Fixed amount vs. infinite coins - page 2.

Twinkledoe

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Quote from: enhu on August 17, 2020, 05:02:45 PM

The number of cryptocurrencies listed on CMC and the supply they have must have been more than enough for the 8B people in the world though. There are tokens thats more than 100B and there are infinite supply like ETH. Not all of these tokens are going to be used widely though. Fixed amount however isn't a problem. In the case of BTC is that 1BTC has 8 decimals which we can send by a fraction.

Also, for me it doesn't matter whether fixed amount or infinite supply. As long as there is real usage of the coin. But sadly, most of them are crap. So we always go back to btc, even with fixed supply, as you said, we can just work those 8 decimals and each decimal will have a value. Because in the future, even 1 sat maybe valuable in the market.

jostorres

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If there is a chance for any cryptocurrency to become adopted as a real payment method, we all know very well that only Bitcoin stands a chance of being adopted by so many people as a payment method, none of those alternative cryptocurrencies stands such a chance to be adopted. The way I see Bitcoin, it all depends on the users, it was created to give you freedom to use it anyhow you want.

There are those who wants to be making use of cryptocurrency for transaction and there are those who are using for other purposes. I don’t make use of bitcoin for making purchase, I just use it for transfer to people living in other countries, because it’s more easy than when you make use of banks. I also use it as a store of value.

enhu

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The number of cryptocurrencies listed on CMC and the supply they have must have been more than enough for the 8B people in the world though. There are tokens thats more than 100B and there are infinite supply like ETH. Not all of these tokens are going to be used widely though. Fixed amount however isn't a problem. In the case of BTC is that 1BTC has 8 decimals which we can send by a fraction.

cryptoperkele

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Quote from: viparmenia on August 17, 2020, 01:44:30 PM

Just one answer to many claiming bitcoin is used in real stores or online - could you upload a bill when you last time paid with bitcoin?

My point is - people are not ready will never be ready to use bitcoin for anything else than wealth storage because of it is to expensive and getting more and more expensive - it is psychological problem

Why should anyone jump hoops and upload any bill for your amusement? So that people could track them and their purchaces? Technically most of the purchases are handled in fiat money anyway. With wirex you have to swap btc/xrp or what ever crypto to eur/usd first with your app and then use it with your card.

And bitbay converts it to the fiat for merchant (at least i think that's the process) but who cares, i bought a laptop with it without touching fiat. And people are constantly using it, why do you need proof exactly? Hell. I just changed btc to eur and ordered beer with my wirex and i am oblicated to give proof now to impress a random person in the internet who doesn't "believe" people are using bitcoin?

philipma1957

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Quote from: viparmenia on August 15, 2020, 10:34:06 AM

BitcoinBTC maximalists "selling" it since 2015 as an alternative payments.

Last 3 years there were lot of adoptions of BTC Bitcoin mainly on trade markets.
But still no real daily market where the people use bitcoinBTC as a payment - just get out and try to buy a food for Bitcoin - almost impossible.

Limitation of amount for a coin like bitcoin or any other altcoin as well low inflation makes it only worth to use as wealth storage.

Gold were also a payment unit till middle of last century, but now it is only wealth storage and speculation object on market.

Same is almost happen with BTCbitcoinBTC, moreover it is to volatile to be used as payment.

Except Satoshi Nakamoto will defreeze his million BTCbitcoinBTC there is no chance for bitcoin to became real payment alternative to 100 of fiats and inbetween 3000 alternative coins, some with infinite supply.

Like it or not too many people have read and followed my signature.

BTC acts as a 10,000 treasury bill
LTC act like cash
Doge acts like small purchase cash

It is backed by a ton of asic gear and it works.

All other ideas won't be better than this. They would be different but not better.

My signature is looked at every day. Like it or not it is viable and it works.
I am of the opinion if people just followed that all scaling goes by-by as it is fixed and would be able to make cashless world. Or at least a world of lessor cash needs.

the resistance to my signature is it fucks banks and rich mother fuckers big time.

So rich people keep trying to scale btc into workable single crypto system. Which won't work. Which is why they keep trying to do it.

One exception is Elon Musk as he has touted Doge more than once.

viparmenia

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Just one answer to many claiming bitcoin is used in real stores or online - could you upload a bill when you last time paid with bitcoin?

My point is - people are not ready will never be ready to use bitcoin for anything else than wealth storage because of it is to expensive and getting more and more expensive - it is psychological problem

viparmenia

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Quote from: leyton11 on August 15, 2020, 03:54:53 PM

Quote from: viparmenia on August 15, 2020, 10:34:06 AM

Limitation of amount for a coin like bitcoin or any other altcoin as well low inflation makes it only worth to use as wealth storage.

Gold were also a payment unit till middle of last century, but now it is only wealth storage and speculation object on market.

Same is almost happen with BTCbitcoinBTC, moreover it is to volatile to be used as payment.

I don't think this is true. Low inflation or deflation are just theories people put forward for bitcoin. It is important that it always shows up on Bitcoin's price. If we say Halving, cutting the supply rate makes an asset that will increase its value is not correct. it also depends on human needs. I believe that bitcoin will never be put on our market, because every transaction is anonymous and therefore money laundering will be even easier. the government won't let this happen.

Bitcoin transactions are not anonymous, just it is a bit harder to identify, but with enough computing power all transactions could be followed backed.

thesmallgod

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I disagree with you in some areas. Firstly, there are many business areas that operate daily that you can buy with bitcoin. I will not start mentioning this because there are many threads this has been discussed. You can search for it yourself. I believe the area you specifically make reference to is the most important to you but with time maybe we shall see more food store accepting bitcoin although there are still some fast-food restaurant that accept it https://cointelegraph.com/news/retailers-around-the-world-that-accept-crypto-from-pizza-to-travel

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There would be a lot of difference between the both of them since some of the platforms that they might be working on is limited. If we talk about inflation, I guess that would be just a sad way on how can somebody else get money from you since inflation can happen anytime. Looking at fixed amounts of coins is a good way that you know where to buy those Alternate Coins and how to use them. Infinite coins on the other hand, we can say that it also has an unlimited opportunities on how to grow.

cryptoperkele

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Quote from: imstillthebest on August 17, 2020, 08:21:33 AM

Quote from: cryptoperkele on August 17, 2020, 05:39:40 AM

What? You do know that you can just add more digits to the Bitcoin in the future to divide it to smaller amounts then satoshi. "Runnin out of coins" isn't a thing.

you cant just add and add digits unless it is legally introduced...

First of all, you can just add digits after decimal point, secondly i literally don't understand what you even mean by "legally"

Quote from: imstillthebest on August 17, 2020, 08:21:33 AM

...and so what if btc is dividable ? it will still run out in the long run but it can happen slower because of the increasing value . there could be a coin with a low supply but im curious if all of its supply is already accumulated and what happen to them ?. infinite supply can decrease the value of the coin , why not add only a sufficient amount of supply so that theres still chance for increase .

This is just nonsense based on the idea that it somehow "runs out" because no one is selling it anymore. That doesn't even mean anything. Just because you have tiny amount in relative to "whole" bitcoin doesn't mean you can't use it.

Botnake

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I'll go for fixed amount, the problem of bitcoin on why it's not stable is not because of the supply, but because we are still in the process of massive or real adoption where investors are still the one dictating the price movement, once there's a massive adoption, things will eventually change.

Imagine, 1 satoshi is equal to 1 usd, I guess the supply is more than enough to cater everyone who wants to use bitcoin as a payment system, but transactions should not go directly in the blockchain, a 3rd party project (payment processor) is important to make transactions faster and cheaper.

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Quote from: imstillthebest on August 17, 2020, 08:21:33 AM

you cant just add and add digits unless it is legally introduced and so what if btc is dividable ?

I have never heard that solving mathematical problems require you to comply with legislation, thought you should only need to know how mathematical laws work. Look I can add any digits I want: 1 BTC = 0.00000000001 BTC * 100000000000 millisatoshis. It's a magic! Well, not really. Lightning Network already does that every day and, you know, system is not collapsed, bitcoin economy still works as intended.

alani123

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Infinite coin supply would be too much against bitcoin's principles for it to be integrated as a feature.
It's a feature that's the very core of bitcoin at this point and I think that one shouldn't dismiss the fact that there's much of the community and support behind bitcoin is because of this very feature.

Anyone looking to create a coin with infinite supply is very much free to do so. Satoshi never said that there shouldn't be currency competition. The code for bitcoin was always open and I'm sure it wasn't just because Satoshi wanted improvements. If you want an example of a bitcoin ~~copycat~~ competitor that has infinite supply, you need to look no further than dogecoin.

Theoretically because DOGE has such a small value and so many coins the fee value as part of the transaction is bound to be smaller than in other cryptocurrencies. But realistically speaking, because of the lower incentives to mine, the network is not as secure and hence it's even less likely to become a payment tool that could serve people at a wider scale.

Harlot

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I don't get your argument when you agreed that it is a "wealth storage" and it can quickly overcome to inflation yet if can't be a "payment" because it is volatile. For it being some kind of payment that people can actually use volatility isn't really an issue here since people can quickly sell the Bitcoin they receive as payment in order for their earnings not be subject to any kind of price movement as well as capital gains tax as you didn't hold it for price appreciation. For the consumer side it's really up to you on what you see in your crypto assets if it is worth to spend it on a purchase or not, it really depends on you.

maye5104

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Haven't you heard that Bitcoin is very dividable? Fixed amount makes it more scarce and valuable.

imstillthebest

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Quote from: cryptoperkele on August 17, 2020, 05:39:40 AM

Quote from: Febo on August 15, 2020, 01:55:44 PM

Quote from: viparmenia on August 15, 2020, 10:34:06 AM

Fixed amount vs. infinite coins

Fixed mount is dumb, because there will sooner or latter run out of coins. Infinite supply is solution. What matres is schedule that is set in stone before first block is mined and stay that way forever. So at any point we exactly know how many coins will be in existence at any time.

What? You do know that you can just add more digits to the Bitcoin in the future to divide it to smaller amounts then satoshi. "Runnin out of coins" isn't a thing.

you cant just add and add digits unless it is legally introduced and so what if btc is dividable ? it will still run out in the long run but it can happen slower because of the increasing value . there could be a coin with a low supply but im curious if all of its supply is already accumulated and what happen to them ?. infinite supply can decrease the value of the coin , why not add only a sufficient amount of supply so that theres still chance for increase .

Ucy

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I don't think it will be too difficult to get people to accept Bitcoin in their businesses. There are some things that need to be addressed by the network to encourage lots of us to promote the use of Bitcoin to businesses. Things like recovering of lost private keys, reverting certain transactions mistakes, customers services, decentralized/peer-to-peer transactions, safe control of private keys, etc

Bitcoin has to be a store of value (aswell as medium of exchange) too. Its deflationary feature makes it a good store of value.

In my opinion, gold is not a very good as money for large and growing population, and it isn't really a good idea to have things like "digital/virtual gold" without it being very transparent or at least being decentralized.
If you want a good currency in paper form, you still have to be make it very decentralized and transparent. This has been solved, but I doubt certain people will like the idea. It will still be deflationary though... so we don't reduce the value of people's wealth through constant printing of papers

cryptoperkele

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Quote from: Febo on August 15, 2020, 01:55:44 PM

Quote from: viparmenia on August 15, 2020, 10:34:06 AM

Fixed amount vs. infinite coins

Fixed mount is dumb, because there will sooner or latter run out of coins. Infinite supply is solution. What matres is schedule that is set in stone before first block is mined and stay that way forever. So at any point we exactly know how many coins will be in existence at any time.

What? You do know that you can just add more digits to the Bitcoin in the future to divide it to smaller amounts then satoshi. "Runnin out of coins" isn't a thing.

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Quote from: viparmenia on August 15, 2020, 01:44:06 PM

Bitcoin will never be used for payments so it could not be used for real economy.

It looks like you are still living in the past or probably you are in some place where almost all people don't know anything about bitcoin.
I have seen some businesses around here and also online stores where Bitcoin is accepted for payments and more are still joining.

Of course don't expect Bitcoin to take full control of a country's economy because governments will never all that but it will always be an alternate means people will use for payments whether you want it or not.

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Quote from: Febo on August 15, 2020, 01:55:44 PM

Quote from: viparmenia on August 15, 2020, 10:34:06 AM

Fixed amount vs. infinite coins

Fixed mount is dumb, because there will sooner or latter run out of coins. Infinite supply is solution. What matres is schedule that is set in stone before first block is mined and stay that way forever. So at any point we exactly know how many coins will be in existence at any time.

That is nonsense you will never run out of coins you can infinity do splits on the current supply like with bitcoin if in 50,000 years there was only 20 bitcoins left do to lost keys and burned coins.
You simply would just need to turn the Satoshi 0.00000001 into a 1 and then allow Satohis to be split into 100 million parts so 0.0000000100000000
But when you receive a Satoshi the client says 1 Satoshi and you could do things like 0.05 Satoshis

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