Topic: FPGA development board "Icarus" - DisContinued/ important announcement - page 12. (Read 207285 times)
March 17, 2012, 07:44:34 AM
Multiple Icarus boards inside AeroCooler Xpredator case
March 17, 2012, 07:34:30 AM
Icarus inside Xpredator case
March 17, 2012, 05:21:07 AM
Just wanted to mention - I found out yesterday that my country (Romania) has a no customs tax policy regarding electronics from China. This is actually good news. You still have to pay 24% VAT though on anything over ~40 Euros of value, but still...
Now, I had a couple of questions regarding the adapters. Do I really need the 12V 3.3 Amp adapter? Or does the smaller one do an equally good job? In the original post Zhang mentions the larger adapter is better "for the future" - why is that, will a future bitstream generate a larger energy consumption?
Now, I had a couple of questions regarding the adapters. Do I really need the 12V 3.3 Amp adapter? Or does the smaller one do an equally good job? In the original post Zhang mentions the larger adapter is better "for the future" - why is that, will a future bitstream generate a larger energy consumption?
hi,
i just close the order of the 3.33A adapter.
because we found that next bitsteam will reduce the power consume, a 12V/2A (means 24W) is enough.
March 17, 2012, 03:37:07 AM
i know, next product will have heat-sink install holes.
the heat-sink now is installed by a 3M thermal transfer tape. DO NOT REMOVE the standard heat-sink unless you have got the same tapes. they are one time use.
and IMHO, change the heat-sink is absolute useless, the standard heat-sink is really cool during the operation.
the heat-sink now is installed by a 3M thermal transfer tape. DO NOT REMOVE the standard heat-sink unless you have got the same tapes. they are one time use.
and IMHO, change the heat-sink is absolute useless, the standard heat-sink is really cool during the operation.
Good to hear.
BTW The Seven, I know this is totally off topic but are you the same guy who used to (perhaps still?) work with hacking the iPod nano? I built a machine to help you once but had to quit rather abruptly unfortunately. Ahh, the memories...
March 17, 2012, 03:35:11 AM
Just wanted to mention - I found out yesterday that my country (Romania) has a no customs tax policy regarding electronics from China. This is actually good news. You still have to pay 24% VAT though on anything over ~40 Euros of value, but still...
Now, I had a couple of questions regarding the adapters. Do I really need the 12V 3.3 Amp adapter? Or does the smaller one do an equally good job? In the original post Zhang mentions the larger adapter is better "for the future" - why is that, will a future bitstream generate a larger energy consumption?
Now, I had a couple of questions regarding the adapters. Do I really need the 12V 3.3 Amp adapter? Or does the smaller one do an equally good job? In the original post Zhang mentions the larger adapter is better "for the future" - why is that, will a future bitstream generate a larger energy consumption?
March 16, 2012, 03:05:55 PM
Ok, I guess I have to decide quickly then 
Another thing. I think the heat sinks look tiny and suspect I would like to change them into something bigger, but I cannot see any holes for attaching a heat sink to the board like the ztx has. Do you just use pads? If that is the case I suggest making holes in your next design.
Another thing. I think the heat sinks look tiny and suspect I would like to change them into something bigger, but I cannot see any holes for attaching a heat sink to the board like the ztx has. Do you just use pads? If that is the case I suggest making holes in your next design.
i know, next product will have heat-sink install holes.
the heat-sink now is installed by a 3M thermal transfer tape. DO NOT REMOVE the standard heat-sink unless you have got the same tapes. they are one time use.
and IMHO, change the heat-sink is absolute useless, the standard heat-sink is really cool during the operation.
March 16, 2012, 11:24:40 AM
Another thing. I think the heat sinks look tiny and suspect I would like to change them into something bigger, but I cannot see any holes for attaching a heat sink to the board like the ztx has. Do you just use pads? If that is the case I suggest making holes in your next design.
There are also snap-on heatsinks, which attach directly to the FPGA package (they have tiny plastic hooks that slide in between the board and FPGA package), like this one: http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/ATS-50450P-C2-R0/ATS1047-ND/1284761 (just to show the concept, I know this particular one wouldn't fit).
I am using a similar one for my current Virtex5 FPGA development board, and it's mining fine (but not fanless).
March 16, 2012, 11:16:04 AM
Ok, I guess I have to decide quickly then
Another thing. I think the heat sinks look tiny and suspect I would like to change them into something bigger, but I cannot see any holes for attaching a heat sink to the board like the ztx has. Do you just use pads? If that is the case I suggest making holes in your next design.
Another thing. I think the heat sinks look tiny and suspect I would like to change them into something bigger, but I cannot see any holes for attaching a heat sink to the board like the ztx has. Do you just use pads? If that is the case I suggest making holes in your next design.
i know, next product will have heat-sink install holes.
the heat-sink now is installed by a 3M thermal transfer tape. DO NOT REMOVE the standard heat-sink unless you have got the same tapes. they are one time use.
and IMHO, change the heat-sink is absolute useless, the standard heat-sink is really cool during the operation.
March 16, 2012, 10:38:26 AM
Ok, I guess I have to decide quickly then
Another thing. I think the heat sinks look tiny and suspect I would like to change them into something bigger, but I cannot see any holes for attaching a heat sink to the board like the ztx has. Do you just use pads? If that is the case I suggest making holes in your next design.
Another thing. I think the heat sinks look tiny and suspect I would like to change them into something bigger, but I cannot see any holes for attaching a heat sink to the board like the ztx has. Do you just use pads? If that is the case I suggest making holes in your next design.
March 16, 2012, 09:44:52 AM
Hey ngzhang, if I were to order a few of these boards, how long would I have to wait? Would I have to wait for the next batch or do you take orders right away?
now i'm trying to finish batch3, if there are some boards left, i will put them on stock. this will be proceed in 1 week .
March 16, 2012, 08:27:23 AM
Hey ngzhang, if I were to order a few of these boards, how long would I have to wait? Would I have to wait for the next batch or do you take orders right away?
March 16, 2012, 06:32:15 AM
...
the PL2303 is a good chip, but bad driver, at least under windows. so next product will change to FTDI UART chips. (3 times cost
)
Oh well then use linux - problem solved the PL2303 is a good chip, but bad driver, at least under windows. so next product will change to FTDI UART chips. (3 times cost
)13 days running (with only a few short outages) and still no problems (even survived a blackout and restart)
Also with cgminer - still zero hardware errors.
March 16, 2012, 05:46:38 AM
While having both of you guys (fizzisist and ngzhang) here talking about the FPGA chip, let me ask you something.
I noticed that ZTEX is the only one using the CSG484 package while both your devices use another one ( FGG484). I understand that this is due to availability in ngzhang's market in his case at least, but does it also make a difference for cooling and mounting the heat sink? They are all plastic if I am not wrong, aren't they?
I noticed that ZTEX is the only one using the CSG484 package while both your devices use another one ( FGG484). I understand that this is due to availability in ngzhang's market in his case at least, but does it also make a difference for cooling and mounting the heat sink? They are all plastic if I am not wrong, aren't they?
March 16, 2012, 04:32:48 AM
...
i will add a temperature sensor on the next design, but IMHO, it's useless.
because it can't be installed inside the FPGA package, and the temperature read out is just a board temp. the response time is not quick enough for protection purpose.
board interconnect can be done now, only need a bitsteam modify. this feature is still under development.
The temperature sensor would not be for the sake of a microsecond shut down - but more for noting a trend to reduce the work to help reduce the temperature.i will add a temperature sensor on the next design, but IMHO, it's useless.
because it can't be installed inside the FPGA package, and the temperature read out is just a board temp. the response time is not quick enough for protection purpose.
board interconnect can be done now, only need a bitsteam modify. this feature is still under development.
I don't run my GPU cards near the limits - I set them below those limits to promote a longer life
There is, however, a rather simple need for it: if the fan should fail, you would see a temperature rise and possibly have the software notice this and reduce the amount of work or even stop it from processing.
It may not be fast enough - but I guess only experimentation would tell?
Different subject ...
Actually one thing I've not asked or found written anywhere yet: is it possible to upload a new bitsteam using USB?
Or do you need the extra developer hardware to do that?
the speed adjust feature should build in the bitsteam it self. the FPGA will automatically sample its temperature (with out a independent sensor device, just "it self" ) and rise and down the operation speed continuously.
why need to read the temperature, calculate, then adjust by sending a command from PC?
...
Just like cgminer now does with GPU cards - you can decide on the temperature limit - the GPU cards themselves also have an internal shutdown - but few if anyone lets the cards go that high.
If there is only hardware control and no software control, then ALL boards would have to work exactly the same and have exactly the same limitations - and the hardware control would have to always be correct.
Just like my comments about being able to adjust the MHz of the board, in that case I'd have it err on the side of safety - others may prefer to risk and gain a little more performance.
I want my hardware to last a long time - so I'll prefer to have it run a little lower than some who may prefer to gain that extra performance.
I really hate to butt into this thread, but I wanted to point out that the new X6500 has all of these features you're asking about.
The temp sensors are definitely useful, if only to see exactly the effect of different cooling arrangements or clock frequency. Of course, it takes some time to respond, but typically less than a minute. ngzhang, what exactly makes you think that isn't fast enough? I'm planning to do a fan failure test this weekend, and see how well the temp sensor responds. Maybe even take a heatsink off entirely and see what happens. I get the sense that it's going to be hard to actually kill an FPGA, even trying my hardest. We'll see, though!
We have new firmware that allows you to set the clock to any frequency you like, in 2 MHz increments. Unfortunately, we're still fighting with Xilinx ISE to get it to meet timing at frequencies higher than around 190 MHz. Still, the ability to automatically adjust the clock to whatever frequency best suits your setup is really fun to play around with. MPBM will also automatically reduce the clock if either the invalid nonce rate or the temperature sensors exceed some threshold. You can set these thresholds yourself (and I'd guess that you'd prefer setting those thresholds a little lower than some people).
Finally, you can upload the bitstream over USB, without any special hardware. The software will do this for you automatically whenever you power up the board the first time.
Sorry again for the thread hijack!!
hummm. it's fine. so i have chance to do a deeper analyses.
the core problem is the on board temperature sensor can not measure the FPGA's core temperature (Tj). due to the bad plastic package, it's impossible to accurate measurement it (from the outside).
we already find a way to sample this parameter (Tj) by a special method in a few nanoseconds, and adjust the frequency continuously by the TJ, not 2MHz step or some other value.
a tip for you is: we all using ZTEX's verilog code, this full pipe-lined architecture is pretty fast, but the power consumption is also high. i find that even icarus us a 6 layers PCB with 4 planes plus heatsink and fan, it's really hard to control the Tj under 105C when the frequency over 200MHz, far above. under this situation, generate invalid shares is not a big problem, but the "Electron Drift" effect will kill the chip in a few months. that's why i have a 200Mhz bitsteam months ago, but our volume products still using the 190MHz one. even though icarus is a no warranty product as yours.
about the config interface, you know icarus is a common use development board. i must follow some established rules in this field. but our next product will also add a MCU friendly config port.
March 16, 2012, 04:16:12 AM
@reedlaw
Sorry. by more test. without powered usb-hub the serial(Icarus) is quiet un-stable under 703N. so you better use a pwoered usb-hub.
BTW: I create a new image today:
http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/icarus/openwrt-ar71xx-generic-trunk-30834/
you can run cgminer by:
cgminer -q -T --api-network --api-listen -S /dev/ttyUSB0 -o http://POOL -O U:P > /dev/null 2>&1 &
we don't have much space to save the log.
Xiangfu
Sorry. by more test. without powered usb-hub the serial(Icarus) is quiet un-stable under 703N. so you better use a pwoered usb-hub.
BTW: I create a new image today:
http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/icarus/openwrt-ar71xx-generic-trunk-30834/
you can run cgminer by:
cgminer -q -T --api-network --api-listen -S /dev/ttyUSB0 -o http://POOL -O U:P > /dev/null 2>&1 &
we don't have much space to save the log.
Xiangfu
@xiangfu I am wondering about using multiple Icaruses with a TP-LINK TL-WR703N host. What kind of USB hub should I use? Does it need to be powered, or will any cheap one do?
i think it's no matter with powered or unpowered. i test two kind of them, all working well. they are:
http://www.360buy.com/product/511117.html
http://www.360buy.com/product/152976.html
but i also found that some of the port are not very stable. change the port will increase the stability. and disable the UART FIFO also obviously increase stability.
the PL2303 is a good chip, but bad driver, at least under windows. so next product will change to FTDI UART chips. (3 times cost
) 
March 16, 2012, 03:39:15 AM
...
i will add a temperature sensor on the next design, but IMHO, it's useless.
because it can't be installed inside the FPGA package, and the temperature read out is just a board temp. the response time is not quick enough for protection purpose.
board interconnect can be done now, only need a bitsteam modify. this feature is still under development.
The temperature sensor would not be for the sake of a microsecond shut down - but more for noting a trend to reduce the work to help reduce the temperature.i will add a temperature sensor on the next design, but IMHO, it's useless.
because it can't be installed inside the FPGA package, and the temperature read out is just a board temp. the response time is not quick enough for protection purpose.
board interconnect can be done now, only need a bitsteam modify. this feature is still under development.
I don't run my GPU cards near the limits - I set them below those limits to promote a longer life
There is, however, a rather simple need for it: if the fan should fail, you would see a temperature rise and possibly have the software notice this and reduce the amount of work or even stop it from processing.
It may not be fast enough - but I guess only experimentation would tell?
Different subject ...
Actually one thing I've not asked or found written anywhere yet: is it possible to upload a new bitsteam using USB?
Or do you need the extra developer hardware to do that?
the speed adjust feature should build in the bitsteam it self. the FPGA will automatically sample its temperature (with out a independent sensor device, just "it self" ) and rise and down the operation speed continuously.
why need to read the temperature, calculate, then adjust by sending a command from PC?
...
Just like cgminer now does with GPU cards - you can decide on the temperature limit - the GPU cards themselves also have an internal shutdown - but few if anyone lets the cards go that high.
If there is only hardware control and no software control, then ALL boards would have to work exactly the same and have exactly the same limitations - and the hardware control would have to always be correct.
Just like my comments about being able to adjust the MHz of the board, in that case I'd have it err on the side of safety - others may prefer to risk and gain a little more performance.
I want my hardware to last a long time - so I'll prefer to have it run a little lower than some who may prefer to gain that extra performance.
I really hate to butt into this thread, but I wanted to point out that the new X6500 has all of these features you're asking about.
The temp sensors are definitely useful, if only to see exactly the effect of different cooling arrangements or clock frequency. Of course, it takes some time to respond, but typically less than a minute. ngzhang, what exactly makes you think that isn't fast enough? I'm planning to do a fan failure test this weekend, and see how well the temp sensor responds. Maybe even take a heatsink off entirely and see what happens. I get the sense that it's going to be hard to actually kill an FPGA, even trying my hardest. We'll see, though!
We have new firmware that allows you to set the clock to any frequency you like, in 2 MHz increments. Unfortunately, we're still fighting with Xilinx ISE to get it to meet timing at frequencies higher than around 190 MHz. Still, the ability to automatically adjust the clock to whatever frequency best suits your setup is really fun to play around with. MPBM will also automatically reduce the clock if either the invalid nonce rate or the temperature sensors exceed some threshold. You can set these thresholds yourself (and I'd guess that you'd prefer setting those thresholds a little lower than some people).
Finally, you can upload the bitstream over USB, without any special hardware. The software will do this for you automatically whenever you power up the board the first time.
Sorry again for the thread hijack!!
March 16, 2012, 02:54:23 AM
@reedlaw
Sorry. by more test. without powered usb-hub the serial(Icarus) is quiet un-stable under 703N. so you better use a pwoered usb-hub.
BTW: I create a new image today:
http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/icarus/openwrt-ar71xx-generic-trunk-30834/
you can run cgminer by:
cgminer -q -T --api-network --api-listen -S /dev/ttyUSB0 -o http://POOL -O U:P > /dev/null 2>&1 &
we don't have much space to save the log.
Xiangfu
Sorry. by more test. without powered usb-hub the serial(Icarus) is quiet un-stable under 703N. so you better use a pwoered usb-hub.
BTW: I create a new image today:
http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/icarus/openwrt-ar71xx-generic-trunk-30834/
you can run cgminer by:
cgminer -q -T --api-network --api-listen -S /dev/ttyUSB0 -o http://POOL -O U:P > /dev/null 2>&1 &
we don't have much space to save the log.
Xiangfu
@xiangfu I am wondering about using multiple Icaruses with a TP-LINK TL-WR703N host. What kind of USB hub should I use? Does it need to be powered, or will any cheap one do?
March 16, 2012, 01:30:02 AM
Is anyone else having this kind of a problem getting CGMiner to detect Icarus?
img deleted
img deleted
It is possible Prolific driver problem. Try to change COM port number in advanced settings or install latest Prolific USB-Serial driver.
I have similar issues, the board was detected but communication hangs once per hour or so.
March 15, 2012, 09:59:01 PM
Did Canada charge anything extra?
Nope, not a penny 
March 15, 2012, 09:44:53 PM
I'm using the one from the cgminer thread. I'm adding to the current bounty in this thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/windows-7-cgminer-build-for-icarus-and-bfl-75-btc-bounty-68956
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/windows-7-cgminer-build-for-icarus-and-bfl-75-btc-bounty-68956
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