Topic: For Theymos (Read 693 times)

Are you stupid ?
The whole system is against everyone.
Why? Because it can be abused.
Why am i making so much "hue" ? Because it is issue that everyone "cry" from.
Every single member can be abused, staff, moderator, and DT member also.
What do you mean with "Create your own terms" ? That's not thread about sales issues or anything like that, or you are somewhere else and posted by mistake ?
I don't care "Mods" are against me, you or anyone, they are just missing and not enough.
I don't need Theymos response, i need Theymos solution.
Why you talking from other people name ? And no one confirm that current trust system is good, so no one says i am wrong?
What kind of drugs do you take mate ?

Why are you making so much hue and cry  when "no one gives a fuck about". Create your own terms if the buyer agree then buyer will not be going with Steve feedback.


This is much more serious issue. It simply means "Mods" are against you . DT (community) is against you. Theymos is not responding to you.
You need to introspect ,so many people cannot be wrong at same time.

Seems like we want something unusual and scary.

1) Trust that's proof based and cannot be abused.
2) More moderatos that have free time to handle reports and such.
3) System that cannot be abused so everyone can do his own business without harm other people business

I can count to 101, but also i would like to add that not only me but most not native english speakers have something to say that's important, but seems like everyone here playing a "teacher".
We are happy with the low english skill level we have, because we don't need that language at daily basis.
In matter of fact, try to talk in english in Germany and lets see who will actually give a shit about you, or try to find a job as english speaker only in Germany.

We do really need official rules, or if we won't have one, at least we need to follow the unofficial rules.
It is sad to see trusted lender that offers loans for people who accept accounts as collateral being tagged after trying to sell the account which was given to him as collateral after the person just run away with his money and not turning them back.
And that's just example of how the account sales rule is abused by DT own judgement just because its not "ethical" but they don't care about the rule they break..

Edit:
Not in last place, trust score should be ONLY send based on successful trade or PROVEN scam.
Not because you think that person is scam, not because you think that person is not trustworthy, but IF YOU PROVE IT.
That's how 99,99% of all forums over the internet works.
And some of them exists way before bitcointalk without problem, and never had that drama problems bitcointalk has.
I don't know and never dealt with ognasty but its sad to see one of the most trusted people around abused by someone false and fake judgement.

I read this as "We don't ever want to have to be accountable for the moderation decisions we make, so we purposely keep the rules confusing and arbitrary so that no one can ever tell us we are wrong."

This is the ONLY reason not to have clear rules. If some one is abusing a technicality that is causing disruption, perhaps the rule should be changed. This does not prevent anyone from making judgement calls on this, it just means they would (GASP) have to explain their actions and be accountable for them if they did.

The ambiguity and confusion itself is what is causing a VAST amount of the conflict on this forum. Look into any legal system that uses ambiguously and selectively enforced rules and it is just a disaster, because this environment breeds disdain for "rule of law", because if some people don't have to follow the rules, why should you? Then if you are punished for what others are allowed to do then even more confusion about what is and is not allowed is created.

It is not "frustrating" to end up on "a little posse's bad side". These people not only can destroy years worth of work and investment of resources, but they have also been known to have serious effects on people's real lives. I think you personally may have been just more than a little bit sheltered from this. It is easy to say just walk away when it is not your reputation being burned to the ground. I could personally give you a demonstration in this and I think you know it, but that is not the kind of stuff I do. However there are plenty of those types around here. This rules are for thee and not for me shit is getting pretty old.

There were rules since the start of this forum, they were even on the sticky threads these rules aren't strictly imposed before. We see still how users got away with scams and with just too simple rule like plagarism aren't followed which is real crime by the way. Those default trust members helped impose these rules.

There are a couple of problems with this statement. First of all, using escrow costs money, so the 1% standard fee is going to eat into any potential profits.

Secondly, if someone is competing with others offering similar services and receives a negative rating for arbitrary reasons, they will lose business all else being equal. Potential customers will be wary of trading with you. Running a business will be difficult if not impossible.

If there is someone who trades here only occasionally, they cannot be reasonably expected to develop a good trust network, nor keep up with whose ratings are good and whose are bad. As such, people who only occasionally use the trust system will use DT even if they have been here for a long time.

1) DT is abused. Abused services/stuff should have no place here
2) Merit is trash but it will remain because its "new" trash.
3. Then we need "not busy" moderators obviously ? If they are busy, that's their own problem and no one judge them, that doesn't mean the community don't need moderators with more time ?
4) Unofficial rules are unofficial rules. Or i can think that my zimbabwe dollars are us dollars no matter they are not ? Still DT members taking care of the "un official" rules by their own judgement by tagging something allowed by that rules which is account sales.

Powers should have only Moderators, Admins and no one else.
Other members should only exchange positive/negative feedback in public not moderated thread as post and if its required they should provide valid arguments and proofs for their positive or negative feedback.
No one should be able to abuse someone feedback based on his own judgement and ethics.
Just because someone doesn't like "John" wants to charge "Paul" 30 cents for something that "Steve" do not agree, that doesn't mean "Steve" should ruin "John" reputation based on his own judgement which no one gives a fuck about ?
Why should every single member and all newbies agree with "Steve" decision?
Why everyone ignoring the fact that the people with "DT Powers" not only abusing the system but also lying ?
Not only the Pharmacist lying, but Lauda,Vod and 99% of the people with fake "powers".
We all can trace everyone words and they are not better than most people here.
They may be helpful but not better.

Also thanks for the moderator who deleting posts from my OWN thread for "off-topic" stuff ?
Then why you don't delete marlboroza or whatever his name is for off-topic ?
What an idiots

So your grievances are:

1) DT doesn't have rules and people abuse that
2) Merit is all owned by a handful of people
3) Lack of Moderators and only "unofficial" rules to go by.


I've never personally been a huge fan of DT or Merit, however it all does have its uses. First off, you make claims that DT has harmed more people than it helped, but what are you basing that off of? Are you basing that off of the 50 threads in meta where people are complaining about the DT system, versus the 0 you see about newbies who have avoided scams and are so grateful that they posted about it? How do you know that DT isn't helping people out?

I'm personally of the opinion that DT should be completely ignored by the time you've spent a year here and have formed your own opinions on who to trust. The fact that 5 year veterans here still care about it is a problem with the community, not the system itself. If you've done 50 BTC in trades, who cares if you get negative feedback for getting into a fight with some guy. If you are an honest trader, you are an honest trader, if you aren't trading then what does it matter anyway? If you get labeled as a scammer wrongfully before you have a business history built up, use escrow. Thats how things always were before DT, it shouldn't be any different now, just because theres a tool in place to help out newbies who don't know any better.

Merit and account rank are 100% absolutely nothing problems. Account ranks are a SMF default setting, and they probably got carried into this forum just because its customary for forums to have rank designations. With the exception of the post limitations on newbies that aren't all that hard to remove, what is the difference between a member and a legendary member? Is it negligibly more difficult to send 50 pms over the course of 30 minutes, yes, but besides that your account rank means nothing. If you want to point out signature advertisements, once again thats a community issue not a forum issue. Why are we fighting for brownie points one way or another, just carry on and discuss bitcoin, and your post will eventually be of some use to someone, who'll thank you with a merit.

Sometimes the moderation team gets swamped with reports. Sometimes its so tedious sifting through the people snitching on each other because they used the H E double hockeysticks word, that legitimate reports get buried. Report something for illegal content and its removed quickly. Report someone for slandering your good name, and it'll most likely be ignored, or take a while if its real spam that a moderator needs to read four pages of discussion to figure out if its spam or if there is any grounds to the claim.

The list of "unofficial" rules are in all sense of the word, the official rules. They are called that so people can't just try to bypass them on technicalities. If one of the unofficial rules was that you cannot use Satoshi's name in vain, people would say S@toshi, or use some code word or whatever. Under steadfast rules they might get away with that. Give the moderators some room to use real human reason, and they'll say, saying Satoshi and S@toshi are the same thing.

I get it, its probably frustrating to end up on a little posse's bad side. I see weird groups of people forming and it escalates. People like conflict, otherwise you'd just ignore them when the fighting started.


TLDR:

1) DT is only useful for newbies, otherwise ignore it.
2) Merit is also only necessary for newbies to lift PM and Post restrictions. No one cares if you are a full member or legendary member, and if you care about signature advertising, thats your problem, its not an official sanctioned feature of the forum.
3) Moderators are busy, stop reporting petty bullshit and snitching in retaliation someone says something you don't like, and report spam, illegal activity, things in wrong sections, etc if you actually want to help clean up the forum.
4) Unofficial rules are the official rules, think of them like that and you'll be fine.

If this was the case, he certainly should have stolen from others, right? There should be no argument against him having a warning to others trading with him. By your description he has a lot of trading experience.

Or are you saying it is not unusual to receive negative ratings for arbitrary reasons that have nothing to do with the chances of the person trying to scam others?

cryptohunter - I am a Merit Source. That’s a forum achievement of sorts. Any way I agree to stop derailing the thread. Apologies everybody.

The facts are facts.
The trust system is abused and not trustworthy.
Some DT members playing as "team" and abusing it by the way they want to.
Some DT members LYING not only with statements but with abusive trust score.
This trust score should not let someone look like a scammer if he's not.
A trust system should be trust system, not a personal revenge.

So to recap

1. no achievements
2. no examples of  original thought inspiring posts
3. still spamming the sig.
4. I am the idiot.

I have no consideration for the opinions of the corrupt nor the ass kisser of those that are corrupt that spam their sigs whilst lecturing others on crying about the inability not to spam their sigs.

You came here to this thread and started shouting insults at people. You simply don't like getting called on that.

Remove your sig then i can take you a little more seriously. Well as seriously as I can take anyone that has achieved zero and have zero examples of original thought inspiring contributions.

However I will try to stop derailing this thread by making it personal. You should consider doing the same before calling the OP a crying window licker for presenting facts and observable events.

Again another lost soul who posting just the same even after all the comments.
No one give a fuck what do you think and how you twist words moron.
I already said what i have to say.
I call every single scammer a scammer, no matter is it casino or not.
I do not count them as casinos, platforms, exchanges i count them as scammers, and as every single scammer they coming back for more.
If you are to retarded to understand what i am saying, that's your own problem.
If you want to twist words, that doesn't make it truth.
Fuck off, and if you don't have anything to say about the topic, again fuck off.

DT isn't perfect since the existing, not since his post.
In matter of fact, the only bad thing of DT is the existence of it.
We don't need DefaultTrust system.
We need vouch, feedback system that can and should be posted only proof based.
And posts like "Photos are not proof they can be photoshoped" is more than lame excuse, because every single person can see is this photo is actually manipulated or real.
Because if someone count "notepad" story as proof better than a detailed and connected scam report, is retard.
As i said before, we can watch and learn from many different forums how they handle the problem.
It is not something bad to learn from others and try to create something better, but it is bad to leave running a "trust" system that can be abused with single click.
There is million proofs about that, and i am one of it as receiver and sender.

Are you saying I'm not allowed to post? Just so you know, you're the one who summoned me.

Do you mind telling me why you drag me in? I haven't left you red trust, and I stand by the feedback I've left others. If someone doesn't approve, I encourage them to open a thread in Reputation, or post in LoyceV's reputation thread. I know cryptohunter doesn't like me, and that seems to be because I make decent posts. For some reason he really hates me doing that. Yes, it's true, 67.53% of my earned Merit was sent by the Top 200 Merit Receivers, and 60.23% of my Merit was earned on Meta. Even without those, I still gain more Merit than Activity.
I stand by my ratings, I try to make my red trust mean something, and I try to be very thorough when I leave it. So again: if you have anything against me, please back it up with more than just "because I post somewhere".

That's quite ironic coming from you, considering the feedback you've left.

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If you don't like DT, you can set your own trust list, which you haven't done yet. If enough users do that, DT loses power.

Theymos knows DT isn't perfect, but he wants to let it roll for a while and see where it ends up:

I hope you do continue to do business. I like to see people doing well for themselves.

The DT ratings are the only one’s that count though. The trust list you guys are trying to make is a joke. Not many of you have even 50 earned Merit’s so it’s unlikely any of you will ever have a voice on the forum.

I think you could make a lot of effort doing more productive things.

Who gives a shit about trust rating with these DT members ?

You want to see anyone is going to accept to make business with me ?
You think people don't see you are a sig spammer ?

Thule, your trust rating is a total mess. Think what you want, it won’t restore your account to any level of credibility.

11k posts.You are not a normal poster by far not.You are clearly a sig spammer

Never gonna happen? and who are you to say that?? are you afraid of something if we got official rules in this forum?
"a lot of the claimed abuse isn't actually abuse"
this is the most stupid thing you have ever said so far.

And here is the point where Satoshi would say stop.He created a decentralised system so noone would get abused and would be responsible for his own actions.
You made a clear 180 turn babysitting the people who are not demanding it and most important abusing a big part of the community which should be protected against abuse by decentralisation