Fruitwallet (ios wallet) discussion - page 2.

fruitwallet

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Activity: 102

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BenAnh, gweedo,

Discussed multi-sig with our CTO. He is very optimistic about this. I mean “hierarchical deterministic multisignature” (HDM)
Thank you guys for feedback.
I think to create reddit discussion about business model. Will post a link, you guys are very welcomed.
Want to see which model is more preferable.
If people want multi-sig, we will make multi-sig.

fruitwallet - the most client oriented ios wallet in the world

fruitwallet

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Activity: 102

Merit: 10

Quote from: gweedo on April 02, 2014, 06:08:11 PM

Multi-sig is very easy and not difficult to the end user, that is why there should be no answer but to include it. I also don't think you know much about bitcoin from a technical point either from what you are saying.

Agree.
But what will happen if user loses his phone or it got stolen?

BenAnh

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: fruitwallet on April 02, 2014, 02:52:41 PM

Quote from: BenAnh on April 02, 2014, 11:51:32 AM

With all the hacks and collapses of exchanges recently, you don't expect people to use the wallet with their money on it for whatever reason. If you'd like everyone to use then open-source maybe an option but not the only one. In this world, no one trusts anyone so it doesn't matter if you're honest. Don't you see a problem of trust which no ones has been able to solve. Even the exchange you've trusted they can collapse the next day and your money is gone not to say a wallet is hacked. Will you guarantee that no one will steal the money and the wallet is so secured that it will never be hacked? And the answer is NO because no one can give such assurance unless you buy an insurance policy to ensure everyone that if it's hacked or you run away with their money then they can always get the money back from the insurance company. Simple prob, TRUST!

Hi BebAnh.
I really appreciate your time spent on typing such a long post.
And I support you in all you've said.

I live in Ukraine. I have seen scammers around. Our country is quite poor and has a lot of bad people. Here we just have to be careful everywhere.
Btw would never keep a lot BTC on MtGox, I don't keep a lot at BTC-e either.

But fruitwallet is a pocket service where you supposed to keep just a small amount that you might need for coffee, dinner or just to withdraw in BTC ATM.

So I would like that people look at us like they look at Bank which takes their money and gives them a plastic card. Bank can be closed any day, but people still use banks despite this possibility.

I can say that we implemented all needed security features including Bank security features. We don't want to be hacked as well as all our users don't want to lose their money

Cheers!

The apps doesn't look bad at all. It has potential but the business model will fail you because what's preventing a big boy to design the same apps and crush you?

gweedo

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: fruitwallet on April 02, 2014, 05:18:05 PM

Insecure to the user from us stealing their money?
If yes, then it is done.
We will not implement any difficult to the end user features, at least for now. Lets keep it simple. There are a lot of wallets that are secure but absolutely unusable Sad

What you say means, that we have to store key in storage, we have to think what to do if user switches to other browser, moves file in the storage, or clears the cache or reset the device or just lose the phone? If user loses the phone, then what? "sorry we don't have your keys, your BTC stuck in the chain". That is the task to my CTO actually, but that sounds not too reliable comparing to what we have now.

Overall.
Just imagine fruitwallet it is like cash in you pocket, a bit risky to keep but convenient.

But don't worry, we will not steal anything and our servers are secured

Multi-sig is very easy and not difficult to the end user, that is why there should be no answer but to include it. I also don't think you know much about bitcoin from a technical point either from what you are saying.

fruitwallet

member

Activity: 102

Merit: 10

Insecure to the user from us stealing their money?
If yes, then it is done.
We will not implement any difficult to the end user features, at least for now. Lets keep it simple. There are a lot of wallets that are secure but absolutely unusable Sad

What you say means, that we have to store key in storage, we have to think what to do if user switches to other browser, moves file in the storage, or clears the cache or reset the device or just lose the phone? If user loses the phone, then what? "sorry we don't have your keys, your BTC stuck in the chain". That is the task to my CTO actually, but that sounds not too reliable comparing to what we have now.

Overall.
Just imagine fruitwallet it is like cash in you pocket, a bit risky to keep but convenient.

But don't worry, we will not steal anything and our servers are secured

gweedo

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: fruitwallet on April 02, 2014, 03:57:48 PM

Quote from: gweedo on April 02, 2014, 03:38:49 PM

Quote from: fruitwallet on April 02, 2014, 03:32:57 PM

Quote from: gweedo on April 02, 2014, 03:18:54 PM

You should use multi-sig addresses to make it secure. Or make it so the wallet is encrypt and only using javascript to decrypt it and storing the private keys in local storage. This is way too risky even if you aren't looking to scam but if you get hacked or your hosting takes your Bitcoins then all the users loose their funds. You should research it there are better ways than shared hosting.

We are addicted to security, it is our main priority. The approach we use now is totally secure.
I even gave you my credentials, that means i'm confident about security.
We don't use shared hosting.

Have you tried the app by the way?

If you have access to my coins you don't have proper security and have not researched the best way to do this. Please don't look at coinbase as a model for this. This is a very much a flaw, and way better ways to handle this. Look at wallet services that use multi-sig and using javascript to decrypt and encrypt wallets so you can't have access to the private keys. Learn to use those models. If you continue to use this model I will continue to call you a scam and warn people to not use this.

Do you know any user friendly way to store keys on iphone taking in account that no ios apps can't be downloaded?
Updated. That is why we sign transaction with iphone hardware. But you probably didnt tried that either.

If you have my private keys then I don't care if you signed my transaction on the moon it is insecure. Yes you can use local storage a html 5 api to hold private keys. Remember html 5 is very powerful. But lets now say we don't trust the hardware, well then you can store a public key on your server, I can store a public key on my iphone I can create a transaction that I sign and you then sign, then you push to the network. This would be much more secure than a hosted shared wallet. Shared wallets are the most insecure way of handling user funds.

fruitwallet

member

Activity: 102

Merit: 10

Quote from: gweedo on April 02, 2014, 03:38:49 PM

Quote from: fruitwallet on April 02, 2014, 03:32:57 PM

Quote from: gweedo on April 02, 2014, 03:18:54 PM

You should use multi-sig addresses to make it secure. Or make it so the wallet is encrypt and only using javascript to decrypt it and storing the private keys in local storage. This is way too risky even if you aren't looking to scam but if you get hacked or your hosting takes your Bitcoins then all the users loose their funds. You should research it there are better ways than shared hosting.

We are addicted to security, it is our main priority. The approach we use now is totally secure.
I even gave you my credentials, that means i'm confident about security.
We don't use shared hosting.

Have you tried the app by the way?

If you have access to my coins you don't have proper security and have not researched the best way to do this. Please don't look at coinbase as a model for this. This is a very much a flaw, and way better ways to handle this. Look at wallet services that use multi-sig and using javascript to decrypt and encrypt wallets so you can't have access to the private keys. Learn to use those models. If you continue to use this model I will continue to call you a scam and warn people to not use this.

Do you know any user friendly way to store keys on iphone taking in account that no ios apps can't be downloaded?
Updated. That is why we sign transaction with iphone hardware. But you probably didnt tried that either.

gweedo

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: fruitwallet on April 02, 2014, 03:32:57 PM

Quote from: gweedo on April 02, 2014, 03:18:54 PM

You should use multi-sig addresses to make it secure. Or make it so the wallet is encrypt and only using javascript to decrypt it and storing the private keys in local storage. This is way too risky even if you aren't looking to scam but if you get hacked or your hosting takes your Bitcoins then all the users loose their funds. You should research it there are better ways than shared hosting.

We are addicted to security, it is our main priority. The approach we use now is totally secure.
I even gave you my credentials, that means i'm confident about security.
We don't use shared hosting.

Have you tried the app by the way?

If you have access to my coins you don't have proper security and have not researched the best way to do this. Please don't look at coinbase as a model for this. This is a very much a flaw, and way better ways to handle this. Look at wallet services that use multi-sig and using javascript to decrypt and encrypt wallets so you can't have access to the private keys. Learn to use those models. If you continue to use this model I will continue to call you a scam and warn people to not use this.

fruitwallet

member

Activity: 102

Merit: 10

Quote from: gweedo on April 02, 2014, 03:18:54 PM

You should use multi-sig addresses to make it secure. Or make it so the wallet is encrypt and only using javascript to decrypt it and storing the private keys in local storage. This is way too risky even if you aren't looking to scam but if you get hacked or your hosting takes your Bitcoins then all the users loose their funds. You should research it there are better ways than shared hosting.

We are addicted to security, it is our main priority. The approach we use now is totally secure.
I even gave you my credentials, that means i'm confident about security.
We don't use shared hosting.

Have you tried the app by the way?

gweedo

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: fruitwallet on April 02, 2014, 03:01:21 PM

Quote from: gweedo on April 02, 2014, 11:50:02 AM

Why do you store everyone's bitcoin? You should never use a shared hosting wallet for user funds. Do you have any cold storage protection?

This looks to be a scam. Probably TF coming back.

Hi gweedo.
We store all coins in our wallet to make transactions easier for all the users. We will use cold storage when the amount of bitcoins will be significant.
As i told. We provide service: you can easily and securely use ios for BTC usage.
If you want to try hacking my fruitwallet account -> please:
email: [email protected]
pass: 12345678

If you want to try creating own - go ahead, if you want me to send you some BTC in case you afraid of using yours -> ask me to send you some.

My name is Maksym Krupyshev. Why do you call me Scammer?
Can you explain to everybody?

P.S. I don't know what does TF means (sure i googled). English is not my first language, sorry.

Thanks!

You should use multi-sig addresses to make it secure. Or make it so the wallet is encrypt and only using javascript to decrypt it and storing the private keys in local storage. This is way too risky even if you aren't looking to scam but if you get hacked or your hosting takes your Bitcoins then all the users loose their funds. You should research it there are better ways than shared hosting.

fruitwallet

member

Activity: 102

Merit: 10

Quote from: gweedo on April 02, 2014, 11:50:02 AM

Why do you store everyone's bitcoin? You should never use a shared hosting wallet for user funds. Do you have any cold storage protection?

This looks to be a scam. Probably TF coming back.

Hi gweedo.
We store all coins in our wallet to make transactions easier for all the users. We will use cold storage when the amount of bitcoins will be significant.
As i told. We provide service: you can easily and securely use ios for BTC usage.
If you want to try hacking my fruitwallet account -> please:
email: [email protected]
pass: 12345678

If you want to try creating own - go ahead, if you want me to send you some BTC in case you afraid of using yours -> ask me to send you some.

My name is Maksym Krupyshev. Why do you call me Scammer?
Can you explain to everybody?

P.S. I don't know what does TF means (sure i googled). English is not my first language, sorry.

Thanks!

fruitwallet

member

Activity: 102

Merit: 10

Quote from: BenAnh on April 02, 2014, 11:51:32 AM

With all the hacks and collapses of exchanges recently, you don't expect people to use the wallet with their money on it for whatever reason. If you'd like everyone to use then open-source maybe an option but not the only one. In this world, no one trusts anyone so it doesn't matter if you're honest. Don't you see a problem of trust which no ones has been able to solve. Even the exchange you've trusted they can collapse the next day and your money is gone not to say a wallet is hacked. Will you guarantee that no one will steal the money and the wallet is so secured that it will never be hacked? And the answer is NO because no one can give such assurance unless you buy an insurance policy to ensure everyone that if it's hacked or you run away with their money then they can always get the money back from the insurance company. Simple prob, TRUST!

Hi BebAnh.
I really appreciate your time spent on typing such a long post.
And I support you in all you've said.

I live in Ukraine. I have seen scammers around. Our country is quite poor and has a lot of bad people. Here we just have to be careful everywhere.
Btw would never keep a lot BTC on MtGox, I don't keep a lot at BTC-e either.

But fruitwallet is a pocket service where you supposed to keep just a small amount that you might need for coffee, dinner or just to withdraw in BTC ATM.

So I would like that people look at us like they look at Bank which takes their money and gives them a plastic card. Bank can be closed any day, but people still use banks despite this possibility.

I can say that we implemented all needed security features including Bank security features. We don't want to be hacked as well as all our users don't want to lose their money

Cheers!

BenAnh

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: fruitwallet on March 30, 2014, 03:24:46 AM

Nothing to answer from my side.
We are honest and we will not rob anybody.
We wont give you your keys as well as bank does not give you gold instead of your money, just for you to feel safe.

There are 2 reasons:
1. It will make additional difficulties for user, want to have difficulties? Search for ios solution with keys, there are some hacky ways to install one.
2. Storing keys on your ios device is also risky. Somebody can steal your private key which you're supposed to take with you in written. franky1, dont you think?

Btw, none of the guys who are telling about secure keys even tried the fruitwallet. Why do you think you can feedback our service without trying it?

Franky1, pls register at fruitwallet. I'll send you some btc on your wallet for you to test. You'll see that this service is great even without having keys.
Want you guys me to give you my credentials at fruitwallet?
You can try to withdraw my money if you think keys are needed to protect coins...

With all the hacks and collapses of exchanges recently, you don't expect people to use the wallet with their money on it for whatever reason. If you'd like everyone to use then open-source maybe an option but not the only one. In this world, no one trusts anyone so it doesn't matter if you're honest. Don't you see a problem of trust which no ones has been able to solve. Even the exchange you've trusted they can collapse the next day and your money is gone not to say a wallet is hacked. Will you guarantee that no one will steal the money and the wallet is so secured that it will never be hacked? And the answer is NO because no one can give such assurance unless you buy an insurance policy to ensure everyone that if it's hacked or you run away with their money then they can always get the money back from the insurance company. Simple prob, TRUST!

gweedo

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Why do you store everyone's bitcoin? You should never use a shared hosting wallet for user funds. Do you have any cold storage protection?

This looks to be a scam. Probably TF coming back.

VolanicEruptor

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: Apocalipsis on April 02, 2014, 11:41:38 AM

Quote from: VolanicEruptor on March 29, 2014, 07:05:32 PM

First question: How do I send you all my money? Do you have a bitcoin address I can send to? I like shortcuts.

Just I understood your irony?

Sarcasm, yeah. Right over his head. That's why I have it in my signature. Cheesy

Apocalipsis

full member

Activity: 147

Merit: 100

Quote from: VolanicEruptor on March 29, 2014, 07:05:32 PM

First question: How do I send you all my money? Do you have a bitcoin address I can send to? I like shortcuts.

Just I understood your irony?

fruitwallet

member

Activity: 102

Merit: 10

Quote from: coinnewbit on April 01, 2014, 09:43:04 AM

Quote from: fruitwallet on April 01, 2014, 04:58:52 AM

Quote from: coinnewbit on March 31, 2014, 10:43:25 PM

The send button is being blocked out by the browser, maybe make the website scrollable?
Also, if not already implemented, put the transaction's blockchain addeerss, like coinbase

Thanks. You re right. It works fine starting from 5th iPhone.
Will see what can be done with transactions. Would you like a block number in transaction info? or transaction number?
Thanks a lot for your feedback. cheers.

Oh I mean like when a user clicks on a transaction, he/she would be able to see the transaction on blockchain.info.
Also,
Maybe when the user install the profile tell them whatit does, they may think it's some sort of virus/spyware.

Thanks!
So you mean to redirect user to blockchain website?
We explain it when user signs up https://www.dropbox.com/s/sy15ykugi84vquu/image-32.png

coinnewbit

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: fruitwallet on April 01, 2014, 04:58:52 AM

Quote from: coinnewbit on March 31, 2014, 10:43:25 PM

The send button is being blocked out by the browser, maybe make the website scrollable?
Also, if not already implemented, put the transaction's blockchain addeerss, like coinbase

Thanks. You re right. It works fine starting from 5th iPhone.
Will see what can be done with transactions. Would you like a block number in transaction info? or transaction number?
Thanks a lot for your feedback. cheers.

Oh I mean like when a user clicks on a transaction, he/she would be able to see the transaction on blockchain.info.
Also,
Maybe when the user install the profile tell them whatit does, they may think it's some sort of virus/spyware.

fruitwallet

member

Activity: 102

Merit: 10

Quote from: coinnewbit on March 31, 2014, 10:43:25 PM

The send button is being blocked out by the browser, maybe make the website scrollable?
Also, if not already implemented, put the transaction's blockchain addeerss, like coinbase

Thanks. You re right. It works fine starting from 5th iPhone.
Will see what can be done with transactions. Would you like a block number in transaction info? or transaction number?
Thanks a lot for your feedback. cheers.

coinnewbit

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: fruitwallet on March 31, 2014, 09:43:17 AM

Quote from: coinnewbit on March 31, 2014, 09:17:46 AM

Also, i can't send out less than 0.001 btc. Not very effective. Maybe suggest giving a small bonus? UI looks good, however, a lot of features are not really that great.

Thanks for your reply.
We are still it Beta.
Installing profile is to tie you wallet to the device. It is a security feature, we just got your hadrware identificators. That means no one can steal you BTC without having your iphone. When you try to withdraw my BTC in fruitwallet account, that I've provided you suppose to get an error, that wallet is set up to other device.
Minimal send amount is 0.001 BTC. Do you think it is quite a lot?
Which features don't you like? I would appreciate your feedback.

Quote from: coinnewbit on March 31, 2014, 09:11:31 AM

Hello, apparently i have to install a ios profile. Will this spy on my phone? Also, the description is partially blocked out by the borders and is not scrollable.

It will not spy. It is it even does not install anything, just collects data (udid number)
(UPDATED)If you go to Settings-> General -> Profile, You will see that no profiles applied.
Here is full description of profile https://www.dropbox.com/s/nyix2c9pk2gznk3/image-21.png

The send button is being blocked out by the browser, maybe make the website scrollable?
Also, if not already implemented, put the transaction's blockchain addeerss, like coinbase

Topic: Fruitwallet (ios wallet) discussion - page 2. (Read 4902 times)