FPGA miner for altcoin - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Iamtutut

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Quote from: _oh_no_stop_this_ on June 23, 2018, 03:20:25 PM

Quote from: Iamtutut on June 23, 2018, 03:12:24 PM

ETASH requires an awfull lot of memory and is quite a power hungry algo, so an expensive FPGA with a 225W power limit is not the best fit at all.

My idea was to get cheaper and little older hardware and build a cheap miner. Tasks can be divided between several chips...
Yes, that will consume more power, but I think if we make calculations based on what industrial miners are paying (up to 5 cents per kwh), then there may be a niche for such product.

There's a project, the idea is to lower the keccak burden on the GPU.
Thread here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.39871063

_oh_no_stop_this_

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Quote from: Iamtutut on June 23, 2018, 03:12:24 PM

ETASH requires an awfull lot of memory and is quite a power hungry algo, so an expensive FPGA with a 225W power limit is not the best fit at all.

My idea was to get cheaper and little older hardware and build a cheap miner. Tasks can be divided between several chips...
Yes, that will consume more power, but I think if we make calculations based on what industrial miners are paying (up to 5 cents per kwh), then there may be a niche for such product.

Iamtutut

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Activity: 1120

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ETASH requires an awfull lot of memory and is quite a power hungry algo, so an expensive FPGA with a 225W power limit is not the best fit at all.

_oh_no_stop_this_

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Quote from: R0land on June 23, 2018, 11:32:33 AM

Try cryptonight v1 (monero) ... it´s possible. Grin

Thank you for suggestion. And why choose that over ethash? Easier/cheaper to do?

R0land

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Quote from: _oh_no_stop_this_ on June 23, 2018, 04:44:11 AM

Quote from: R0land on June 22, 2018, 05:30:27 PM

Little SOCs like the Tegra X1, are all memory bandwidth limited, so you can never get optimal use out of all the cores at once. You get out only 30 h/s cryptonight (I don´t know the ethash speed).
FPGA´s are better, if you have the right environment.

Thank you!
Which algorithm would you target first with FPGA-based miner?
It can surely be ethash and such.

Try cryptonight v1 (monero) ... it´s possible. Grin

mintminty590

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I was interested in this subject , coming from a hardware side of engineering and not software I did want to learn how to write bitstreams for these as I have a few developer boards lying around.

My issue was I did not have a starting point to piece together the required information. If someone could point me in the right direction that would be great. Can you not use the C code from example source files for miners, as this contains the logic for the algo.

CHeers

_oh_no_stop_this_

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Quote from: R0land on June 22, 2018, 05:30:27 PM

Little SOCs like the Tegra X1, are all memory bandwidth limited, so you can never get optimal use out of all the cores at once. You get out only 30 h/s cryptonight (I don´t know the ethash speed).
FPGA´s are better, if you have the right environment.

Thank you!
Which algorithm would you target first with FPGA-based miner?
It can surely be ethash and such.

rem26

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Merit: 0

Quote from: dragonmike on June 20, 2018, 10:15:31 AM

Quote from: R0land on June 20, 2018, 09:29:02 AM

Quote from: OGArcher on June 20, 2018, 01:29:31 AM

There are already a handful of people mining altcoins with fpga´s, and they are getting insane hashrates. Only downside is that they don´t release their bitstreams to the public.

Why should they release their bitstreams to the public ? They become nothing for it !

Psst... "become" doesn't mean bekommen.

They do receive something. A nice and beefy dev fee. Look at the total ETH hashpower for example, assume 80% of it is mined using Claymore's miner and take 2% thereof (his fee).

Do the math.

Bitstreams don't work that way. Right now there is no way to capture a developer fee, since software on the PC still has to talk to the FPGA to connect the hashpower to a pool. Given all the folks who will happily recompile and distribute mining programs after disabling the fee to the unwashed masses, there is no upside. Someone will 'improve' the miner and remove the dev fee, and once the bitstream is out, there is no way to fix that.

The Allmine shell will fix that, so developers can release encrypted streams and capture a fee off of the hashrate, but today, as it exists, nobody in their right mind would do it. Until then, FPGA's will mine in big farms where they can pay for the development costs.

R0land

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Quote from: _oh_no_stop_this_ on June 22, 2018, 03:15:37 PM

Can someone here explain to me, is it better to use FPGA-based board for altcoin mining or something based on Tegra X1 chips?
Link: http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-x1-processor.html

The reason I am asking is because I was thinking about ETH miner based on FPGA chips, but then thought that memory issue they got (which makes them kinda asic proof) can be solved better if memory is placed within the same chip where all processing power is located.
There is OpenGL support for these chips, which makes the job easier.
1 teraflop is not much though, but then you have faster performing memory.

Little SOCs like the Tegra X1, are all memory bandwidth limited, so you can never get optimal use out of all the cores at once. You get out only 30 h/s cryptonight (I don´t know the ethash speed).
FPGA´s are better, if you have the right environment.

_oh_no_stop_this_

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Can someone here explain to me, is it better to use FPGA-based board for altcoin mining or something based on Tegra X1 chips?
Link: http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-x1-processor.html

The reason I am asking is because I was thinking about ETH miner based on FPGA chips, but then thought that memory issue they got (which makes them kinda asic proof) can be solved better if memory is placed within the same chip where all processing power is located.
There is OpenGL support for these chips, which makes the job easier.
1 teraflop is not much though, but then you have faster performing memory.

R0land

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Activity: 208

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Quote from: jmigdlc99 on June 22, 2018, 05:47:59 AM

Quote from: R0land on June 20, 2018, 04:36:18 PM

Claymore doesn´t build the algorithm´s, he only made a front end and small improvements.

In case of monero / cryptonight, the algo was build by w0lf.
Claymore only use the algo from w0lf, and receive so much. w0lf only receice the bounty for this job.

Let me calculate Huh

no bounty ... nothing for the bitstream-dev.

Any truth to this? I'd appreciate if you could post a reference link maybe to show maybe how this happened?

This is why dev fees are now preferred over the bounty and one-time fixed costs. Look at all the mining software out there, the best ones are those that have a small dev fee embedded in them. Without dev fees, developers are less motivated to work on improving the software.

https://forum.getmonero.org/7/open-tasks/2400/open-source-amd-miner-by-wolf0
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bounty-for-open-sourced-xmrcryptonight-gpu-miner-bounties-thread-656841
He receive 7550 XMR for the job.
XMRStack, SRBMiner, GateLessGate... all are using his opencl-code...and w0lf get no dev-fee.
The software on the PC is controlling the FPGA and the dev-fee. The bitstream on the FPGA only do the algo.

I would burn the encryted algo on an FPGA for an one-off payment ... maybe Wink

.
Or maybe i will sell the cards with the included algo Grin

.

jmigdlc99

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Quote from: R0land on June 20, 2018, 04:36:18 PM

Claymore doesn´t build the algorithm´s, he only made a front end and small improvements.

In case of monero / cryptonight, the algo was build by w0lf.
Claymore only use the algo from w0lf, and receive so much. w0lf only receice the bounty for this job.

Let me calculate Huh

no bounty ... nothing for the bitstream-dev.

Any truth to this? I'd appreciate if you could post a reference link maybe to show maybe how this happened?

This is why dev fees are now preferred over the bounty and one-time fixed costs. Look at all the mining software out there, the best ones are those that have a small dev fee embedded in them. Without dev fees, developers are less motivated to work on improving the software.

_oh_no_stop_this_

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Activity: 183

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So. Is the miner ready yet to try?

R0land

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Quote from: dragonmike on June 20, 2018, 10:15:31 AM

Quote from: R0land on June 20, 2018, 09:29:02 AM

Quote from: OGArcher on June 20, 2018, 01:29:31 AM

There are already a handful of people mining altcoins with fpga´s, and they are getting insane hashrates. Only downside is that they don´t release their bitstreams to the public.

Why should they release their bitstreams to the public ? They become nothing for it !

Psst... "become" doesn't mean bekommen.

They do receive something. A nice and beefy dev fee. Look at the total ETH hashpower for example, assume 80% of it is mined using Claymore's miner and take 2% thereof (his fee).

Do the math.

Claymore doesn´t build the algorithm´s, he only made a front end and small improvements.

In case of monero / cryptonight, the algo was build by w0lf.
Claymore only use the algo from w0lf, and receive so much. w0lf only receice the bounty for this job.

Let me calculate Huh

no bounty ... nothing for the bitstream-dev.

dragonmike

hero member

Activity: 1274

Merit: 556

Quote from: R0land on June 20, 2018, 09:29:02 AM

Quote from: OGArcher on June 20, 2018, 01:29:31 AM

There are already a handful of people mining altcoins with fpga´s, and they are getting insane hashrates. Only downside is that they don´t release their bitstreams to the public.

Why should they release their bitstreams to the public ? They become nothing for it !

Psst... "become" doesn't mean bekommen.

They do receive something. A nice and beefy dev fee. Look at the total ETH hashpower for example, assume 80% of it is mined using Claymore's miner and take 2% thereof (his fee).

Do the math.

R0land

jr. member

Activity: 208

Merit: 3

Quote from: OGArcher on June 20, 2018, 01:29:31 AM

There are already a handful of people mining altcoins with fpga´s, and they are getting insane hashrates. Only downside is that they don´t release their bitstreams to the public.

Why should they release their bitstreams to the public ? They become nothing for it !

realaccountakira

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Activity: 182

Merit: 11

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Quote from: MagicSmoker on June 20, 2018, 08:20:58 AM

Quote from: Mohondoa on June 20, 2018, 12:32:24 AM

If later on FPGA mining happens, it will be a nightmare for GPU and ASIC miners. Because the price is more cheap and anybody can buy and high hashrate. Not to mention has now begin to be developed for mine all altcoin algorithm. I am waiting to happen soon.

No, FPGAs are several times more expensive than ASICs for the same computational power; their only advantage over ASICs is that they can be reprogrammed (within limits) if a coin forks. They are not nearly as flexible in this regard as GPUs, however. You can sort of think of FPGA miners as halfway between the flexibility of a GPU and the high efficiency of an ASIC.

While this is true for now, it may not be for long. With all the individuals and companies now investing on FPGA development, I wouldn't be surprised if we soon see the price of profitable FPGAs diluted down to the cost of GPUs. It is part of the inevitable evolution of technology.

Exciting to imagine we will soon have badass looking mining rigs instead of the toy-like GPUs which were designed for young gamers.

MagicSmoker

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Quote from: Mohondoa on June 20, 2018, 12:32:24 AM

If later on FPGA mining happens, it will be a nightmare for GPU and ASIC miners. Because the price is more cheap and anybody can buy and high hashrate. Not to mention has now begin to be developed for mine all altcoin algorithm. I am waiting to happen soon.

No, FPGAs are several times more expensive than ASICs for the same computational power; their only advantage over ASICs is that they can be reprogrammed (within limits) if a coin forks. They are not nearly as flexible in this regard as GPUs, however. You can sort of think of FPGA miners as halfway between the flexibility of a GPU and the high efficiency of an ASIC.

OGArcher

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There are already a handful of people mining altcoins with fpga´s, and they are getting insane hashrates. Only downside is that they don´t release their bitstreams to the public.

Mohondoa

newbie

Activity: 154

Merit: 0

If later on FPGA mining happens, it will be a nightmare for GPU and ASIC miners. Because the price is more cheap and anybody can buy and high hashrate. Not to mention has now begin to be developed for mine all altcoin algorithm. I am waiting to happen soon.

Topic: FPGA miner for altcoin - page 2. (Read 4204 times)