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Topic: Fixed supply doesn't matter (change my mind) - page 3. (Read 480 times)

jr. member
Activity: 28
Merit: 37
It would be great if we can see your reasons why you believe such
How do you put it again
Convince us that Bitcoin supply is inflated
Personally look forward to understanding your view.

Basically what is happening right now is deflation by inflating the price of Bitcoin through Tether printer without real backing.

When this breaks (and it will break at some point) the outcome will be the same as if the actual supply of BTC was inflated as the value will drop significantly (as if the supply was increased).

It's good that it's fixed as at least we're not attacked from both sides but the threat remains the same.
jr. member
Activity: 28
Merit: 37
...
But the fact that Bitcoin is a stand alone crypto currency that is not controlled by any company or individual, make bitcoin imunune to any form of price inflation
...

https://youtu.be/eafzIW52Rgc?t=1049
sr. member
Activity: 278
Merit: 255
If fixed supply can be infinitely inflated (when it comes to price) and thus creating a bubble that can burst, it is not being different from supply that is not fixed.

Example, current Bitcoin price inflated by Tether printer with no real backing.


Fixed supply of BTC doesn't matter, when the price can be infinitely inflated by Tether printer.
As much as I understand the point you are trying to make, which actually can and would have been true and justifiable only if bitcoin and tether were a product of the same company, or under the same company.
But the fact that Bitcoin is a stand alone crypto currency that is not controlled by any company or individual, make bitcoin imunune to any form of price inflation, tether has and can't inflate the price the price of bitcoin, if they need bitcoin, they have to buy it from the open market just as everyone does, and for them to make any profit, other  investors have to also invest in bitcoin too, which means that when the demand for bitcoin becomes high, it's price rise according to the level of its demand, tether has no way of inflating the price of bitcoin, before you even imagine this, you would have first tried to find out how many bitcoin tether (as a company) has in their custody, and also check at what price they bought it, then compare that to the current price of bitcoin, then tell us if it was tether that inflated it's price.
full member
Activity: 308
Merit: 143
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!

So far no one was able to change my mind, the outcome is the same as if the Bitcoin supply itself was inflated.

It would be great if we can see your reasons why you believe such
How do you put it again
Convince us that Bitcoin supply is inflated
Personally look forward to understanding your view.
full member
Activity: 308
Merit: 143
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!

So far no one was able to change my mind, the outcome is the same as if the Bitcoin supply itself was inflated.

in essence you mean Bitcoin price is overrated. It shouldn't worth is current amount?
Well value sometimes is subjective
To you it isn't worth it
To others it's undervalue
Everybody has their view
And as Adult be ready to face the consequences of their decision.
Not trying to change your mind
Just pointing out my view.
Quote
Times have changed, Bitcoin was once used due to it's privacy but when that dropped DNM's replaced it with different project.
People still tried to use BTC privately but the recent attack on mixers will shift this people to different solutions.
Bitcoin wasn't created technically for privacy but decentralization system which because of scalabilty is failing out but it has grown bigger than just a peer to peer system.
The different solution like Privacy coins? That the government are actively fighting against?
Or methods like atomic swap that still makes use of Bitcoin?
Privacy was the single reason many option for Bitcoin.
The thing you neglecting is the belief of the public
Bitcoin is the face of the cryptoworld and for cryptocurrency to stay alive Bitcoin has to be alive
There are coins with better privacy, better scalabilty and functions but Bitcoin still remains the first because it's Bitcoin and still remains practically the most decentralized blockchain.
That assurance itself is a utility.
It's profitability is a utility.
The cost to mine a BTC also adds to its value.


If you believe it's useless and has nothing to offer then take it as a collectible with potential.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1563
Bitcoin Casino Est. 2013
It does matter, with an endless supply, that would mean that we can just wait for more bitcoins to be mined and the desire to acquire it is just too low which means that there's lower demand and the prices would be lower, you can't do what DeBeers did with diamonds to bitcoin, large supply but through conspiracy, being able to inflate the price. Look at all these altcoins out there with billions in total supply if not bottomless, are they as desirable to acquire as bitcoin, what's their current price?
jr. member
Activity: 28
Merit: 37
Yes Bitcoin would dip
Not the first time nor the second nor the last
But it would surely rise higher when everything calms.
That's a bold claim.

Like I said Bitcoin survived without Tether for 5 years while still a toddler
How wouldn't it survive without it as an Adolescent.

Times have changed, Bitcoin was once used due to it's privacy but when that dropped DNM's replaced it with different project.
People still tried to use BTC privately but the recent attack on mixers will shift this people to different solutions.

So far no one was able to change my mind, the outcome is the same as if the Bitcoin supply itself was inflated.
full member
Activity: 308
Merit: 143
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
...
Bitcoin is an asset
People value it for its fixed supply among other benefits
So that's proof that it matters.
...

Surely it seems very attractive after being a part of FIAT system, but my point was that it can be abused indirectly with artificial price growth and financial bubbles we all know from FIAT world.

Significant part of current price is due to Tether printer and not actual demand.

So the fixed supply does not defend from bursting of this bubbles as Tether can collapse any day while USD will be just fine, what won't be fine is the Bitcoin price diving uncontrollably due to massive panic sales.
In a nutshell you saying Bitcoin has no significant Demand.
The thing is anything that occurs to big player in the market affect everyone
Yes Bitcoin would dip
Not the first time nor the second nor the last
But it would surely rise higher when everything calms.
Like I said Bitcoin survived without Tether for 5 years while still a toddler
How wouldn't it survive without it as an Adolescent.
The fixed supply like I said is one of the reasons many people place value on Bitcoin and because of the scarcity in the future.
People would want to own it now that's cheaper
It's like land
It falls during economic crisis or war
Despite having limited supply and substantial uses
Doesn't mean it wouldn't pick back up when everything settles
Why?
Because it's limited in supply, needed and would increase as time goes on.
You don't have to over think it
Usdt isn't the biggest problem of Bitcoin.

sr. member
Activity: 1582
Merit: 281
Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!
I think you’re not understanding it as you should. Fixed supply means that the total supply is fixed and can’t move. This is not because Bitcoin is worth a lot of money today. What it means is that even if Bitcoin because $1 for each, we still can’t have more than the defined total supply. This is very different for a currency that doesn’t have a fixed supply and keeps on getting created. Its value will keep decreasing due to increase in the total supply.
newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 0

Surely it seems very attractive after being a part of FIAT system, but my point was that it can be abused indirectly with artificial price growth and financial bubbles we all know from FIAT world.

Significant part of current price is due to Tether printer and not actual demand.

So the fixed supply does not defend from bursting of this bubbles as Tether can collapse any day while USD will be just fine, what won't be fine is the Bitcoin price diving uncontrollably due to massive panic sales.

Most people on the forum would probably agree with these points, imo. At the same time they will be critical of the topic title, maybe this discussion should be a Tether topic in altcoins? 
jr. member
Activity: 28
Merit: 37
...
Bitcoin is an asset
People value it for its fixed supply among other benefits
So that's proof that it matters.
...

Surely it seems very attractive after being a part of FIAT system, but my point was that it can be abused indirectly with artificial price growth and financial bubbles we all know from FIAT world.

Significant part of current price is due to Tether printer and not actual demand.

So the fixed supply does not defend from bursting of this bubbles as Tether can collapse any day while USD will be just fine, what won't be fine is the Bitcoin price diving uncontrollably due to massive panic sales.
full member
Activity: 308
Merit: 143
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
It does to certain extent. It increase the value of a product in the minds of humans.
Besides Fiat would continue falling in value and has fallen by more than 95% since the 19's
And anything or most goods or service not Fiat would increase in value in relation.
About tether,  I have no idea how something that came up around 2014 can influence Bitcoin of 2009 not withholding it has been rising before the advent of tether.
Bitcoin price is not really been inflated. It's kinda relative. let's take two runners A and B both running at 30Km/h and A speeds starts declining to say 24Km/h while the B moves
to 31Km/h doesn't mean the speed of the B has increased by 7Km/h
It just shows the other speed has fallen. This is similar to Bitcoin/other goods or service and Fiat.
While it falls overtime the others are barely affected or even increase bit the fall of Fiat makes the increase seem pronounced.
Bitcoin is an asset
People value it for its fixed supply among other benefits
So that's proof that it matters.
Customers desires plays a role in the price of any goods.
newbie
Activity: 8
Merit: 1
When the Tether scam finally crashes and burns the BTC ecosystem will be set free from a huge pending crisis. Obviously, the supply of Bitcoin is not being inflated. Fixed supply does matter, whether you believe it or not.

If fixed supply can be infinitely inflated (when it comes to price) and thus creating a bubble that can burst, it is not being different from supply that is not fixed.

Example, current Bitcoin price inflated by Tether printer with no real backing.

https://i.imgflip.com/8ppmmm.jpg
Fixed supply of BTC doesn't matter, when the price can be infinitely inflated by Tether printer.
legendary
Activity: 2296
Merit: 1335
Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody
Yes, the supply as a number is not inflated, the price is inflated.

The price is not inflated but based on normal supply and demand, change my mind Cool
I'd even argue that the price is being kept low by governments that do not allow the market to do its thing but go as far as to issue statements on what in their opinion bitcoin is and how much power it consumes.

Tether part is speculation and can burst at any second (and it usually does in crypto winter).

You seem to only see the part when tether is used to buy bitcoin, but not the other way round. During crashes a lot of bitcoin is being exchange for it and this puts things more or less in balance.
If it's so bad, why do people escape to it and not to USD? The answer is again the government and stupid tax laws that influence the market. Without these laws people wouldn't have to use Tether but could freely and with no limits turn bitcoin into fiat money.
sr. member
Activity: 1666
Merit: 292
Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!
Supply has never been a problem, it's just peoples like to make this issue important to the investment process.

I have an example of the value of a product, like a stone that exists on the planet we live on, is it infinite or not? The answer would be yes, but the material and monetary value of use is not really worth taking seriously, like the product is not labeled with a price, and if anyone can access it, the numb can't either. I don't think price matters. And the story of water is truly infinite in its cycle but it is necessary for us so it will receive a corresponding price.

Returning to the crypto market things like bitcoin, eth, doge, xrp,... are all tied to fiat value and we can convert them to facilitate life's needs, and the supply problem is only is the way some parties want to manipulate something to seek market share in the field.
newbie
Activity: 1
Merit: 0
BTC supply isn't inflated, wtf are u talkin' about?
reread yourself, you seem confused on the difference between price and supply.

Yes, the supply as a number is not inflated, the price is inflated.

Maybe government is letting Tether printer to run for so long so the bubble grows bigger and when they decide to shut it down, people will lose trust in anything that's not being issued by gov and their CBDC will flourish.
But that's off-topic and a conspiracy theory.

lmao... if it's off topic, why do you create... a topic?
just don't make threads for the sake of making threads, your op makes zero sense

"the supply as a number"Huh



if what you wanted to do was to convince us that USDT is not backed, create a thread about that.
don't mix everything just to make it look like you know what u're talking about

do better.
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 6382
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Fixed supply of BTC doesn't matter, when the price can be infinitely inflated by Tether printer.

There are 2 components of the price: the price to get Bitcoin via PoW and the speculation "add-on". Tether part is speculation and can burst at any second (and it usually does in crypto winter).
On the other hand, the fact that the supply is fixed comes with acknowledging that bitcoin is very scarce, hence inviting the ones smart enough to invest in it. And from there the price grows in a correct, organic manner.

However, you may not care about this, or maybe you just want to troll. And a famous quote pretty much applies here:

Quote
If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 507
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Fact is bitcoin price is greatly different from it supply limits, and you shouldn't make such presumption calculation that bitcoin price equal it real value when bitcoin can move both sides in price, bitcoin fixed supply means that no more than 21 million bitcoina will ever be in cyculatuon unlike fiat where government print money multiple times in a year without regards to the currency value.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 612
Do you think when Tether added more supply, people who own Tether will completely invest in Bitcoin? they can buy any coins they want and Bitcoin a lot pair, it's not only BTC/USDT. Actually Tether should be concerned because they're not completely backed with USD and the government will launch their own stable coin sooner or later.

It's true Bitcoin fixed supply doesn't really matter because what's the point to have fixed supply if there's no demand? that's why Bitcoin's value isn't only the fixed supply.
legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 4458
if bitcoins price only rose due to fiat money printing inflation

EG
if 2009 had fiat at $15trill and 2024 had fiat at $30trill .. and where 1btc was 1/21m
EG 2009
1btc was $714,285 in 2009 as being a max goal
EG 2024
1btc was $1,428,571 in 2024 as being a max goal

you would have a point

HOWEVER
bitcoin is not a peg of fiat
bitcoin has its own economics.. EG mining cost has a factor that give bitcoin a base wholesale value layer below market rate to support the market bottoms.
bitcoin has its own community of desire, needs, utility and usefulness separate from taxes, fines, labours, debt

the facts of POW, halvings and mining costs play into bitcoins value market and premium market prices.. more than the fiat pressures of fiat laws and fiat politics that play on fiat markets
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