Topic: For those who have no idea what to do (Read 4434 times)

Except I didn't.  Literally the only concrete advice given in the entire post is not not take extreme positions, e.g. 100% HODL or 100% sell.

Also, volatility was the indicator I put forth as a measure of systemic instability, not entropy.

Edit:  Since when did all the legendaries become the cheerleaders from Bring it On?

The OP starts out quite nicely and balanced. But then it goes on listing only arguments, some of them invalid, why you should get out ASAP.

If you are using entropy as a metaphor, you should also note that decreasing entropy does not mean that the system is getting in any way "better" and increasing entropy does not mean the opposite. If you start up a power plant, it's entropy certainly increases, but that is how you get it to generate electrical output.

Biased. Ignored.

To the joint.

I found your post helpful, very helpful and if more people held and applied your thoughts as regard to people's aid and guidance we probably would never have had a bitcoin system appear, we would have been enough for each other.

I don't like watching anyone here panic, or lose money.  It's not a good feeling.  I didn't think that interjecting the word "game" once would actually avert your attention onto that word and blow it up and forget about everything that came before it.  Half of your entire first response to this post fixated on that one word all by itself.  Sorry, I'll rephrase.  I don't still have stake in the "game," but I still have stake in "[insert other arbitrary label that's completely beside the point here]."


Here you go, Slick. Here's your entropy:


It's not misuse.  You made the complaint (that I'll get to in a second) that placing Bitcoin in an accurate context is irrelevant, and then you go and misplace entropy into a context irrelevant to this discussion.  Entropy as a term can be applied more broadly than what you think.


The title of the thread didn't give you any indication?    The title is, "For those who have no idea what to do."  My presumption is that there are people who have no idea what to do.


Where did you get the impression this was a counseling session?  Although, the OP can help you to deal with emotions by focusing less on what is unknown (which triggers the stressful emotions) and focusing on what is knowable (thereby hopefully alleviating some stress).


That's what dicks say.  Some people try very hard to understand and don't.


"...you had no moral authority to talk about Bitcoin failing as if..."

Lol WHAT?!  I don't even.  Who and where the...


You must be really having a bad day.

I held back on that post because I thought maybe you were just feeling sorry for someone and wanted to add a little advice. I just wanted to frame your post in the context that it isn't a win-lose game... mostly because I admit to being a firm believer in Bitcoin. Now I just need to clarify why I felt it was in remiss.

You made good points about history, but then you talked about systemic death and entropy. Misuse of the term entropy is a pet peeve of mine. It's worse than quantum. There's no need to argue about them here.

But I am completely at a loss why you felt you needed to post this in the first place. What was your presumption? Emotions aren't something people need to be talked through by posting, they are what people need to learn to deal with. If people are simply speculating without any understanding, then they deserve no advice at all, nor would they want any. Better advice would have been to go talk to someone IRL, not try to feel some sense of "internally and externally consistent context" that Bitcoin is somehow part of some machine and that sometimes machine parts fail. I don't see it that way at all. Forgive me for saying this but you had no moral authority to talk about Bitcoin failing as if you understood the emergent complexities of OPEN SOURCE systems. There are no books on this yet. They are being written as this technology and philosophy unfolds.

Besides, the post ended up being a rallying post for Bitcoin bashers that agreed with you without even understanding what you were talking about.

Trolls get celebrity level attention, actually useful posts are ridiculed. Time for a break from this board.

Likewise


That's why I clearly stated that the OP wasn't exhaustive or even comprehensive in its scope.  But I'm genuinely curious which points you're referring to and how they impact affect what I'm saying.


Oh give me a break. Thanks for just ignoring everything except the last line in the OP which I reluctantly posted to be transparent as possible.  The mere inclusion of that last line unquestionably removes bias from the OP.


You think?!  Thanks, Captain Obvious.  Dude, Systems Theory isn't supposed to lead to speculation no matter what discipline it's applied to.  For example, systems theory as applied to psychology doesn't outline treatment or a course of action, but rather it helps you understand the psychology of a person or group in a context that can be consistently applied again and again.  All your reply shows is that you don't understand the theory or what it's intended for.  I even flatly stated that the OP is extremely general as it uses a theory which can be, and routinely is, applied to literally dozens of various disciplines.  In other words, I never even tried to speculate.


Now you're just going overboard.  The post is supposed to help people who are struggling to grasp the context of the situation due to intense emotions and/or a host of other factors.  The point is to set Bitcoin into a context that is internally and externally consistent throughout.  I'm not going to do your speculating for you or anyone else, but since I have significant experience with modeling these types of things, I thought this was another way I could contribute.

The first thing you have to understand how practical it will be for the average user to just turn up their computer or even dumb terminal, logging in, and then using it. That's it.
It will be a transparent experience for the average and not so average Joe. There is practically no learning curve.

Do you know why dropbox was such a success?
For exactly the same reason.
MaidSafe will be even greater in its practicality, and besides that, you can generate money by using it. Do you need a bigger incentive than that?

All investments have risks, but this one is a no brainer.
High risk and high return is a given. But when the potential is to grow 10,000% or greater, you can invest just 1000 dollars and wait to see what happens.

The overly ambitious plan is a risk because it may never come out to light. But such risk is being minimized every time they demonstrate they are actually progressing toward their goal posts. The only reason I came out now supporting MaidSafe is because they finished TestNet1 and now they are progressing towards TestNet2.
It stopped being vaporware long time ago.

And again, none of the networks you mention is a direct competitor of MaidSafe. Have you even tried using Freenet? Or I2P? Do you really understand how it works and what is their scope and vision? Just because they use the words "decentralized" and "network", doesn't mean it is the same.

Also, you will have to be much more rational in your assessment, one thing is the technology, another thing is their IPO. If you can't separate both, you are the one at risk.

You are still not empathizing with the average potential user. When they consider : Where to store their files, how to encrypt their communications, how to lease their unused bandwidth , how to lease their unused hard drive space, how and where to host their websites, which CDN to use, ect.... They have many solutions with advantages and disadvantages to pick from. This is competition for maidsafe.

An external hard drive is competition for cloud storage like Dropbox despite them being very different products with different features.

Maidsafe may become a raging success, but to think that it  doesn't have competition is just delusional. I'm apologize for being a bit rude, but am frankly quite shocked that you would even dare making such claims.



But you are encouraging users to invest in maidsafecoins as a fail safe if bitcoin fails? Do you normally suggest users backup a risky investment with an extremely risky one?

P.S...   I admit, I am very slightly biased against maidsafe because their botched IPO, that just like Nxt, will continue to haunt the project. Which is a shame because I followed and liked David's ideas beforehand.

Ah ok, it makes sense to sell and take your profits around $600-$850 if you got in at 2011.


I was just trying to see your perspective. If you got in after Nov 2013 and sold at a loss, then that would probably mean you're not confident in this system healing itself or having another phase where the input far exceeds the output. Which is what most of us holders are hoping for, but like you said it's a gamble.

Now we are talking about a different problem.
You were comparing it with Storj, which is a non issue.
So be careful pointing your finger to me as a brainwashed guy when I was only pointing out that your comparisons were ridiculously irrelevant.

I am aware of the risks, and that is another whole different issue, but competition is not one of them.
The overly ambitious aspect of it makes it extremely risky, and that's about it. Because if the execution of his vision is flawless, then there won't be a real competitor out there. None.

The other projects you mentioned are absolutely irrelevant. And the fact you mentioned them it is clear you don't really fully understand how it will be implemented...

Yes, I understand the ambitious scope of David's project and even read many of the whitepapers.
Your perspective is from a brainwashed IPO investor regurgitating marketing and mine is someone with no vested stakes in either project.

I understand that Maidsafe is trying to accomplish more and will offer more features and products. I'm not quibbling about the differences, but just suggesting
you have to also understand Maidsafe from a consumer point of reference and how it differentiates from dropbox/google drive/ect.. which is free for most users,
or how it differentiates from Storj , or how it differentiates from Freenet/Netsukuku/GNUnet/Cjdns/I2P/ect... open source protocols. These are all very old ideas , and
executing them with the right incentives is the tricky part. Maidsafe may be too ambitious and to closed to really take over the ecosystem; history will show.

Ignoring your competition because you are blinded by your own investment is dangerous.

You keep mentioning storage.
You do realize that MaidSafe is not about storage at all. It is about a network, reinventing the internet as we know it. The storage in MaidSafe is just an extra feature.
It is like comparing a hard drive vs. a whole freaking laptop with an internet connection. Is really the hard drive market threatening the laptop? Does that really sound competing to you?

Going back to MaidSafe, tell me one another one project that is serverless, secure, redundant, decentralized and yet blockchain-less. Again, blockchainless. Think a minute about the significance of that.
If you find such system, you found your competitor.

And, yes, centralized servers are not the same as a serverless system.
Did you really care to see what MaidSafe is really about?

This is turning into a pointless discussion. If you still don't understand why it really doesn't have a serious competition, especially in the cryptoworld.

Only IBM can somewhat threaten MaidSafe if they move forward with their proprietary systems (Adept project).
And yet even if they move forward with that, MaidSafe will remain non-profit and open, and their market target is different from IBM's.

Ahh, I see..... and other cloud storage providers aren't competitors with either storj or maidsafe because they are centralized and not properly secure, right?

What a great way to focus on competition, just ignore any products that don't match every technical detail without understanding the potential end users needs.

Hopefully, the maidesafe team doesn't think the same way you do , because if so, the whole project is doomed.

If you are thinking they are providing the same products you clearly have no idea of their differences.

Omg is that the reach of your researching skills?
1st) MasterCoin has nothing to do with MaidSafe. Nothing.
This demonstrates that you don't even understand what mastercoin is.
Mastercoin was used for the crowdfunding, and it holds tokens until the Safe network goes live.
Then MaidSafeCoins will be converted into SafeCoins in its own network.

2nd) They are designing new network protocols to make this work. Patents have a bad name because of patent trolls. But it is a necessary step to protect legitimate intellectual property, and yet to be open about its functionality.

I understand the distinctions, but not acknowledging competitors when they both provide the same product is just being naive or and act of pure hubris.

The most you could suggest is that Storj merely competes with maidsafe with one of its principle future products, instead of this false statement:

Around 1000.  I also advised my friend against 650 or whatever the price when SR auction.

People usually ask me around super bullish times

Not even close.
MaidSafe is a whole internet decentralized. It destroys the client-server model.
Storj it is only about storage, blockchain based, eventually it could end up being an app inside MaidSafe.
Also, MaidSafe solved the bizantine generals problem without the need of a blockchain.

So MaidSafe is not leveraging on bitcoin, it is on its own category by itself.
Also, MaidSafe have been in the works since before bitcoins.

twiifm, when exactly did you convince your old man to not buy some bitcoins?