Flip or Trade? What’s The Bigger Gamble? - page 10.

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Quote from: fingnome on September 28, 2023, 04:21:58 AM

You've got a point about the organized chaos of trading with all its analysis and learning. But let’s be real, are we just kidding ourselves thinking we have a leg up? In day trading, we’re up against the massive hedge funds armed with AI & ML and huge budgets, and quality of market data you can't imagine to have. It’s like bringing a spoon to a gunfight. Does our little analysis really stack up against their tech power? Feels like we need more than hope to stand a chance in this big league of trading. How do we even start to level this playing field, any ideas?

Some retail traders who know what they are doing in their trade also cash in on the big whales move if they analyze well on their daily trading. No matter the size of the capital, it is the risk drive of the trader that matters. However, the manipulation that could be going on within the financial houses and the big hedge middle traders can be the challenge in the volatility of the market. But trading is not about hope and it is not for everyone.

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Quote from: BitDane on September 27, 2023, 05:35:36 PM

Quote from: pawanjain on September 27, 2023, 11:46:39 AM

Quote from: fingnome on September 25, 2023, 03:43:05 AM

Lost in the whirlwind world of day trading? It often feels like a maze with big folks and their flashy tools, leaving us hoping for a stroke of luck. Imagine ditching the tricky charts for a simple, real coin flip, person vs person, with a fair 50/50 chance. No gimmicks, no house edge, just a clear, honest game.

What’s your take? Does day trading seem more of a gamble compared to a straight-up coin flip

Day tricking cannot be directly said as a gamble. There are people who do perform their analysis and set their targets.
It's more of a prediction game than a straight up gamble. The bigger gamble would definitely be trading.
There are lots of people involved in it and the amount accumulates in millions when trading.
As for the coin flip, I don't think a lot of people are doing that.

Not because there are lots of people day trading, it is a bigger gamble. I think to say when it is a bigger gamble is by simply looking at the mechanics and how the risk is mitigated. Besides gamble is related to risk. The bigger the risk, the bigger the gamble. So in day trading, as many of the replies stated, the risk can be mitigated and those who are expert on trading can even reduce this risk to the minimum. While in coin flip, no matter what the gambler do, he cannot reduce the risk nor increase the chance of losing. So between the two, it is the coin flip that is has the bigger risk so it can be said that it is the bigger gamble.

You have a fair point, and it's true that experienced traders can significantly mitigate risk. Let's look at it through the Rock Paper Scissors lens. In this game, players might identify patterns and make predictions, much like traders. In trading, risk can be lessened by setting stop losses, not using leverage, and making well-informed decisions based on both technical and fundamental analysis.

For instance, a trader can set a stop loss at a certain price level to ensure they do not lose more than they are willing to. This automatic order can indeed limit the loss, giving a safety net. Refraining from using leverage means not borrowing funds to trade, which can prevent debts and amplified losses. But even with these strategies in place, the unpredictability and risk inherent in the market, like in Rock Paper Scissors, remain. It’s a game of strategy and chance, each with its own set of uncertainties and excitement.

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Quote from: xSkylarx on September 28, 2023, 04:32:43 AM

Flipping a coin is based on luck 50% for heads and 50% for tails and you can't increase the chance of getting heads no matter what unless you cheat. Trading is the opposite you can increase your chance of winning when you learn and backtest your strategy.

Day trading has been widely used by traders mostly those who don't have time for scalping and I don't compare it to gambling because it is about skills. Unless you just trade by chance like flipping a coin and deciding to buy or sell, that would be gambling.

You're right that trading involves skill and strategy, unlike a pure game of chance like flipping a coin. But here’s a mind-boggler: over the last 20 years, less than 10% of U.S. actively managed funds have beaten the market. It gives a pause, doesn’t it? Even with all the strategies, analysis, and tools at their disposal, a significant majority still couldn't outperform the market.

Now, let’s pivot back to the Rock, Paper, Scissors analogy. Even in this fast-paced game, you can analyze previous data and make predictions, akin to trading. Yet, the unpredictability factor looms large, just as it does in trading. Whether you're engaged in a child's game or in the intricate world of trading, the unpredictability keeps you on your toes, always guessing, always strategizing, and always facing the possibility of loss despite the best-laid plans. The skill may set them apart, but the unpredictability ties them together in a paradoxical dance.

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Flipping a coin is based on luck 50% for heads and 50% for tails and you can't increase the chance of getting heads no matter what unless you cheat. Trading is the opposite you can increase your chance of winning when you learn and backtest your strategy.

Day trading has been widely used by traders mostly those who don't have time for scalping and I don't compare it to gambling because it is about skills. Unless you just trade by chance like flipping a coin and deciding to buy or sell, that would be gambling.

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Quote from: ethereumhunter on September 28, 2023, 03:49:05 AM

Quote from: Hirose UK on September 27, 2023, 09:54:29 PM

When you look at and evaluate rich traders it is quite impressive because of the various sophistications they have and also buying and selling with large amounts of money so that when you get a profit it will also seem like it easy to get rich from trading but apart from all that there are actually some risks happens is that when the tools they use experience problems they might also lose some money but actually something like this might be a challenge and adrenaline rush for rich traders.
There are many differences between rich traders and traders who have limited capital and each profit target will also be different but some traders get lucky by buying tokens that are very cheap but can increase the price many times over.

It is not surprising that rich people can buy in large quantities and get big profits too, because that is the result they get. But the risk will also be big, especially if they lose, but that will be okay for rich people because they still have money to place bets. The difference between rich and average traders lies in the capital they use to trade, which is also the same with rich and average gamblers. And each rich trader and average trader will also have their own risks so they have to look for ways to reduce those risks. But that doesn't mean the average trader can't get lucky to get big profits because if his luck comes, he can get big profits from buying tokens, which many traders, including rich traders, may still underestimate.

You're spot on. If it's all boiling down to luck, why not level the playing field a bit? Peer-to-peer gambling could be the way to go. It brings in the element of fun, luck, and that human touch, all rolled into one. It’s not about massive capitals or fancy trading tools, it’s about enjoyment and the thrill of chance, without the Wall Street chaos. Who knows, happiness might just be a friendly bet away!

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Quote from: slapper on September 27, 2023, 08:53:32 PM

I understand day trading's chaos and stress. It's a common emotion, I assure you. You're not alone in wishing for a system as straightforward as flipping a coin. Sometimes I want for that simplicity as well

Yet, I'll try to clear things up though. trading is not at all like flipping a coin. Day trading is complicated and volatile, but it lets you practise research, analysis, and expertise. And coin toss is absolutely based on luck. The knowledge in trading cannot be underestimated. Making wise, well-informed decisions requires analysing the charts, understanding market patterns, and assessing data. Unlike the complete randomness of a coin flip, there is a method to the madness of trading. Trading indeed requires learning, adapting, and strategy if you really want to win in this game

You've got a point about the organized chaos of trading with all its analysis and learning. But let’s be real, are we just kidding ourselves thinking we have a leg up? In day trading, we’re up against the massive hedge funds armed with AI & ML and huge budgets, and quality of market data you can't imagine to have. It’s like bringing a spoon to a gunfight. Does our little analysis really stack up against their tech power? Feels like we need more than hope to stand a chance in this big league of trading. How do we even start to level this playing field, any ideas?

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Quote from: Hirose UK on September 27, 2023, 09:54:29 PM

When you look at and evaluate rich traders it is quite impressive because of the various sophistications they have and also buying and selling with large amounts of money so that when you get a profit it will also seem like it easy to get rich from trading but apart from all that there are actually some risks happens is that when the tools they use experience problems they might also lose some money but actually something like this might be a challenge and adrenaline rush for rich traders.
There are many differences between rich traders and traders who have limited capital and each profit target will also be different but some traders get lucky by buying tokens that are very cheap but can increase the price many times over.

It is not surprising that rich people can buy in large quantities and get big profits too, because that is the result they get. But the risk will also be big, especially if they lose, but that will be okay for rich people because they still have money to place bets. The difference between rich and average traders lies in the capital they use to trade, which is also the same with rich and average gamblers. And each rich trader and average trader will also have their own risks so they have to look for ways to reduce those risks. But that doesn't mean the average trader can't get lucky to get big profits because if his luck comes, he can get big profits from buying tokens, which many traders, including rich traders, may still underestimate.

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Quote from: fingnome on September 25, 2023, 08:26:43 AM

Quote from: Hirose UK on September 25, 2023, 03:56:05 AM

Nowadays trading has been watched by quite a lot of people even big people with unlimited wealth take part in the trading industry to be able to make a number of profits and these rich people use several sophisticated tools to carry out every purchase and sale transaction thereby maximizing profits and minimizing losses.
Maybe this will affect us traders who have limited capital and want to make small profits because the price graph experiences more significant ups and downs and makes us often late in the buying or selling process.
But when it comes to trading and gambling there are actually many differences and disadvantages and advantages of each of these two activities.

In my opinion I would not consider daily trading to be like betting because in daily trading we can determine any time and take a more dominant profit depending on the target we have.
Obviously trading has a level of certainty that we can see and all profits depend on the amount of capital and what selling price we decide.

Big folks with big tools do make the trading world a rollercoaster! 🎢 But ain’t it fun to think that even with all their gadgets, they might just be flipping a fancy, digital coin? Trading or flipping, we're all dancing with luck and chance, just with different tune

When you look at and evaluate rich traders it is quite impressive because of the various sophistications they have and also buying and selling with large amounts of money so that when you get a profit it will also seem like it easy to get rich from trading but apart from all that there are actually some risks happens is that when the tools they use experience problems they might also lose some money but actually something like this might be a challenge and adrenaline rush for rich traders.
There are many differences between rich traders and traders who have limited capital and each profit target will also be different but some traders get lucky by buying tokens that are very cheap but can increase the price many times over.

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Quote from: fingnome on September 25, 2023, 03:43:05 AM

Lost in the whirlwind world of day trading? It often feels like a maze with big folks and their flashy tools, leaving us hoping for a stroke of luck. Imagine ditching the tricky charts for a simple, real coin flip, person vs person, with a fair 50/50 chance. No gimmicks, no house edge, just a clear, honest game.

What’s your take? Does day trading seem more of a gamble compared to a straight-up coin flip

I would say, in trading you need luck as we as skills. While trading you need to analyse the market, do certain readings, and make conclusions on where to trade and with which coin you will make profit. Now for gambling, or for specific coin flip game, you need only luck to win it. No analysis can change your luck. So you can call any event gambling, when it is a game of luck or chance. But if the event is a game of skill(like here trading), then definitely it cannot be counted as gambling. Hope you get it OP.

slapper

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I understand day trading's chaos and stress. It's a common emotion, I assure you. You're not alone in wishing for a system as straightforward as flipping a coin. Sometimes I want for that simplicity as well

Yet, I'll try to clear things up though. trading is not at all like flipping a coin. Day trading is complicated and volatile, but it lets you practise research, analysis, and expertise. And coin toss is absolutely based on luck. The knowledge in trading cannot be underestimated. Making wise, well-informed decisions requires analysing the charts, understanding market patterns, and assessing data. Unlike the complete randomness of a coin flip, there is a method to the madness of trading. Trading indeed requires learning, adapting, and strategy if you really want to win in this game

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I'd take a simple coin flip game, thank you.

As someone who has been playing casino games such as dice for years, I happened to take appreciation on the simplicity of this game and its possible rewards if luck is on your side. However, comparing it to day trading is like comparing apples to oranges - they are completely different things with risking something and getting rewarded as their only common denominator. In day trading, you will have lots of ways to mitigate losses, and you can alter the risks to be in your favor. Whereas in a coin flip, you can only hope that you win enough rounds to break even or to come out ahead.

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Quote from: fingnome on September 25, 2023, 03:43:05 AM

What’s your take? Does day trading seem more of a gamble compared to a straight-up coin flip

First, there is nothing like "more of a gamble"; gamble is gamble, and it is that risk that makes them different. I think a straight-up coin flip is more risky than day trading. My reason for this is that you do not need any knowledge for a straight-up coin flip hence it is always about luck. However, with trading, having knowledge about it increases your chance from 50/50 to maybe 60/20, 70/30, or even 80/20 for some people. This is also why I think that most people prefer day trading to others.

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Quote from: Hispo on September 27, 2023, 04:46:33 PM

Quote from: 2double0 on September 27, 2023, 12:59:33 PM

So it is lot better than a coin flip or any other gambling tasks done.

It depends whom you ask, actually.
There is a good reason why gamblers prefer to go with games which are fast-paced and quick to settle, like plinko, dices and even crash. Because most gamblers do not want to wait for days not even hours before getting a result on the wager, that is the biggest difference between one activity and the other one: the patience is supposed to be invested before getting results.

In terms of investment in general (not only gambling), it is obvious to anyone who has had a minimum time in the market, that the amount of time one is supposed to wait for results in inversely proportional to risk.

Quickest settlement, highest risk.

People never look upon the winning probability, but they want things to happen in the fast pace. If winning probability is much concerned the focus would be over sports betting. Here we need to have patience for hours to know the win/loss of the bet. Once a gambler had begun to experience the best of sports betting, automatically he'll switch from casino games to sports betting as the risk is low with better winning probability based on our knowledge related to the sports we've made the bet.

Shortest time to enjoy big winning seems to have the highest risk, whether it is gambling, investment, trading and with everything this is the reality. Here the luckiest will survive whereas the unluckiest will be suffering as the loss used to be big.

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Quote from: fingnome on September 25, 2023, 03:43:05 AM

Lost in the whirlwind world of day trading? It often feels like a maze with big folks and their flashy tools, leaving us hoping for a stroke of luck. Imagine ditching the tricky charts for a simple, real coin flip, person vs person, with a fair 50/50 chance. No gimmicks, no house edge, just a clear, honest game.

What’s your take? Does day trading seem more of a gamble compared to a straight-up coin flip

Been trading for 2 years and I think trading will only be a gamble if you won’t analyze the market. There are many factors to consider when trading; overall market behavior (bullish/bearish), major coins, news, and the token you are about to trade. Profit won’t honestly happen in an instant. If you are trading and still guessing your position then that would be the time you are just like flipping a coin and relying on your luck. Indeed there’s no assurance of profit just like in gambling but DCAs really work especially if it is something analyzed across many factors of this market. Some people are just taking it easy and just pushing their luck which is why trading seems gambling for them.

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Quote from: pawanjain on September 27, 2023, 11:46:39 AM

Quote from: fingnome on September 25, 2023, 03:43:05 AM

Lost in the whirlwind world of day trading? It often feels like a maze with big folks and their flashy tools, leaving us hoping for a stroke of luck. Imagine ditching the tricky charts for a simple, real coin flip, person vs person, with a fair 50/50 chance. No gimmicks, no house edge, just a clear, honest game.

What’s your take? Does day trading seem more of a gamble compared to a straight-up coin flip

Day tricking cannot be directly said as a gamble. There are people who do perform their analysis and set their targets.
It's more of a prediction game than a straight up gamble. The bigger gamble would definitely be trading.
There are lots of people involved in it and the amount accumulates in millions when trading.
As for the coin flip, I don't think a lot of people are doing that.

Not because there are lots of people day trading, it is a bigger gamble. I think to say when it is a bigger gamble is by simply looking at the mechanics and how the risk is mitigated. Besides gamble is related to risk. The bigger the risk, the bigger the gamble. So in day trading, as many of the replies stated, the risk can be mitigated and those who are expert on trading can even reduce this risk to the minimum. While in coin flip, no matter what the gambler do, he cannot reduce the risk nor increase the chance of losing. So between the two, it is the coin flip that is has the bigger risk so it can be said that it is the bigger gamble.

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Quote from: 2double0 on September 27, 2023, 12:59:33 PM

So it is lot better than a coin flip or any other gambling tasks done.

It depends whom you ask, actually.
There is a good reason why gamblers prefer to go with games which are fast-paced and quick to settle, like plinko, dices and even crash. Because most gamblers do not want to wait for days not even hours before getting a result on the wager, that is the biggest difference between one activity and the other one: the patience is supposed to be invested before getting results.

In terms of investment in general (not only gambling), it is obvious to anyone who has had a minimum time in the market, that the amount of time one is supposed to wait for results in inversely proportional to risk.

Quickest settlement, highest risk.

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Quote from: fingnome on September 25, 2023, 03:43:05 AM

Lost in the whirlwind world of day trading? It often feels like a maze with big folks and their flashy tools, leaving us hoping for a stroke of luck. Imagine ditching the tricky charts for a simple, real coin flip, person vs person, with a fair 50/50 chance. No gimmicks, no house edge, just a clear, honest game.

What’s your take? Does day trading seem more of a gamble compared to a straight-up coin flip

trading can be said gamble if you make decisions without any knowledge and understanding of financial market, you can increase your chance of winning a trade when you know what's going on in the market.
if the individual company is fake or a scam company and faking profits for years then suddenly a news came out of that. then your chances of winning that trade by shorting that company is high.
and in coin flip you have 50/50 chance of winning whatever you do, you cannot increase your chance of winning, in trading the emotions are controllable because it's a slow process of losing money,
and in gambling you cannot control emotions after facing 5 consecutive losses the emotions will take control of you. and you start to double down your bets.

2double0

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A straight up coin flip (person to person) will give immediate results and one end will lose everything in that bet. Day trading can be profitable or make us lose everything but still gives us the chance to close the trade and take partial loss instead of keeping it till it eats up the account. So it is lot better than a coin flip or any other gambling tasks done.

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The bigger question is, will there be a house edge on exchanges to take home the leverage, where as there is a bigger chances that the security of a trader taking on others one one-on-one is higher but gambling yes there is a possibility pf face to face-to-face battle such as football, wrestling and table tennis games that players may have a personal bets on them.
So there is a bigger difference between the two of them and there can't be any comparison since there possibilities differ.

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Quote from: uneng on September 27, 2023, 11:18:36 AM

Quote from: Hispo on September 25, 2023, 12:12:20 PM

Quote from: uneng on September 25, 2023, 12:07:15 PM

Quote from: fingnome on September 25, 2023, 03:43:05 AM

What’s your take? Does day trading seem more of a gamble compared to a straight-up coin flip

Yes, it's totally gambling. The market is unpredictable and everyone is repeating it all around the forum and internet, still they claim to be possible to turn daily trading into a solid activity for a living. For me it sounds extremely contradictory! If we can't say accurately if BTC will be cheaper or more expensive by the end of the day, how can we say statistics and analyzes make difference on daily trading's results? It's totally random...

Only long term trading works in crypto market, if you pick the right coins and have patience to wait for long periods of time.

I disagree, though.
Even if seems to be random at times, there are rules which the market is supposed to follow and that is the reason why people pay attention to metrics like volume, averages and try to identify patterns.

It is not a secret that the biggest players within a specific market have more power over it, to change the prices and even mess with the sentiment of other investors. On the other hand, in gambling no one is supposed to have influence over the result, it is supposed to be random.

In the market, the actions of some players can discontinue the randomness.

You could compare such trading statistics to statistics from teams and players in sports betting, which is also a form of gambling. Sports gamblers also claim results aren't random and that it's possible to make progress on long term. Daily trading seems similar to that or even more random than sports betting. After all, you have to be lucky to place the right order at the right time in crypto market, considering you are a small fish without influence on it, against whales who move prices upside and downside as they wish.

So then we can agree that if you are big enough of a player, then it does not have much to do with gambling and then there are ways to influence the market at ones will. Which would not happen in a casino.

Also, in my personal point of view, sports (specifically matches) can be as random or even more random that trading in the spot market. The rules of the market at first glance seem to be more rigid than the possibilities of outcome in a football match, for example.

Topic: Flip or Trade? What’s The Bigger Gamble? - page 10. (Read 1753 times)