the anarchist level, natural selection takes role very quickly, there's no reason to expect anymore violence than there is today for more than a few days, if at all. It's important we understand and practice forgiveness to those around us and to ourselves.

To be free of our scheduled lives will truly promote the conscious expansion by focusing on the present moment. People will evolve as they learn to do things for themselves.

Hawker

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Quote from: dank on November 24, 2013, 03:55:08 PM

So you propose we continue killing each other, because that's what monkeys do?

...snip...

I propose that we accept reality. Humans are intrinsicly violent and every human society creates structures to control the violence that is inherent in our natures. The modern state, with its separation of powers, is the most effective way of controlling violence so far.

If you want to replace it, you have to offer something better. So far, no anarchist has offered a way to prevent things like domestic violence or female genital mutilation in communities that contract their "protection" to companies that turn a blind eye to such cultural practices. That says to me that anarchy would be worse.

dank

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You cannot kill love

It can also be loving and peaceful, there is no need for fear. An anarchist society would show us this.

deisik

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Quote from: dank on November 24, 2013, 03:55:08 PM

Quote from: deisik on November 24, 2013, 03:15:29 PM

By the way, this is not a pro-anarchy site, so I guess you're taking it too far to tell anyone here (even me) what they should do, right? Cool

You and your noob friends are pushing awfully hard.

If you read my posts closely here (or elsewhere for this matter) you will see that I refrain as much as I can from value judgments about anyone. I'm always doing my best to provide hard facts and give cogent reasons for anything I say or state... Cool

deisik

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Quote from: dank on November 24, 2013, 03:55:08 PM

So you propose we continue killing each other, because that's what monkeys do?

Me?! God forbid!!! Shocked

I just wanted to show you that nature is not just "packs of squirrels", that it can be brute, ruthless and lethal (and in fact is just such), that there is nothing specifically "human" in all this... Grin

dank

legendary

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You cannot kill love

So you propose we continue killing each other, because that's what monkeys do?

Quote from: deisik on November 24, 2013, 03:15:29 PM

By the way, this is not a pro-anarchy site, so I guess you're taking it too far to tell anyone here (even me) what they should do, right? Cool

You and your noob friends are pushing awfully hard.

deisik

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Quote from: dank on November 24, 2013, 03:00:31 PM

Do you see packs of squirrels killing each other for acorns? No, this is nature, where EARTH's resources are shared and rightfully owned by no person, but earth.

Nature is the perfect balancing force of the universe. If someone wants to try and gain power over people, let nature take them out.

Take your antifreedom agenda elsewhere.

Never saw feral dogs fighting to death with each other for a bitch or food? Never heard of ant armies waging wars between themselves or chimps killing their own posterity? Maybe, it's some other nature, not from this planet? Grin

By the way, this is not a pro-anarchy site, so I guess you're taking it too far to tell anyone here (even me) what they should do, right? Cool

Hawker

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Quote from: dank on November 24, 2013, 03:00:31 PM

Do you see packs of squirrels killing each other for acorns? No, this is nature, where EARTH's resources are shared and rightfully owned by no person, but earth.

Nature is the perfect balancing force of the universe. If someone wants to try and gain power over people, let nature take them out.

Take your antifreedom agenda elsewhere.

You do see packs of Chimpanzees killing and eating one another. That also is nature. We humans are a lot more like the chimps than squirrels.

dank

legendary

Activity: 1134

Merit: 1002

You cannot kill love

Do you see packs of squirrels killing each other for acorns? No, this is nature, where EARTH's resources are shared and rightfully owned by no person, but earth.

Nature is the perfect balancing force of the universe. If someone wants to try and gain power over people, let nature take them out.

Take your antifreedom agenda elsewhere.

deisik

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Quote from: dank on November 24, 2013, 01:43:49 PM

Quote from: deisik on November 21, 2013, 02:59:58 AM

Why did you write this? Did you write these lines for yourself? Cheesy

You appear to have not read closely what I'd written. This scenario is not within anarchism, it just proves why true anarchism is impossible in reality Lips sealed

It seems that you don't understand how human nature actually works. To keep true anarchy going for any significant amount of time you would need an exterior force that would constrain the manifestations of this nature (selfishness, ego-centrism, greed, etc). There's no such force save for the state (which itself is a converted form of the lust for power, another trait of human nature), which excludes anarchism by definition. I wrote about this previously and this is crucial for why true anarchy (universal equality between people) is impossible in principle unless we have aliens ruling among us... Cool

The exterior force exists, it's called nature, karma, god, love, truth, whatever you'd like to call it.

Anyways, there are aliens among us, so it's all good.

My pick would be nature. Sorry, but the nature lurking deep down inside a human being works against anarchy. So you have to choose some other exterior force which would override nature... Cool

I'm not that sure about aliens out there (or here), but do you actually mean they are all inveterate anarchists? Grin

dank

legendary

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You cannot kill love

Quote from: deisik on November 21, 2013, 02:59:58 AM

Quote from: Mike Christ on November 20, 2013, 06:49:18 PM

At any point in time that you present a scenario within anarchism that requires a ruling class and a ruled class, follow these steps:

1. Stop
2. Take a breath
3. Discard the idea

It will save you and I a lot of time.

Why did you write this? Did you write these lines for yourself? Cheesy

You appear to have not read closely what I'd written. This scenario is not within anarchism, it just proves why true anarchism is impossible in reality Lips sealed

It seems that you don't understand how human nature actually works. To keep true anarchy going for any significant amount of time you would need an exterior force that would constrain the manifestations of this nature (selfishness, ego-centrism, greed, etc). There's no such force save for the state (which itself is a converted form of the lust for power, another trait of human nature), which excludes anarchism by definition. I wrote about this previously and this is crucial for why true anarchy (universal equality between people) is impossible in principle unless we have aliens ruling among us... Cool

The exterior force exists, it's called nature, karma, god, love, truth, whatever you'd like to call it.

Anyways, there are aliens among us, so it's all good.

Dreamweaver

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Trying to find my way.

Quote from: beetcoin on November 21, 2013, 04:19:40 AM

i too am against anarchy. when there's a power vaccum, where is a power struggle. it's just human nature. to think otherwise would be naive and wishful. if you mean by anarchist to mean an egalitarian/idealistic society, which is what i think some of the anarchy supporters here mean.

i don't really see it being much different from darwinism in the animal kingdom. some groups will be more hungry to dominate others.

That argument does make sense and I always saw that as a reason to not even consider anarchy of any form. Tho I'd propose that there be a new power structure that relies of voluntary interaction rather than one monopoly over force and so on. Those who align with anarcho-capitalism may argue that multiple competing entities that provide law and justice could be a viable option. I'll admit that businesses may WANT to exploit workers and customers, and they may try, but amidst healthy competition people could always leave said company for another, or even begin their own.

deisik

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Quote from: hawkeye on November 21, 2013, 06:54:11 AM

Anyone interested in government systems can read up on Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc,etc...

Funny how your guy doesn't seem to have the infamy of these other guys...

I don't quite understand where you're going... Huh

If you want to say that Hitler et al are inveterate villains all over and Makhno is not their match then that was not really my point Cool

In fact, he was just a local guerrilla leader who didn't succeed much (unlike those other guys), anarchy aside... Grin

hawkeye

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Quote from: deisik on November 21, 2013, 04:38:48 AM

Quote from: hawkeye on November 21, 2013, 04:16:51 AM

Well, if it's in a movie it must be true.

Anyone interested in the actual efforts of establishing a stateless anarchist society could read about Nestor Makhno who unleashed plunder and outrage in his "Free Territory"... Grin

Anyone interested in government systems can read up on Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc,etc...

Funny how your guy doesn't seem to have the infamy of these other guys...

deisik

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Quote from: hawkeye on November 21, 2013, 04:16:51 AM

Well, if it's in a movie it must be true.

Anyone interested in the actual efforts of establishing a stateless anarchist society could read about Nestor Makhno who unleashed plunder and outrage in his "Free Territory"... Grin

beetcoin

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i too am against anarchy. when there's a power vaccum, where is a power struggle. it's just human nature. to think otherwise would be naive and wishful. if you mean by anarchist to mean an egalitarian/idealistic society, which is what i think some of the anarchy supporters here mean.

i don't really see it being much different from darwinism in the animal kingdom. some groups will be more hungry to dominate others.

hawkeye

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Quote from: deisik on November 21, 2013, 03:55:04 AM

Quote from: Akka on November 20, 2013, 07:12:11 PM

Let's go with an extreme example. Say upon tomorrow the state would cancel all laws on murder and from there on killing someone would go completely unpunished. Would we have chaos and random slaughter on the streets?

Come watch The Purge movie Grin

Actually, criminal gangs and other organised groups with strong hierachy within them will instantly grab the power and soon begin fighting with each other, the winner forming a quasi-state with its laws, law enforcing bodies, penalty and tax systems... Cool

Still no trace of anarchy Grin

Well, if it's in a movie it must be true.

Topic: Feeling comfortable with the word "anarchist". - page 2. (Read 2772 times)