Fees!!! - page 3. | Bitcointalksearch.org

freedomno1

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Quote from: Lucky7btc on May 26, 2017, 11:00:06 AM

If you cash out by bitcoins at a casino and the casino doesn't add enough fees for fast confirmation. If the price of bitcoin drops a lot. Should the casino be held responsible for the price differences in which you cashed out at and the current loss in btc prices?

This is a surprisingly interesting question for gambling my opinion is YES if they do not provide an option for you to top up the fee that is sent to a wallet, if you can toggle between certain fee prices and decide to pay a low one and get burned that's on you, if you pay extra for speed and agree to that cost then that should be allowed.

channingwilmer

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Well, I do want someone to take the responsibility for that slow confirmed transaction. Anyhow, it is a problem which everyone is facing everyday

virasog

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Quote from: piloder on May 30, 2017, 10:24:50 AM

Quote from: Lucky7btc on May 26, 2017, 11:00:06 AM

If you cash out by bitcoins at a casino and the casino doesn't add enough fees for fast confirmation. If the price of bitcoin drops a lot. Should the casino be held responsible for the price differences in which you cashed out at and the current loss in btc prices?

I think yes but no any casino will be willing to take this responsibility. They only update their system when someone report this issue to them and what best users can do is to either wait for confirmation or use tx accelerator services like viabtc tx accelerator to get faster confirmation.

I think the tx fee are very minimal as compare to the earning of the casino. So no casino will put a less tx fee, just to delay the transcation and ruin their reputation. If a casino does this, no one will come back again to the casino to play, so it will be a blunder for a casino to put low tx fee. A good casino should put a high tx fee and no deduction of fee to give their customer a better playing experience and therefore a boost in their own business.

Rockie1234

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Quote from: Xavofat on May 30, 2017, 01:07:43 PM

Fees are still not significant, really.

For most people who gamble significant amounts, especially those who use sports related sites or do arbitrage betting, it really doesn't matter that they pay a couple of dollars to get confirmations, because Bitcoin is still more convenient than fiat for online gambling.

You could always use an altcoin as well.

Personally, 300k per kB of transaction seems to do the trick. The situation is becoming very ridiculous now, I do not want to spend several dollars in transaction fees just to send some small amount of Bitcoin to someone.
I feel like charging more than widely used services such as bank transfer or Paypal is not going to help Bitcoin. They need to sort their stuff out.

Betwrong

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Quote from: Xavofat on May 30, 2017, 01:07:43 PM

Fees are still not significant, really.

For most people who gamble significant amounts, especially those who use sports related sites or do arbitrage betting, it really doesn't matter that they pay a couple of dollars to get confirmations, because Bitcoin is still more convenient than fiat for online gambling.

You could always use an altcoin as well.

Then maybe it's time to think on implementing an option for gamblers to choose fees they like, starting from the minimal fee which is taken by a casino by default. Also I think it would be helpful to show the link to this site: https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ because not all gamblers are aware of its existence, and, at least from my experience, there are pretty accurate estimations there.

bluefirecorp

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Quote from: beerlover on May 30, 2017, 07:49:19 AM

Quote from: Lucky7btc on May 26, 2017, 11:00:06 AM

If you cash out by bitcoins at a casino and the casino doesn't add enough fees for fast confirmation. If the price of bitcoin drops a lot. Should the casino be held responsible for the price differences in which you cashed out at and the current loss in btc prices?

Will you be ready to return some portion of your withdrawal amount in the case of prices increasing between your withdrawal time and confirmation time ?
We are in agreement with every gambling houses to deal in BTC value regardless of where the prices of bitcoin is fluctuating.

Probably in future we may get gambling sites which will be dealing in USD value still they will make us responsible for setting our tx fees and only at the time of withdrawal they bother about USD value definitely not with confirmation time. I don't think it is right to ask for compensation for the losses incurred due to fluctuations of bitcoin prices as we are all well aware of how drastic bitcoin volatility is doing all the times.

A sender of bitcoin cannot be responsible for confirmation time except setting up enough fees for transactions.

Xavofat

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Fees are still not significant, really.

For most people who gamble significant amounts, especially those who use sports related sites or do arbitrage betting, it really doesn't matter that they pay a couple of dollars to get confirmations, because Bitcoin is still more convenient than fiat for online gambling.

You could always use an altcoin as well.

ABCbits

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Quote from: lionheart78 on May 30, 2017, 12:22:04 PM

Quote from: dunfida on May 30, 2017, 12:08:32 PM

Quote from: piloder on May 30, 2017, 10:24:50 AM

Quote from: Lucky7btc on May 26, 2017, 11:00:06 AM

If you cash out by bitcoins at a casino and the casino doesn't add enough fees for fast confirmation. If the price of bitcoin drops a lot. Should the casino be held responsible for the price differences in which you cashed out at and the current loss in btc prices?

I think yes but no any casino will be willing to take this responsibility. They only update their system when someone report this issue to them and what best users can do is to either wait for confirmation or use tx accelerator services like viabtc tx accelerator to get faster confirmation.

I think theres no connection of an accelerator regarding on the thing that OP mention. It may push the transaction but on owners/players own expense which definitely means that casinos wont really bother at all on refunding you on what you have spent. If the price goes up then they wont claim on the excess bitcoin you do have since they do always base on bitcoins rate no matter how volatile is the price is.

It is true. If we want to accelerate the confirmation of our transaction then it is to our expense. The only responsibility of casino with our transfer is releasing the fund. The delay of the confirmation is not covered of their responsibility since the fund is out of their hands and have been transfered to their client.

The casino should take small amount of bitcoin when user withdraw to ensure fast confirmation or let user set the transaction fees than process several withdraw request in a transaction with low fees.

lionheart78

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Quote from: dunfida on May 30, 2017, 12:08:32 PM

Quote from: piloder on May 30, 2017, 10:24:50 AM

Quote from: Lucky7btc on May 26, 2017, 11:00:06 AM

If you cash out by bitcoins at a casino and the casino doesn't add enough fees for fast confirmation. If the price of bitcoin drops a lot. Should the casino be held responsible for the price differences in which you cashed out at and the current loss in btc prices?

I think yes but no any casino will be willing to take this responsibility. They only update their system when someone report this issue to them and what best users can do is to either wait for confirmation or use tx accelerator services like viabtc tx accelerator to get faster confirmation.

I think theres no connection of an accelerator regarding on the thing that OP mention. It may push the transaction but on owners/players own expense which definitely means that casinos wont really bother at all on refunding you on what you have spent. If the price goes up then they wont claim on the excess bitcoin you do have since they do always base on bitcoins rate no matter how volatile is the price is.

It is true. If we want to accelerate the confirmation of our transaction then it is to our expense. The only responsibility of casino with our transfer is releasing the fund. The delay of the confirmation is not covered of their responsibility since the fund is out of their hands and have been transfered to their client.

dunfida

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Quote from: piloder on May 30, 2017, 10:24:50 AM

Quote from: Lucky7btc on May 26, 2017, 11:00:06 AM

If you cash out by bitcoins at a casino and the casino doesn't add enough fees for fast confirmation. If the price of bitcoin drops a lot. Should the casino be held responsible for the price differences in which you cashed out at and the current loss in btc prices?

I think yes but no any casino will be willing to take this responsibility. They only update their system when someone report this issue to them and what best users can do is to either wait for confirmation or use tx accelerator services like viabtc tx accelerator to get faster confirmation.

I think theres no connection of an accelerator regarding on the thing that OP mention. It may push the transaction but on owners/players own expense which definitely means that casinos wont really bother at all on refunding you on what you have spent. If the price goes up then they wont claim on the excess bitcoin you do have since they do always base on bitcoins rate no matter how volatile is the price is.

olubams

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Quote from: Lucky7btc on May 26, 2017, 11:00:06 AM

If you cash out by bitcoins at a casino and the casino doesn't add enough fees for fast confirmation. If the price of bitcoin drops a lot. Should the casino be held responsible for the price differences in which you cashed out at and the current loss in btc prices?

What casino does and what they are really interested about is the unit value of bitcoin so it does not matter whether thebprixe increases of reduces. If I am due for 0.04btc I guess that's exactly what I should be sent and if the value should drop they won't be held responsible after all I am not going to pay them or say they should reduce the 0.04btc should in case the price of bitcoin increases its part of the risk we are to take as holders of the coin.

piloder

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Quote from: Lucky7btc on May 26, 2017, 11:00:06 AM

If you cash out by bitcoins at a casino and the casino doesn't add enough fees for fast confirmation. If the price of bitcoin drops a lot. Should the casino be held responsible for the price differences in which you cashed out at and the current loss in btc prices?

I think yes but no any casino will be willing to take this responsibility. They only update their system when someone report this issue to them and what best users can do is to either wait for confirmation or use tx accelerator services like viabtc tx accelerator to get faster confirmation.

shintosai

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Quote from: beerlover on May 30, 2017, 07:49:19 AM

Quote from: Lucky7btc on May 26, 2017, 11:00:06 AM

If you cash out by bitcoins at a casino and the casino doesn't add enough fees for fast confirmation. If the price of bitcoin drops a lot. Should the casino be held responsible for the price differences in which you cashed out at and the current loss in btc prices?

Will you be ready to return some portion of your withdrawal amount in the case of prices increasing between your withdrawal time and confirmation time ?
We are in agreement with every gambling houses to deal in BTC value regardless of where the prices of bitcoin is fluctuating.

that's the logic there mate, what if when you received your withdraw bitcoin the price went to much huge amount are you willing to send it back? the only thing here is if we withdraw and the timing is bitcoin fell down better to hold and wait for the price to fluctuate before exchange it into fiat.

beerlover

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Quote from: Lucky7btc on May 26, 2017, 11:00:06 AM

If you cash out by bitcoins at a casino and the casino doesn't add enough fees for fast confirmation. If the price of bitcoin drops a lot. Should the casino be held responsible for the price differences in which you cashed out at and the current loss in btc prices?

Will you be ready to return some portion of your withdrawal amount in the case of prices increasing between your withdrawal time and confirmation time ?
We are in agreement with every gambling houses to deal in BTC value regardless of where the prices of bitcoin is fluctuating.

ralle14

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Quote from: h3nchm19 on May 29, 2017, 11:06:45 AM

That would be excessive IMO, Although a casino should send using decent fees demanding remuneration is almost impossible to achieve, also calculating it would be another issue.. Technically the withdrawal is in the blockchain so their job is done.
A good solution however is to let the player set the fees himself "with a minimum of 0.0001", This way, the player can't complaint sine he/she is the one who decided the fees.

Imo that's not a good solution the minimum should be more than 0.0003 to 0.0005 at the very least because if gamblers start using fees as low as 0.0001 their transaction could be rejected and this could cause more problems to the casino.

Quote from: BTCevo on May 29, 2017, 07:16:35 PM

Yes that is true, but some sites tell us to pay like 100k sat but in the end they just use like half of it to sent or even lower than that to take some profit from our transaction fee too. So it feels like they take 2 things from us, either win or lose we need to lose and to pay

I only experienced this when I made withdrawal request from moneypot they charged me with 500 bits and used less than what I gave them.

gentlem3n

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I too would be angry if I had to wait for even hours for the TX, casino's should either allot us to select our fees and then it would be our issue, but they are the ones sending, should at least use the current network minimum fees to pass unhendred in a block or two (350s/b now or so).

arbitrage

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Bitcoin and fee problem does not need to be their concern, but it's not fair it is up to you will you use their services again or not, will you reward them for their work or you will try to find another one? Eventually they will realize over time that this is bad for business, and will take care about this..

Quote from: STT on May 29, 2017, 08:07:18 PM

If it takes more then a day to withdraw thats a problem, quicker then that is a convenience and gives preference for that casino. Its in their own interests to make use convenient for their customers. I think a good casino will allow a few types of crypto to be withdrawn so you arent tied to just one standard that may or may not be log jammed when you need the cash.

This is what i want to say pick a good casino, then enjoy playing. This will spare you from unnecessary problems..

STT

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If it takes more then a day to withdraw thats a problem, quicker then that is a convenience and gives preference for that casino. Its in their own interests to make use convenient for their customers. I think a good casino will allow a few types of crypto to be withdrawn so you arent tied to just one standard that may or may not be log jammed when you need the cash.

BTCevo

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Quote from: Text on May 29, 2017, 06:38:29 AM

Casino doesn't have the responsibility to be blamed off because in the first place like what has been said here, you agreed on their terms and conditions upon joining the site. And it so normal to bitcoin that it fluctuates in no time, there are times that you will really encounter such scenarios, you know what to do.

Yes that is true, but some sites tell us to pay like 100k sat but in the end they just use like half of it to sent or even lower than that to take some profit from our transaction fee too. So it feels like they take 2 things from us, either win or lose we need to lose and to pay

serjent05

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Quote from: Ayers on May 29, 2017, 12:18:17 PM

Quote from: ralle14 on May 28, 2017, 06:19:49 AM

Quote from: Ayers on May 28, 2017, 04:40:48 AM

then how you explain that bittrex have 20k satoshi fee all the times, when i withdrawal my coins from them? 20k satoshi is way below the average and shoudl remain stuck forever instead i always get my coins very fast from them, the only explanation is that they are miners themselves, or they do the same thign as viabitcoin the accelerator

Maybe you're just lucky with the confirmations or during that time the network isn't busy as usual.

not at all, i'm always getting 20k satoshi fee for withdrawal, no matter was, and i'm not trading on bittrex from two days ago i'm doing it from many years, and was always 20k satoshi, just look yourself, try to do a withdrawals form bittrex, and you see, they have special deals with miners, trust me

I think bittrex had increase their fee to 0.001 BTC per withdrawal transaction. I just did a couple of withdrawal and they charged me 0.001 BTC for transaction.

Quote from: megynacuna on May 29, 2017, 03:10:30 PM

I don't think you have to blame the casino, what if the casino delays and the Bitcoin prices shoot up by 4 times which you would have cashed out if you received it earlier from them. So it's just fair to let go and accept that Bitcoin is volatile and anything can happen anytime.

The fact that we agree to the Casino ToS, we cannot blame casino in the delay of our fund withdrawal even if it means losing funds since they do not have control on the confirmation time of the transaction.

Topic: Fees!!! - page 3. (Read 2877 times)