Financial collapse means Bitcoin boom? - page 3.

alyssa85

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Quote from: illyiller on October 02, 2017, 05:44:27 AM

Quote from: alyssa85 on October 02, 2017, 05:20:28 AM

Bitcoin's price has jumped today. It was about $4200 yesterday morning, and it's now $4435.

If I was a Catalan I'd be buying bitcoin especially as the Catalan govt has announced it will declare independence on Oct 6th. The financial markets are going to be roiled, so it makes sense for Spanish and Catalans alike to put some money in bitcoin to preserve their savings.

Seriously? I doubt Bitcoin is on anyone's radar in Catalan right now. It's barely scratching the surface of mainstream investment in general. Cryptocurrency may be one of the hottest investments of the year, but it's obviously one of the riskiest asset classes available on the markets from looking at volatility.

If I was worried that my savings were in danger due to economic collapse/disruption, I would put them into safe assets like gold and US dollars. Especially considering the recent gains in crypto. Sure, we could see new highs soon, but the price could also drop in half in a few days.

It all depends on how easy it is to buy US dollars or gold, isn't it?

For the Catalans, not at all - they won't be able to open US dollar bank accounts. Buying gold is hard too - not may places sell gold coins, mostly it is jewelry that is marked up. Some might just withdraw euros and keep them at home in case something happens to the banking system. Buying bitcoin by contrast is easy and quick, and you can simply hide your wallet.dat on a USB stick.

illyiller

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Quote from: alyssa85 on October 02, 2017, 05:20:28 AM

Bitcoin's price has jumped today. It was about $4200 yesterday morning, and it's now $4435.

If I was a Catalan I'd be buying bitcoin especially as the Catalan govt has announced it will declare independence on Oct 6th. The financial markets are going to be roiled, so it makes sense for Spanish and Catalans alike to put some money in bitcoin to preserve their savings.

Seriously? I doubt Bitcoin is on anyone's radar in Catalan right now. It's barely scratching the surface of mainstream investment in general. Cryptocurrency may be one of the hottest investments of the year, but it's obviously one of the riskiest asset classes available on the markets from looking at volatility.

If I was worried that my savings were in danger due to economic collapse/disruption, I would put them into safe assets like gold and US dollars. Especially considering the recent gains in crypto. Sure, we could see new highs soon, but the price could also drop in half in a few days.

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Quote from: magneto on October 02, 2017, 04:17:36 AM

Quote from: alyssa85 on September 30, 2017, 07:24:33 AM

Tomorrow Catalonia will try to vote for independence, and Spain will try to stop them (looks like they might get violent).

IF the Catalans vote to leave and declare independence, then all hell will break loose, and we might see a flight to safety towards bitcoin. It depends entirely on how ugly it gets.

This could be possible... But i don't think that political instability alone is enough to make people flood in bitcoin.

However as i've said, when financial situations get real bad, so bad that people cannot transact on a daily basis for their basic needs since their national currency is in a hyperinflationary mess, they will look for an alternative.

An alternative that is a store of value. So it's really only either bitcoin or preciosu metals. Bitcoin is gaining popularity as a safe haven like this.

Bitcoin's price has jumped today. It was about $4200 yesterday morning, and it's now $4435.

If I was a Catalan I'd be buying bitcoin especially as the Catalan govt has announced it will declare independence on Oct 6th. The financial markets are going to be roiled, so it makes sense for Spanish and Catalans alike to put some money in bitcoin to preserve their savings.

magneto

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Quote from: alyssa85 on September 30, 2017, 07:24:33 AM

Tomorrow Catalonia will try to vote for independence, and Spain will try to stop them (looks like they might get violent).

IF the Catalans vote to leave and declare independence, then all hell will break loose, and we might see a flight to safety towards bitcoin. It depends entirely on how ugly it gets.

This could be possible... But i don't think that political instability alone is enough to make people flood in bitcoin.

However as i've said, when financial situations get real bad, so bad that people cannot transact on a daily basis for their basic needs since their national currency is in a hyperinflationary mess, they will look for an alternative.

An alternative that is a store of value. So it's really only either bitcoin or preciosu metals. Bitcoin is gaining popularity as a safe haven like this.

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Quote from: manselr on September 30, 2017, 08:15:41 AM

Quote from: alyssa85 on September 30, 2017, 07:24:33 AM

Tomorrow Catalonia will try to vote for independence, and Spain will try to stop them (looks like they might get violent).

IF the Catalans vote to leave and declare independence, then all hell will break loose, and we might see a flight to safety towards bitcoin. It depends entirely on how ugly it gets.

Im surprised to not see any threads about this. If they actually go through with it and declare Independence unilaterally, it could cause a lot of problems. If it becomes an international problem outside of Spain, it could escalate quickly to an European crisis, in this sense, BTC could become a very strong safe haven, as it always is thanks to Bitcoin being a neutral store of value/currency.

Have you seen the news? The Spanish police are attacking civilians, and the Catalan firemen have come out to try to protect civilians from the Spanish police. Rubber bullets have been fired and over 300 injured.

Because ballot boxes are being snatched by the police, they'll probably not be able to count the ballot - but I wouldn't be surprised if the Catalans just said, "Eff this, we're declaring independence". If they do, they are out of the EU and the euro might be in trouble (as Spain is a eurozone member). It should in theory make the bitcoin price rise as it is an independent store of value.

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Quote from: Kyraishi on September 30, 2017, 02:09:48 AM

It may not be value of bitcoin booming when a financial crisis hits since even though on paper it seems like the price is absolutely skyrocketing the fiat is actually hyperinflating so much that you probably wouldn't really see a major difference in bitcoin value.

However, bitcoin will hold its value against inflation.

And, when a financial collapse happens, bitcoin adopters will grow drastically as it is the most convenient non-central bank backed currency available.

As long as bitcoin maintains its current overall upward trajectory, even during a financial crisis, it's still going to be gaining more value than fiat currencies that are experiencing hyperinflation. Even in the rare situations where inflation in a country is hundreds or thousands of percent per year, those numbers are usually measured against reserve currencies like USD, and if bitcoin is appreciating with respect to USD, its value will be appreciating even more with respect to those hyper inflating currencies.

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Quote from: alyssa85 on September 30, 2017, 07:24:33 AM

Tomorrow Catalonia will try to vote for independence, and Spain will try to stop them (looks like they might get violent).

IF the Catalans vote to leave and declare independence, then all hell will break loose, and we might see a flight to safety towards bitcoin. It depends entirely on how ugly it gets.

Im surprised to not see any threads about this. If they actually go through with it and declare Independence unilaterally, it could cause a lot of problems. If it becomes an international problem outside of Spain, it could escalate quickly to an European crisis, in this sense, BTC could become a very strong safe haven, as it always is thanks to Bitcoin being a neutral store of value/currency.

alyssa85

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Tomorrow Catalonia will try to vote for independence, and Spain will try to stop them (looks like they might get violent).

IF the Catalans vote to leave and declare independence, then all hell will break loose, and we might see a flight to safety towards bitcoin. It depends entirely on how ugly it gets.

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Quote from: Mpamaegbu on September 29, 2017, 06:50:02 AM

I am cocksure that one of the things that led Satoshi into establishing bitcoin was the global financial meltdown in 2008. It really was so chaotic that firms, companies and institutions shut down because they couldn't meet up. In 2009, bitcoin came up as an alternative to the traditional financial institution. With the Cyprus scenario a few years later, the strength of the bitcoin was tested and that proved its effectiveness. Bitcoin is above traditional financial institution and that's what scares China. The Chinese feel it's going to permanently floor their Yuan. Hence, the dramatic ban on it. Yes, that should be a boom for bitcoin.

Precisely. Bitcoin naturally is a store of value as it has a controlled and slow inflation curve that cannot be altered or sped up by any central entity. This is what makes bitcoin a special investment, it is basically "digital gold".

When financial collapses happen, people look for a store of value. In this digital day and age i think that most people will turn to bitcoin.

And this is proven, as Zimbabweans as well as Venezuelans have enjoyed bitcoin and there is a huge increase in btc users in those countries.

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It may not be value of bitcoin booming when a financial crisis hits since even though on paper it seems like the price is absolutely skyrocketing the fiat is actually hyperinflating so much that you probably wouldn't really see a major difference in bitcoin value.

However, bitcoin will hold its value against inflation.

And, when a financial collapse happens, bitcoin adopters will grow drastically as it is the most convenient non-central bank backed currency available.

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Quote from: Rahar02 on September 29, 2017, 09:51:23 PM

Financial collapse mean a government can not run the country, only 2 reasons; corruptions and huge debts to central bank.
At least, a country without debts can not bankrupt and that's why citizens should choose the right person to run the government.
Bitcoin will be one of many precious assets during economy crisis in a country, but doesn't mean bitcoin boom I guess, unless one or two big countries going collapse. If somehow most countries facing economics crisis, many people will cash out bitcoin, which mean the price will constantly decline.

I do agree with this. Bitcoin is a big help for those people who experience hyper inflation and as what I understand, Satoshi Nakamoto was able to think of bitcoin because of his experience in the 2008 financial crisis so he think of a solution that will not be inflationary and thus the birth of bitcoin. There are still so many debates as to what is the use of bitcoin and I believe one of its original purpose is to beat the inflation and observing that it thus help the people who are actually experiencing it, Satoshi Nakamoto may be happy that his idea has been fruitful.

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Financial collapse mean a government can not run the country, only 2 reasons; corruptions and huge debts to central bank.
At least, a country without debts can not bankrupt and that's why citizens should choose the right person to run the government.
Bitcoin will be one of many precious assets during economy crisis in a country, but doesn't mean bitcoin boom I guess, unless one or two big countries going collapse. If somehow most countries facing economics crisis, many people will cash out bitcoin, which mean the price will constantly decline.

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Quote from: manselr on September 29, 2017, 05:12:11 PM

Quote from: kwukduck on September 28, 2017, 10:06:46 AM

Somebody explain to me why a system that can't even handle low volumes like we have now would boom?

Something that solves a problem can boom. Bitcoin can't even handle current transaction volume, which is like 0.00001% of global transactions.

People aren't even using bitcoin to complain about capacity problems, as exposed by the research on mempool spam:

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/curious-case-bitcoins-moby-dick-spam-and-miners-confirmed-it/

Nobody is even using bitcoin anywhere enough to demand a rushed hardfork that would put incompetent developers in charge of the main branch coupled with a price crash. Jeff Garzik and the rest of NYA signers will be responsible of billions in loses. They should run for cover.

The expected boom could not elimimate tha said fork due to bitcoin isn't yet recognized woldwide, but more selected individuals were starting to learn how to adopt this currency. I don't think it will significantly affects the economy financial collapse as well. Speculations is getting more negative we as a people who trust bitvcoin must not be afftected a lot.

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Quote from: kwukduck on September 28, 2017, 10:06:46 AM

Somebody explain to me why a system that can't even handle low volumes like we have now would boom?

Something that solves a problem can boom. Bitcoin can't even handle current transaction volume, which is like 0.00001% of global transactions.

People aren't even using bitcoin to complain about capacity problems, as exposed by the research on mempool spam:

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/curious-case-bitcoins-moby-dick-spam-and-miners-confirmed-it/

Nobody is even using bitcoin anywhere enough to demand a rushed hardfork that would put incompetent developers in charge of the main branch coupled with a price crash. Jeff Garzik and the rest of NYA signers will be responsible of billions in loses. They should run for cover.

Coffee135

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Quote from: Mpamaegbu on September 29, 2017, 06:50:02 AM

I am cocksure that one of the things that led Satoshi into establishing bitcoin was the global financial meltdown in 2008. It really was so chaotic that firms, companies and institutions shut down because they couldn't meet up. In 2009, bitcoin came up as an alternative to the traditional financial institution. With the Cyprus scenario a few years later, the strength of the bitcoin was tested and that proved its effectiveness. Bitcoin is above traditional financial institution and that's what scares China. The Chinese feel it's going to permanently floor their Yuan. Hence, the dramatic ban on it. Yes, that should be a boom for bitcoin.

One bans the bitcoin issue can not be solved. I think the Chinese understand this. There is a notion that if a problem cannot be solved it must lead. Probably China will go this way. The rumors that China bans crypto, the market will remain only rumors.

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on September 28, 2017, 09:33:14 PM

I don't know about bitcoin being the go-to currency. I would think the USD would be it, or gold, or some other stable form of money. Keyword is stable, and that's one thing bitcoin isn't. I'm also not convinced those currencies will fail altogether. They could just be in a serious dip and might rebound.

Bitcoin has got to get a hell of a lot less volatile before it's a safe haven form of money.

If this is going to happen and it will many will lokk for some possible low risk solution. Like you mentioned many will go for USD cuz its world wide spread and gold cuz it has physical value. Bitcoin will also be some good alternative for many or some other crypto coin (possible ETH).

BTW almost nothing is stable on current market exchange.

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I am cocksure that one of the things that led Satoshi into establishing bitcoin was the global financial meltdown in 2008. It really was so chaotic that firms, companies and institutions shut down because they couldn't meet up. In 2009, bitcoin came up as an alternative to the traditional financial institution. With the Cyprus scenario a few years later, the strength of the bitcoin was tested and that proved its effectiveness. Bitcoin is above traditional financial institution and that's what scares China. The Chinese feel it's going to permanently floor their Yuan. Hence, the dramatic ban on it. Yes, that should be a boom for bitcoin.

Wipro

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Quote from: CoinsCoinsEverywhere on September 29, 2017, 04:07:27 AM

As many have pointed out, historically, financial crises of various sorts have driven some people to cryptocurrencies, which has been a boon for bitcoin.

But here's an interesting question: if a financial collapse pushes people into bitcoin, could that actually make the crisis worse because people are taking money out of the banks and other savings and buying bitcoin? Or, for that matter, could people running toward bitcoin actually precipitate a crisis due to withdrawing too much money from the banks? This seems unlikely now, but what about in the future if bitcoin is worth $25k, $50k, or more?

That time blockchain will be top of all the banks in world like world reserve banking system. They will eager to do tie up with the blockchain technology since it is much secured and anonymous pipeline to be used. First it has to become centralized money and then we have check the people interested from the various countries. Still I am not convinced that op mentioned countries in the top list.

CoinsCoinsEverywhere

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As many have pointed out, historically, financial crises of various sorts have driven some people to cryptocurrencies, which has been a boon for bitcoin.

But here's an interesting question: if a financial collapse pushes people into bitcoin, could that actually make the crisis worse because people are taking money out of the banks and other savings and buying bitcoin? Or, for that matter, could people running toward bitcoin actually precipitate a crisis due to withdrawing too much money from the banks? This seems unlikely now, but what about in the future if bitcoin is worth $25k, $50k, or more?

xPPx

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I ain't trying to get rich. I'm just trying not to get robbed. BTC could go up only 5% a year all I care. I'd take 50% a year, though!

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