Fiat Money is a Bubble - page 10. | Bitcointalksearch.org

ValoremFoundation

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Quote from: _Dawid_ on October 23, 2017, 06:17:30 PM

Fiat money is a bubble? Why?!
In my opinion FIAT moeny can't be a bubble, because everyone use FIAT currency. We can actually buy a lot of things, and use that money in many good ways. If anything i would say that bitcoin may be a bubble, because we dont have a lot of opportunities to buy something for btc and even if we finally have such a chance we just dont want to spend our BTCs, co the price increase again. So that type of money (bitcoin) maybe is a bubble, and fiat for sure is not a bubble.

Fiat is not a bubble. It's just devalued.

Cherylstar86

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Quote from: amaral1977 on October 23, 2017, 04:45:25 PM

Quote from: JunoCoin on October 23, 2017, 12:37:09 PM

Since many people try to convince us that Bitcoin is a bubble and how we will lose our money eventually, I wonder if money is not a bubble actually. There exist economies in which money has a positive value in spite its market fundamental is zero. That means fiat money has zero value. Fiat money is a social contrivance. We take money from other people because we know other people will take it from us. In theory and practice the fiat money is a bubble.

Everything is a bubble or a ponzi scheme if we want to take it literally. Consider the banking system. it´s a gigantic world wide ponzi where the growing economies borrow and pay interest to te better established economies. And it relies on contiuous growth. When growth is alted there is a major retraction, banks bankrupting and governments printing adicional money to sustain it. The question is...How long can it endure? indefinitelly or will it burst exposing the bubble?

I'm kinda curious now with the banks to be involved with bitcoin. So you mean that's a real role of banking system? The way you save your money through banks and it is a kind of borrowing? I'm not really into banking but that's really not clear to me. Actually,I tried saving to a bank for a month but I didn't borrow because obviously it was my savings. With regards to fiat money as a bubble,yes it is bit mind you eventhough it is a bubble but it gives us profit and that's worth it.

_Dawid_

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Fiat money is a bubble? Why?!
In my opinion FIAT moeny can't be a bubble, because everyone use FIAT currency. We can actually buy a lot of things, and use that money in many good ways. If anything i would say that bitcoin may be a bubble, because we dont have a lot of opportunities to buy something for btc and even if we finally have such a chance we just dont want to spend our BTCs, co the price increase again. So that type of money (bitcoin) maybe is a bubble, and fiat for sure is not a bubble.

Theb

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Its fundamentals does not have a value of zero, the value of Fiat currency is in direct reflection of a country's economy as well as the supply and demand of the fiat currency. How can something be a bubble if the world markets are the one who are giving them a fair market value? It is hard for a country to make their fiat currency appreciate in value without making their country grow. Also being a medium of exchange for a country makes it really hard to give it an overvalued state.

ValoremFoundation

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Quote from: aardvark15 on October 23, 2017, 05:55:58 PM

Quote from: JunoCoin on October 23, 2017, 12:37:09 PM

Since many people try to convince us that Bitcoin is a bubble and how we will lose our money eventually, I wonder if money is not a bubble actually. There exist economies in which money has a positive value in spite its market fundamental is zero. That means fiat money has zero value. Fiat money is a social contrivance. We take money from other people because we know other people will take it from us. In theory and practice the fiat money is a bubble.

Bitcoin value is based on the large amount of whales that hold their coins and influence their price with it. The value grows, yes, but not entirely honestly.

I don’t know if the term bubble is the best to describe fiat, but I definitely agree that most fiat money has artificial value. US money for example is not backed by gold any more so the value is artificially set by the government. And they can just print as much as they want to. If the economy went into a depression, the fiat currency would be worth very little. At least Bitcoin has value based on a true free market.

aardvark15

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Quote from: JunoCoin on October 23, 2017, 12:37:09 PM

Since many people try to convince us that Bitcoin is a bubble and how we will lose our money eventually, I wonder if money is not a bubble actually. There exist economies in which money has a positive value in spite its market fundamental is zero. That means fiat money has zero value. Fiat money is a social contrivance. We take money from other people because we know other people will take it from us. In theory and practice the fiat money is a bubble.

I don’t know if the term bubble is the best to describe fiat, but I definitely agree that most fiat money has artificial value. US money for example is not backed by gold any more so the value is artificially set by the government. And they can just print as much as they want to. If the economy went into a depression, the fiat currency would be worth very little. At least Bitcoin has value based on a true free market.

batang_bitcoin

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Quote from: Wong Gendheng on October 23, 2017, 05:39:56 PM

I do not think fiat money is legal money that is fully controlled by the central bank and government, of course the government has special consideration to increase or decrease fiat money value.

It's a legal money because there is a government that supports it. How come if a fiat money that was produced by a stranger will become a legal money for the whole country? And the value is also depending to it's economy, how it's market is making, depending on gross domestic product per capita. The value doesn't portrays a special consideration but it's an indicator on how strong the economy of the country is.

ValoremFoundation

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Quote from: Wong Gendheng on October 23, 2017, 05:39:56 PM

I do not think fiat money is legal money that is fully controlled by the central bank and government, of course the government has special consideration to increase or decrease fiat money value.

It's only legal because they say it is. That's not the way it should be. We are way past that and we dont need to be told what is money. Each of us knows this.

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I do not think fiat money is legal money that is fully controlled by the central bank and government, of course the government has special consideration to increase or decrease fiat money value.

ValoremFoundation

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Quote from: Hydrogen on October 23, 2017, 05:15:11 PM

Economic and financial policy in this era is puzzling.

Apple is sitting on $256.8 billion usd:

Quote

Apple's cash hoard swells to record $256.8 billion

Apple's enormous cash pile swelled to $256.8 billion in the fiscal second quarter, up more than $10 billion from the previous quarter.

That figure means Apple's war chest is now larger than the market value of General Electric, but smaller than that of Wells Fargo.

https://www.c[Suspicious link removed]m/2017/05/02/apples-cash-hoard-swells-to-record-256-8-billion.html

What happens to apple's $256 billion if the federal government defaults on its $20 trillion dollar deficit and the value of the dollar plummets?

Bitcoin/crypto could well be a safer investment than either the dollar or the euro at this point.

It is possible that as deficit and default fears grow big corporations like google, apple, microsoft and others will seek to transfer their holdings to denominations of crypto as it may be more reliable than fiat like the dollar or euro.

They should create an edible Iphone in the next version so they don't starve. j/k Apple will be fine. They can use all those apple stores as dispensary locations.

Hydrogen

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Economic and financial policy in this era is puzzling.

Apple is sitting on $256.8 billion usd:

Quote

Apple's cash hoard swells to record $256.8 billion

Apple's enormous cash pile swelled to $256.8 billion in the fiscal second quarter, up more than $10 billion from the previous quarter.

That figure means Apple's war chest is now larger than the market value of General Electric, but smaller than that of Wells Fargo.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/02/apples-cash-hoard-swells-to-record-256-8-billion.html

What happens to apple's $256 billion if the federal government defaults on its $20 trillion dollar deficit and the value of the dollar plummets?

Bitcoin/crypto could well be a safer investment than either the dollar or the euro at this point.

It is possible that as deficit and default fears grow big corporations like google, apple, microsoft and others will seek to transfer their holdings to denominations of crypto as it may be more reliable than fiat like the dollar or euro.

amaral1977

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Quote from: JunoCoin on October 23, 2017, 12:37:09 PM

Since many people try to convince us that Bitcoin is a bubble and how we will lose our money eventually, I wonder if money is not a bubble actually. There exist economies in which money has a positive value in spite its market fundamental is zero. That means fiat money has zero value. Fiat money is a social contrivance. We take money from other people because we know other people will take it from us. In theory and practice the fiat money is a bubble.

Everything is a bubble or a ponzi scheme if we want to take it literally. Consider the banking system. it´s a gigantic world wide ponzi where the growing economies borrow and pay interest to te better established economies. And it relies on contiuous growth. When growth is alted there is a major retraction, banks bankrupting and governments printing adicional money to sustain it. The question is...How long can it endure? indefinitelly or will it burst exposing the bubble?

ValoremFoundation

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Quote from: Kr8os on October 23, 2017, 04:36:52 PM

If it is a bubble, it's unlikely to be bursting anytime soon. Too many countries are still cash-focused, going to be hard to convince everyone in the world to drop years of transactionary habits because it's not real.

Actually, it's not that hard. All the IMF and FED banks outside the US have to do is to agree to exclude the $ as a reserve currency. War starts. Trouble starts. $ declines in value, everyone holding debt via $ lose their shirt.

Kr8os

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If it is a bubble, it's unlikely to be bursting anytime soon. Too many countries are still cash-focused, going to be hard to convince everyone in the world to drop years of transactionary habits because it's not real.

sunsilk

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Quote from: JunoCoin on October 23, 2017, 12:37:09 PM

Since many people try to convince us that Bitcoin is a bubble and how we will lose our money eventually, I wonder if money is not a bubble actually. There exist economies in which money has a positive value in spite its market fundamental is zero. That means fiat money has zero value. Fiat money is a social contrivance. We take money from other people because we know other people will take it from us. In theory and practice the fiat money is a bubble.

Fiat money is really a bubble, backing up by the government and declares the value of it. It's actually a paper that was mixed with some other ingredients to make it worthy and has it's value.

Especially those countries that are "leading" this world and making their economies on an innovative progress, tells the world that their economy should be followed.

And that makes their fiat money more valuable than others, it's a way to make them reliable than other countries.. The sad truth.

ValoremFoundation

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Quote from: frumjanet on October 23, 2017, 03:35:57 PM

In theory - everything is a bubble. The question is whether it is deflating, or inflating. Credit card debt, housing, student loans, USD/EUR/GBP.

We just have to figure out at what point does that bubble burst. Much easier said than done Wink

It's not just one bubble. The US will never let that happen. It will be widespread panic, The thing to figure out is what will you do when your $ wont buy bread. That's what happens in communist countries that fall. Where will you go and what will you trade? Will the grocer accept BTC? Will he accept GOLD? Silver?

frumjanet

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In theory - everything is a bubble. The question is whether it is deflating, or inflating. Credit card debt, housing, student loans, USD/EUR/GBP.

We just have to figure out at what point does that bubble burst. Much easier said than done Wink

ValoremFoundation

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Quote from: BTCMILLIONAIRE on October 23, 2017, 03:25:23 PM

Quote from: ValoremFoundation on October 23, 2017, 03:24:04 PM

Quote from: deadthings on October 23, 2017, 03:20:25 PM

You're right, it's a bubble, but only in theory, why? Everything in the world is happening around it, it is money that determines the value of goods or services, without which we would not be able to control ourselves or know the value of products, and all these are set within the norm.

Money does not determine value. Value is perceived and relative. If money determined value (i.e. Gold) we'd all be using gold. And we were, but that changed. It's happening because of human emotion and hype.

We stopped using Gold because it's inconvenient and can't keep up with the demand for money.

I'm sure the FED, the US Gov't and the Bankers had nothing to do with taking us off the gold standard. It's not like it created any benefit's for them when that happened? Ever read creature from Jekyll Island? Roll Eyes

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Quote from: ValoremFoundation on October 23, 2017, 03:24:04 PM

Quote from: deadthings on October 23, 2017, 03:20:25 PM

You're right, it's a bubble, but only in theory, why? Everything in the world is happening around it, it is money that determines the value of goods or services, without which we would not be able to control ourselves or know the value of products, and all these are set within the norm.

Money does not determine value. Value is perceived and relative. If money determined value (i.e. Gold) we'd all be using gold. And we were, but that changed. It's happening because of human emotion and hype.

We stopped using Gold because it's inconvenient and can't keep up with the demand for money.

ValoremFoundation

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Quote from: deadthings on October 23, 2017, 03:20:25 PM

You're right, it's a bubble, but only in theory, why? Everything in the world is happening around it, it is money that determines the value of goods or services, without which we would not be able to control ourselves or know the value of products, and all these are set within the norm.

Money does not determine value. Value is perceived and relative. If money determined value (i.e. Gold) we'd all be using gold. And we were, but that changed. It's happening because of human emotion and hype.

Topic: Fiat Money is a Bubble - page 10. (Read 1815 times)