Financial collapse means Bitcoin boom? - page 2.

Basmic

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Quote from: manselr on October 05, 2017, 08:24:54 AM

One key point that a lot of people in the bitcoin space don't consider is the fact that you must be making a big mistake dreaming with a doomsday scenario in order to profit from it by holding bitcoin.

There is a certain threshold where civil order is lost, and in that case, your bitcoin will not save you. We have to be careful with what we wish for. Im ok with financial crisis similar to 2008, but be wary of the fact that if it gets worse, it may have an impact on bitcoin itself due hashrate going down from the technical perspective and due your own life being at risk from the obvious perspective of a situation of danger.

I hope that we don't need to see violence for people to understand the importance of holding bitcoin.

Human greed is limitless. When they feel the profit they do not think about what will happen next. The main thing for them now. It seems to me that instead of dreaming about the increase in the price of bitcoin needs to focus on creating conditions for development of trade for bitcoins. It will bring much more benefit.

manselr

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One key point that a lot of people in the bitcoin space don't consider is the fact that you must be making a big mistake dreaming with a doomsday scenario in order to profit from it by holding bitcoin.

There is a certain threshold where civil order is lost, and in that case, your bitcoin will not save you. We have to be careful with what we wish for. Im ok with financial crisis similar to 2008, but be wary of the fact that if it gets worse, it may have an impact on bitcoin itself due hashrate going down from the technical perspective and due your own life being at risk from the obvious perspective of a situation of danger.

I hope that we don't need to see violence for people to understand the importance of holding bitcoin.

Kronos21

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I disagree with you. The popularity of bitcoin is growing precisely for the reason that now all over the world have problems with the financial system. The economies of all countries have to lend to the U.S. economy. This leads to the impoverishment of countries and people and therefore people are looking for other sources of income.

1Referee

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Quote from: olivierc on October 04, 2017, 01:27:46 PM

Yes, financial collapse means bitcoin rise, and a big one is coming... there are 10-years cycle in stocks market, and we are going to see a big crash in the next 18months...

That's based on historical events, which not at all might be relevent for what's going to happen in the forthcoming years. People have been expecting a collapse of the US economy some years ago, and it didn't happen, then it was the USD that was due for a collapse, and yet again, it didn't happen.

Quote from: olivierc on October 04, 2017, 01:27:46 PM

Prepare to see bitcoin going to the moon

With or without a financial collapse, this will happen anyway. The demand for something like Bitcoin is only growing, and we have to take into consideration that this is just the beginning - if the average joes at some point come on board, we'll be up for even more fireworks. Bitcoin's store of value aspect will gain more and more ground in the forthcoming years, that's guaranteed.

azguard

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Quote from: Bellator on October 04, 2017, 02:12:17 PM

Quote from: kimochidesh on October 04, 2017, 01:36:42 PM

Venezuela economic collapse leads to a serious discussion on the fiat currency economy managed by central authorities. People all around the world are looking for a currency which gives them a stable and secure economy. Gold seems to be a good solution to this problem, but being in hard physical form, it is difficult to make day to day transactions with gold. With technological advancement, crypto-currency like BITCOIN seems to be an alternative solution as it's transaction is easy, fast and cheap.
I think if there would be economic and political chaos...Bitcoin price will surges as it is decentralized and beyond the control of central authorities.

Yes I agree that decentralized currency is beyond the control of the government authorities due to its an investment product that is digital, which mainly used as a trading platform of an online business. I believed that economic and political chaos might be a good ways to help the bitcoin price to surge as well, because people in a centralized fiat currency will divert their money to bitcoin, by the time fiat currency economy will crash.

That is something that most countries use. In Europe they rely on Euro, on west they really on USD and on east more on Yen. This is how thing are opperations all over the world but prime one for all is USD.

But like mentioned here and on other topic similar related, technology is advancing fast and this will have to be that in some point all world countries will see that alternative is crypto not just bitcoin, mostly cuz of transactions very low fees, comparing if you send 1 million dollars to another account you will have to pay 1% or more less this depend from bank in bitcoin all fees are same no mater how many you send, this is one of possible good solution for sending large amount.This also will represent a problem cuz if this goes global for adoption of crypto how will be small transactions let say we go to store and just buy milk and coffee.

Bellator

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Quote from: kimochidesh on October 04, 2017, 01:36:42 PM

Venezuela economic collapse leads to a serious discussion on the fiat currency economy managed by central authorities. People all around the world are looking for a currency which gives them a stable and secure economy. Gold seems to be a good solution to this problem, but being in hard physical form, it is difficult to make day to day transactions with gold. With technological advancement, crypto-currency like BITCOIN seems to be an alternative solution as it's transaction is easy, fast and cheap.
I think if there would be economic and political chaos...Bitcoin price will surges as it is decentralized and beyond the control of central authorities.

Yes I agree that decentralized currency is beyond the control of the government authorities due to its an investment product that is digital, which mainly used as a trading platform of an online business. I believed that economic and political chaos might be a good ways to help the bitcoin price to surge as well, because people in a centralized fiat currency will divert their money to bitcoin, by the time fiat currency economy will crash.

kimochidesh

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Venezuela economic collapse leads to a serious discussion on the fiat currency economy managed by central authorities. People all around the world are looking for a currency which gives them a stable and secure economy. Gold seems to be a good solution to this problem, but being in hard physical form, it is difficult to make day to day transactions with gold. With technological advancement, crypto-currency like BITCOIN seems to be an alternative solution as it's transaction is easy, fast and cheap.
I think if there would be economic and political chaos...Bitcoin price will surges as it is decentralized and beyond the control of central authorities.

olivierc

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Yes, financial collapse means bitcoin rise, and a big one is coming... there are 10-years cycle in stocks market, and we are going to see a big crash in the next 18months...

Prepare to see bitcoin going to the moon

manselr

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Quote from: illyiller on October 03, 2017, 05:49:46 PM

Quote from: alyssa85 on October 02, 2017, 06:53:58 AM

Quote from: illyiller on October 02, 2017, 05:44:27 AM

Quote from: alyssa85 on October 02, 2017, 05:20:28 AM

Bitcoin's price has jumped today. It was about $4200 yesterday morning, and it's now $4435.

If I was a Catalan I'd be buying bitcoin especially as the Catalan govt has announced it will declare independence on Oct 6th. The financial markets are going to be roiled, so it makes sense for Spanish and Catalans alike to put some money in bitcoin to preserve their savings.

Seriously? I doubt Bitcoin is on anyone's radar in Catalan right now. It's barely scratching the surface of mainstream investment in general. Cryptocurrency may be one of the hottest investments of the year, but it's obviously one of the riskiest asset classes available on the markets from looking at volatility.

If I was worried that my savings were in danger due to economic collapse/disruption, I would put them into safe assets like gold and US dollars. Especially considering the recent gains in crypto. Sure, we could see new highs soon, but the price could also drop in half in a few days.

It all depends on how easy it is to buy US dollars or gold, isn't it?

For the Catalans, not at all - they won't be able to open US dollar bank accounts. Buying gold is hard too - not may places sell gold coins, mostly it is jewelry that is marked up. Some might just withdraw euros and keep them at home in case something happens to the banking system. Buying bitcoin by contrast is easy and quick, and you can simply hide your wallet.dat on a USB stick.

Buying bitcoins is rarely "easy and quick" for anyone in the world. Are ATMs (where people get reamed by 10%+ fees) even available there? Wiring money to exchanges takes time and costs transfer / currency exchange fees. And more importantly, there is the knowledge gap.

Most Catalans (like everyone else in the world) likely know nothing about Bitcoin. And among those that do, few are technically savvy enough to quickly (and safely) convert their wealth into bitcoins.

One doesn't need to open US dollar bank accounts to hold US dollars. And the currency exchange fees must be paid if wiring money to exchanges to buy bitcoins as well. I suspect it is significantly easier to buy gold than bitcoins, just like it is in most places.

And this is why you want to learn about bitcoin and have everything ready BEFORE shit hits the fan and everything goes south. Of course you can't wait until the last moment because chances are you will be too nervous and screw up and lose your private keys if you manage to buy. People should start thinking 3 steps ahead and getting bitcoin already instead of wondering "why do I want to hold bitcoin? I dont need it". You never know when your government may be into big trouble, and if that happens, those that think ahead will profit the most. Imagine if you were a Venezuelan and predicted the inflationary nightmare of your government and bought earlier, or when Cyprus had a massive bailout predicting that in beforehand and owning BTC. You have to think and act before it's too late.

illyiller

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Quote from: alyssa85 on October 02, 2017, 06:53:58 AM

Quote from: illyiller on October 02, 2017, 05:44:27 AM

Quote from: alyssa85 on October 02, 2017, 05:20:28 AM

Bitcoin's price has jumped today. It was about $4200 yesterday morning, and it's now $4435.

If I was a Catalan I'd be buying bitcoin especially as the Catalan govt has announced it will declare independence on Oct 6th. The financial markets are going to be roiled, so it makes sense for Spanish and Catalans alike to put some money in bitcoin to preserve their savings.

Seriously? I doubt Bitcoin is on anyone's radar in Catalan right now. It's barely scratching the surface of mainstream investment in general. Cryptocurrency may be one of the hottest investments of the year, but it's obviously one of the riskiest asset classes available on the markets from looking at volatility.

If I was worried that my savings were in danger due to economic collapse/disruption, I would put them into safe assets like gold and US dollars. Especially considering the recent gains in crypto. Sure, we could see new highs soon, but the price could also drop in half in a few days.

It all depends on how easy it is to buy US dollars or gold, isn't it?

For the Catalans, not at all - they won't be able to open US dollar bank accounts. Buying gold is hard too - not may places sell gold coins, mostly it is jewelry that is marked up. Some might just withdraw euros and keep them at home in case something happens to the banking system. Buying bitcoin by contrast is easy and quick, and you can simply hide your wallet.dat on a USB stick.

Buying bitcoins is rarely "easy and quick" for anyone in the world. Are ATMs (where people get reamed by 10%+ fees) even available there? Wiring money to exchanges takes time and costs transfer / currency exchange fees. And more importantly, there is the knowledge gap.

Most Catalans (like everyone else in the world) likely know nothing about Bitcoin. And among those that do, few are technically savvy enough to quickly (and safely) convert their wealth into bitcoins.

One doesn't need to open US dollar bank accounts to hold US dollars. And the currency exchange fees must be paid if wiring money to exchanges to buy bitcoins as well. I suspect it is significantly easier to buy gold than bitcoins, just like it is in most places.

ivrynx

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I think if we check on what is happening today to some parts of the world we could make a conclusion, that it could also happen to us all, let's.take a look at zimbabwe, yheir current fiat, is of no value, but if you take a look at their exchanges, the value of bitcoin is higher, vomoared to the rest of the world, this is simply, though they do lack technology, they still wanted to be financially free, and so they rely on bitcoin. Another country that has its fiat, lower thqn others is japan, though japan is technologically advanced , their japandese yen still has small buying power, thus they use bitcoins, the same also goes to othef asian countries had legalized bitcoin, since their fiat has a low value, they tend to use another, it may not sound a financial collapse, but if you look at it closely, asian countries are having hard time battling inflation, since there is no asian country, whose fiat is of higer value than the dollar.

iv4n

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Quote from: manselr on October 03, 2017, 09:54:19 AM

Quote from: European Central Bank on October 02, 2017, 12:11:59 PM

if there was a real financial collapse bitcoin would turn to dust too. maybe the people writing here trust it, no one else does. people would run to gold or dollars just like always.

it's a nice idea but bitcoin's time hasn't come yet as a lifeboat. it's still a get rich quick scheme in the minds of most people who put money in and they're also the most panicky people on earth judging by the movements to the slightest scary news.

it would be nice to be proven wrong. i don't think i would be. the handful of people in places like venezuela who do use bitcoin are benefiting from the commodity boom that's fueled it that's lasted for years. they're hanging on the coattails of general market success in first world countries.

It depends on what you consider a "financial collapse". Something that would turn into massive riots on the street worse than 2008 maybe not, but 2008 type of event? I think Bitcoin would shine. Why not? you can store your value there, and it will be safe, if the rest of holders realize this, the price will not crash, but ultimately your X BTC will remain X BTC in your wallet. You can NOT definitely say this applies to the legacy banking system, and gold can be easily confiscated.

Looks like all pathways lead to BTC as being the ideal place to be in a financial collapse and it's not because im a holder, im just applying logic, I dont see a better alternative.

Both of you are right, and both of you have some good conclusions. Bitcoin is still get rich quick scheme for many people, and it's true that this people are in panic on first bad news.
Financial collapse makes people to turn to some alternatives, and bitcoin is that alternative. Yes people will buy gold, real estates, or what ever but now they can buy bitcoins or some other alt, we can choose and that is important.
We wish to have our money on safe place, and its big question for each of us is where to keep and save money. In case of financial collapse I believe that my money would be safer on blockchain. That is just my opinion, if we are smart we will have eggs in many baskets.

manselr

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Quote from: European Central Bank on October 02, 2017, 12:11:59 PM

if there was a real financial collapse bitcoin would turn to dust too. maybe the people writing here trust it, no one else does. people would run to gold or dollars just like always.

it's a nice idea but bitcoin's time hasn't come yet as a lifeboat. it's still a get rich quick scheme in the minds of most people who put money in and they're also the most panicky people on earth judging by the movements to the slightest scary news.

it would be nice to be proven wrong. i don't think i would be. the handful of people in places like venezuela who do use bitcoin are benefiting from the commodity boom that's fueled it that's lasted for years. they're hanging on the coattails of general market success in first world countries.

It depends on what you consider a "financial collapse". Something that would turn into massive riots on the street worse than 2008 maybe not, but 2008 type of event? I think Bitcoin would shine. Why not? you can store your value there, and it will be safe, if the rest of holders realize this, the price will not crash, but ultimately your X BTC will remain X BTC in your wallet. You can NOT definitely say this applies to the legacy banking system, and gold can be easily confiscated.

Looks like all pathways lead to BTC as being the ideal place to be in a financial collapse and it's not because im a holder, im just applying logic, I dont see a better alternative.

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Quote from: iamTom123 on September 28, 2017, 05:35:03 AM

There are people who are wondering what can happen to Bitcoin if there would be economic and political chaos? Will it mean that Bitcoin will surge in price or will it withered and be likewise chaotic? I think what is happening in Venezuela right now is just a foretaste of what can happen when an economy can go down to the bridge...Bitcoin can come to the rescue and can be a source of some stability and access to the outside world.

While, of course, we are not wishing any country's economy to go down the floor, having some Bitcoin and getting involved in Bitcoin can be an insurance just in case something like a Venezuela will happen to our country. This has evolved to be one of the many functions of Bitcoin as we see it.

A currency crisis is different from an economic collapse. If the economy really collapses, it will take down Bitcoin with it too. In Venezuela, due to the government's bungling, the official fiat currency has become worthless.

European Central Bank

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if there was a real financial collapse bitcoin would turn to dust too. maybe the people writing here trust it, no one else does. people would run to gold or dollars just like always.

it's a nice idea but bitcoin's time hasn't come yet as a lifeboat. it's still a get rich quick scheme in the minds of most people who put money in and they're also the most panicky people on earth judging by the movements to the slightest scary news.

it would be nice to be proven wrong. i don't think i would be. the handful of people in places like venezuela who do use bitcoin are benefiting from the commodity boom that's fueled it that's lasted for years. they're hanging on the coattails of general market success in first world countries.

JanpriX

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Quote from: iamTom123 on September 28, 2017, 05:35:03 AM

Taken from here...

There are people who are wondering what can happen to Bitcoin if there would be economic and political chaos? Will it mean that Bitcoin will surge in price or will it withered and be likewise chaotic? I think what is happening in Venezuela right now is just a foretaste of what can happen when an economy can go down to the bridge...Bitcoin can come to the rescue and can be a source of some stability and access to the outside world.

While, of course, we are not wishing any country's economy to go down the floor, having some Bitcoin and getting involved in Bitcoin can be an insurance just in case something like a Venezuela will happen to our country. This has evolved to be one of the many functions of Bitcoin as we see it.

I've been seeing this trend lately especially when there is some crisis in a country. People tend to transfer a percentage of their fiat to BTC to preserve the value of their money. The monetary value of a country who's under in a crisis goes down and to avoid the loss accompanied by it, people buy BTC. We can't hide the fact that this is really happening right now but it doesn't necessarily mean that BTC will boom and go to moon because of it. This just proves that many people are starting to put value to BTC and see this as a currency that can't be affected by economic crisis whatsoever.

ReLieD

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It's not at all necessary that financial crisis means Bitcoin boom. Forget about Bitcoin there are many examples out there where w company has to face alot of loss but with the hard work of employees and also innovative ideas , the company was back on its foot. So even Bitcoin will face major drops but still I'm confident enough that it will rise back

manselr

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Quote from: alyssa85 on October 01, 2017, 10:16:57 AM

Quote from: manselr on September 30, 2017, 08:15:41 AM

Quote from: alyssa85 on September 30, 2017, 07:24:33 AM

Tomorrow Catalonia will try to vote for independence, and Spain will try to stop them (looks like they might get violent).

IF the Catalans vote to leave and declare independence, then all hell will break loose, and we might see a flight to safety towards bitcoin. It depends entirely on how ugly it gets.

Im surprised to not see any threads about this. If they actually go through with it and declare Independence unilaterally, it could cause a lot of problems. If it becomes an international problem outside of Spain, it could escalate quickly to an European crisis, in this sense, BTC could become a very strong safe haven, as it always is thanks to Bitcoin being a neutral store of value/currency.

Have you seen the news? The Spanish police are attacking civilians, and the Catalan firemen have come out to try to protect civilians from the Spanish police. Rubber bullets have been fired and over 300 injured.

Because ballot boxes are being snatched by the police, they'll probably not be able to count the ballot - but I wouldn't be surprised if the Catalans just said, "Eff this, we're declaring independence". If they do, they are out of the EU and the euro might be in trouble (as Spain is a eurozone member). It should in theory make the bitcoin price rise as it is an independent store of value.

It for sure will go up if that happens, but Catalonia wouldn't be recognized by anyone with political and economical weight which is why they are better off in Spain, and I see it as very unlikely that their politicians are stupid enough to go on with this. The polls are weak, there isn't a clear majority of people that want to leave. It would be a mistake for them to keep pushing this nonsense. They wouldn't be any more free and they will not enjoy being part of Spain which is a recognized place. Most people doesn't know where Catalonia is compared to Spain. Their politicians would also be responsible for causing a civil war by declaring a republic over a weak referendum. The rest of people that want to remain in Spain aren't going to sit down and watch as this unfolds. I hope a peaceful solution is achieved.

alyssa85

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Quote from: matuson on October 02, 2017, 06:57:36 AM

Quote from: alyssa85 on October 02, 2017, 05:20:28 AM

Quote from: magneto on October 02, 2017, 04:17:36 AM

Quote from: alyssa85 on September 30, 2017, 07:24:33 AM

Tomorrow Catalonia will try to vote for independence, and Spain will try to stop them (looks like they might get violent).

IF the Catalans vote to leave and declare independence, then all hell will break loose, and we might see a flight to safety towards bitcoin. It depends entirely on how ugly it gets.

This could be possible... But i don't think that political instability alone is enough to make people flood in bitcoin.

However as i've said, when financial situations get real bad, so bad that people cannot transact on a daily basis for their basic needs since their national currency is in a hyperinflationary mess, they will look for an alternative.

An alternative that is a store of value. So it's really only either bitcoin or preciosu metals. Bitcoin is gaining popularity as a safe haven like this.

Bitcoin's price has jumped today. It was about $4200 yesterday morning, and it's now $4435.

If I was a Catalan I'd be buying bitcoin especially as the Catalan govt has announced it will declare independence on Oct 6th. The financial markets are going to be roiled, so it makes sense for Spanish and Catalans alike to put some money in bitcoin to preserve their savings.

I very much doubt that Catalonia will ever be recognized as an independent state. The world does not recognize and to be independent in isolation is unrealistic. Bitcoin you won't help you. Now the world really is a crisis of democracy.This leads to the fact that the influence of uneducated people and the world plunged into chaos.

Well the United States said they won't recognise Catalonia.

But Brexit Britain might, especially if the brexit negotiations go badly, we'd have nothing to lose by recognising them and it would piss off the Spanish royally.

matuson

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Quote from: alyssa85 on October 02, 2017, 05:20:28 AM

Quote from: magneto on October 02, 2017, 04:17:36 AM

Quote from: alyssa85 on September 30, 2017, 07:24:33 AM

Tomorrow Catalonia will try to vote for independence, and Spain will try to stop them (looks like they might get violent).

IF the Catalans vote to leave and declare independence, then all hell will break loose, and we might see a flight to safety towards bitcoin. It depends entirely on how ugly it gets.

This could be possible... But i don't think that political instability alone is enough to make people flood in bitcoin.

However as i've said, when financial situations get real bad, so bad that people cannot transact on a daily basis for their basic needs since their national currency is in a hyperinflationary mess, they will look for an alternative.

An alternative that is a store of value. So it's really only either bitcoin or preciosu metals. Bitcoin is gaining popularity as a safe haven like this.

Bitcoin's price has jumped today. It was about $4200 yesterday morning, and it's now $4435.

If I was a Catalan I'd be buying bitcoin especially as the Catalan govt has announced it will declare independence on Oct 6th. The financial markets are going to be roiled, so it makes sense for Spanish and Catalans alike to put some money in bitcoin to preserve their savings.

I very much doubt that Catalonia will ever be recognized as an independent state. The world does not recognize and to be independent in isolation is unrealistic. Bitcoin you won't help you. Now the world really is a crisis of democracy.This leads to the fact that the influence of uneducated people and the world plunged into chaos.

Topic: Financial collapse means Bitcoin boom? - page 2. (Read 1854 times)