Topic: Funding Solar Energy with Bitcoin - a solid state & silicon based economy? - page 3. (Read 2511 times)

Bitcoin mining is too power hungry to make this practical. I understand the guys at Solar Coin are planning on doing this, fitting raspberry pie nodes to each solar panel.

The Bitcoins enter the South African Bitcoin exchange 'Luno'. Demand for Bitcoin in South Africa is very strong, hence why there is always an arbitrage on on the global/South African BTC price (BTC price in SA currently trading at equivalent of USD 959 where as is 919 on Coinbase). The reason why; there are many workers in South Africa that need Bitcoin to send wages back to their families in neighboring African countries. They need to do this via Bitcoin as they are unbanked or can not get permission from the South African reserve bank to send an international wire. The more Bitcoin is entered into the African economy, the easier it will be for wealth to circulate around the continent.

So it is good for Africa. What is in it for The Sun Exchange to use Bitcoin? By accepting enabling Bitcoin as the payment rail for The Sun Exchange: 1) It enables nano-investing (<$10 per unit) with payouts over 20 years on such as small investment, only Bitcoin allow such tiny increments to be sent back to the solar cell owners. 2) It gives transparency to The Sun Exchange Users or prospective customers, you can check the wallet addresses and payment flow into and out of our projects so that you can validate that there is no 'fibs' about revenue production. 3) Smart contracts between the solar plant and the Bitcoin exchanges so that revenue created from selling electricity is automatically distributed back to solar asset owners automatically. This reduces our running costs and also gives our Users confidence that ongoing income is not dependent on The Sun Exchange.

You got it. I have actually been running this project since 2014 and in June 2016we financed a 15kW solar plant to power a school using Bitcoin. we chose to focus on Bitcoin as it is much easier to deal with accross borders than fiat. Those Bitcoiners are now getting BTC income. We have raised 14BTC for our latest project to solar power a tyre recycling factory in South Africa. Invitation on this post is for people to visit our website www.thesunexchange.com and see what they think they would be willing, if anything, to put into electrifying Africa on the basis that they will receive a BTC revenue stream at an IRR of 10% pegged to the South African Rand.

Just to clarify my earlier post. I wasn't thinking of mining, which would be unlikely to be productive. I was thinking that the solar power could be used to run a node and some form of satellite receiver. This would bring Bitcoin payments to remote locations, and could help to build their economies.

just found the website...

seems the business plan is

(A)african location asks for panels and agrees to pay the lease for 20 years..
(I)world investors kickstart the project paying for the panels..

(A)african location pays 'sun exchange' the lease
(S)sunexchange pays back world investors.

hmm.. i see even less bitcoin circulation involved then this topic is 'promoting' and more so just bitcoin being used to buy panels.

unless the OP is proposing a side project thats new and not yet part of the sunexchange business model. and thus still a concept, then i dont see where bitcoin circulates around africa
eg money flow of current websites offering
(Africa) ->  (SunEx) < - > (Investor)
(Africa) ->  (SunEx) < - > (Investor)
(Africa) ->  (SunEx) < - > (Investor)

i dont see where (Africa) gets bitcoin circulating locally

I think  op is actually asking everyone to support him in this project. he is inviting everyone to become partners of his project. He can buy solar panels with fiat money. May be he doesnt have that much fund in fiat to spend . Thats why he is proposing this idea. Collecting bitcoins is easy than transfering fiat money . Thats why I think he is asking to fund in bitcoins. Anyway it is a good project if  executed properly. But I dont think anyone will invest bitcoins just like that. Who knows the op will pay the income generated from the shares.It will be better if you post this in your local forum .There you may get some investors who can actually physically see the progress of the mining site.

yes your a middle man.. an exchange i got that part straight away..

but..


that suggests you want people to hand you bitcoin.. which raised my sceptical mind..
where because you are not a solar panel manufacturer. the actual purchase of solar panels is done in FIAT.
hence me thinking promoting a kickstarter asking for bitcoin is a waste of an asset,.. because its converted to fiat to buy the equipment.

so i replied its better to ask for fiat to buy solar panels.
and when the electric revenue from the solar panels is returned. you then swap it for bitcoin to pay the land owners of the solar panel locations.

to which i now see you already do offer fiat payment. which you should concentrate on as the 'burning of value initial loss of investment'.. not bitcoin

the bits i found iffy were when it seemed you were asking for asset rich bitcoin to be wasted to buy a fiat sold solar panel. and as i said
this can be sidestepped by asking for fiat to burn at the purchasing of the panel from a solar manufacturer.

and then
the interesting part begins..
when electric is produced. and 'put into the grid' your revenue can then be converted to bitcoin for the african community to spend on groceries and such

but your still having to deal with the fee war vs LN permissioned dilemma surrounding spending bitcoin, which is less appealing than m-pesa.


EG

A. solar panel purchase.. concentrate on burning fiat to purchase panels
B. convert fiat 'ongrid revenue' to bitcoin to be passed around (btc put into circulation while you burn the fiat, not other way round)
C. sort out a micropayment mechanism that is not permissioned contracts and without a large fee. to ensure utility in africa

The Sun Exchange doesn't need to do a Kickstarter, as The Sun Exchange IS Kickstarter for solar. The key differentiator of The Sun Exchange is that the contributors are directly purchasing solar assets in Africa and then securing the income they generate for 20 years, payable in Bitcoin. The Sun Exchange accepts BTC AND fiat payments in recognition that not everyone uses Bitcoin and that people that do use it want to hold.

People are using The Sun Exchange as a proxy bitcoin exchange, paying in fiat and getting paid out in BTC.

Also, many people are buying Bitcoin for the first time just to be able to use the system as there is an arbitrage in Africa meaning that for $100 sent using BTC, they end up owning $110 worth of solar assets.

At what point have I ever asked for donations? Of course a donation system wouldnt be sustainable. This is new financial system - Bitcoin and Solar. Bitcoin has value, solar does work for free and creates value.

The system that I am refferring too, that already exists and is operating, uses Bitcoin to finance solar panels, and the solar energy that they create is SOLD to Africans, and this revenue is sent back to the Bitcoin contributor IN Bitcoin. The revenue received by the Bitcoin payer is equivalent to 10% IRR against fiat. This can not happen in Africa without Bitcoin due to fiat international remittance costs. This solves the funding gap for solar energy in Africa and allows people in the West to earn income from solar powering Africa.

1. taking bitcoin (which has good asset value) just to convert to fiat(which has no asset value) to buy a panel. makes no sense.
    you dont hold the bitcoin anymore, the donator has lost a valuable asset. etc etc. but.....
    taking fiat (which has no asset value) just to buy a panel. makes sense.

then (the part that does spark your interest and the interest of bitcoiners)

2. when the fiat revenue of the electric makes returns. you then buy bitcoin. and distribute the bitcoin to the landowners with solar panels.

but as i said. your still stuck with the fee war vs permissioned LN contract dilemma of bitcoins spending utility for low wage 'microtransactions' which m-pesa solves far more cheaply.

so that why i said for point one. to do a fiat kickstarter. to get the panels. and then sort out the bitcoin circulation/utility dilemma

so your not looking for a self sufficient economy.. your looking for bitcoin donations to buy solar panels.
in short get people to hand you BTC so you can convert it to fiat, and the buy solar panels. which then are placed in africa so that communities can get power.

hmm.. better off doing a fiat kick starter.
unless you find a way for the solar panels to be productive to self fund their own expansion, you wont get far. and it no longer becomes about bitcoin aswell if the production isnt producing bitcoin to self fund expansion(you admit its not about mining).

i at first wanted to put aside the 'donation' requests of $1000 per panel beg, and instead handle what your wrote as if it was actually a utopian idea of self sufficiency.. but now its not about self sufficiency or bitcoin production.. it brings me back to my first sceptical opinion of just a donation beg.

might be worth you trying it in the fiat donation/charity websites.. after all fiat is literally materialised out of nothing and thrown about aimlessly this day.

Perhaps I didnt make my point clear enough, I am not suggesting at that we mine Bitcoin in Afirca, OR power Bitcoin Mines with solar panels, but the reverse. We finance solar panels WITH Bitcoins. That is the tipping point to a new economic system based on solid state clean energy. No fossil fuels, no moving parts. And it is not Utopian, it is happening already whether you believe it or not. A bit like Donald Trumps approach to climate change!

Throughout Africa people skipped wired communications and went straight to mobile. People are skipping bank accounts and straight to mobile money systems like MPesa. Africa is also skipping fossil fuel based infrastructure and going straight to solar, and The Sun Exchange are enabling people using Bitcoin to finance and own the solar panels and the revenue they create. And those Bitcoins dont get exhausted they stay in circulation. It is a new economy based on silicon.

To a large extent, these are correct observations based on today's current economic climate. I'm also of the opinion that the major concern should simply be the recovery cost for the ASIC, rather than electricity costs, since a long-term calculation anyway means the asic gets obsolete very quickly so that is the chief concern for any would-be miner.

2. If the 1k solar panel is a one time cost, then it might work out for a lifetime of at least 3 Asics (panels do last longer now I think), if the plan is to mine that long. In that case, this even pushes you to only think of the Asic recovery. The solar panel is basically your replacement energy source - even if mining doesn't work out, you can use the energy. Get enough policymakers behind it and you can even sell your energy back to the govt if your mining ceases.

3. Not all of Africa has the kind of heat you're talking about. A LOT of Eastern Africa has very mild mean temperaturess. Ethiopia and a lot of Kenya, both with well-developed infrastructure for mining at least in the capitals (Addis and Nairobi, respectively) , have lots of sun all year round and is on average in the 15s to 20s Celcius. Even Europe has blistering summers more than double that temperature. That's already a natural advantage on cooling costs.

4 and 5. Agree very much, unless mining also comes in tandem with innovation that allows low tech users to access bitcoin, it's not going to work. You need to replicate M-pesa's success with bitcoin.

it isn't a question of productivity it is a matter of cost of electricity per kWh. You would also need to consider stability of data connection which would be an issue in many places in Africa. The point in my post if that now Bitcoins exist, money that wasnt there before, it can be used to finance solar panels in Africa which then create electricity very well due to the optimal sunlight conditions. The revenue created by the solar panels can be distributed back to the solar panel owners in Bitcoin.

The amount of electricity generated over the lifespan of the solar panel greatly exceeds the amount of energy it took to generate the Bitcoin in the first place. Hence why this would lead to a virtuous circle and lead to a clean energy based economy.

1. bitcoin mining costs are not an electric concern.. its the ASIC price itself that kills off ROI
    one asic costing a non asic manufacturer = $2100+ (plus means delivery PSU ventilation not included)
    one asic costing a asic manufacturer = $0
    this is because for every asic they sell to the world the asic manufacturer keeps 2+ asics and spare fiat to pay electric, wages and other costs.
    electric cost to get a btc in china $225, $450 america and $900 UK. but america, UK and africa would also need to stump up $2100+ for the asic itself.

2. if it costs $1000 for a solar panel to power an asic and $2100+ for the asic itself. the ROI required is well over $3k. sorry but its not going to work out.

3. african will fry the asic's, or atleast require 2x$1000 solar investment to cover the ventilation costs aswell as the asic. making ROI requirement ~$4k

4. african labour costs (minimum wage) are also low, which due to bitcoins fee war, has priced africa out of seeing utility in bitcoin

5. to raise point 4 in more detail. if you will rebuttle the fee war by talking about LN. .. LN is permissioned contracts with penalties and requiring second party consent. which makes it less appealing and less utility than M-pesa

6. most africans can get a small solar panel enough to give 5volts of electric to a mobile phone. and use M-pesa. africa is not suitable or desirable for a mining farm

sorry to be blunt, but the utopian dream of the OP, and the reality of utility in africa are on opposite sides

Wouldn't it be more productive to power Bitcoin directly with solar energy in Africa.

Does Bitcoin hold the key to sustainable development in Africa? and the planet?

Today, over 620 million people live without access to electricity in sub-Saharan Africa; that's twice the population of the United States without access to the modern day electrical conveniences and necessities that facilitate our lives and work each day. Africa is currently home to some of the world's fastest growing economies, however, lack of affordable and reliable energy hinders tangible progress for much of its population.

In addition to housing some of the world's most promising economies, Africa is the sunniest continent on Earth. Despite present issues surrounding energy access, favourable sun-light conditions and historically low solar-panel costs indicate that the cheapest and quickest way for Africa to become electrified in the future is through solar power. Unfortunately, investing in Africa can be problematic due to high levels of government corruption. Many believe that the advent of crypto-currency and blockchain technology may hold the solution.

Solar powering Africa with Bitcoin

The solar energy crowd-selling platform www.TheSunExchange.com, which won 'Best Bitcoin and Blockchain Business in Africa' in 2016, has taken the international remittance properties of Bitcoin and applied it into solving Africa's energy crisis. Most solar panels in the world are installed on the roofs of commercial and industrial buildings such as factories and warehouses. This is not the case in many regions of Africa, where projects under $1million are left unfunded as debt from African banks is expensive and development banks won?t write cheques that small.

To close this funding gap for solar energy, The Sun Exchange hosts technically validated solar projects as ?crowd-sales?, inviting individuals around the world to purchase the photo-voltaic cells that make up the solar panels using Bitcoin micro-payments. Following the principles of crowd-funding, The Sun Exchange solar projects are pre-financed, and only constructed once all available solar cells have been purchased. To overcome the volatility of bitcoin pricing during a 60-day crowd-sale period, the platform tracks the BTC price and allocates accordingly the number of solar cells to the buyer when the crowd-sale completes.

Once the solar plant is in operation, the owners of the solar cells receive a 20 year stream of passive Bitcoin income from the rental payments of the electricity user. This means the solar cell owners earn an average rate of return of 10% per annum for two decades.  A South African school and now a tyre recycling factory have been funded in this way, and the solar cells are owned globally by individual digital currency users with ongoing solar powered nano-income payments made possible because of the unique properties of Bitcoin.

Bitcoin and the zero carbon solid state economy

While Bitcoin?s potential to fuel investment in and distributed ownership of our future global energy supply is promising, the amount of energy that the Bitcoin mining network requires continues to draw criticism. Some claim that it will consume as much electricity as the country of Denmark by 2020.  In view that services such as The Sun Exchange enable Bitcoin to be used for financing renewable energy generation, how does this impact the Bitcoin ecosystems energy balance?

No one knows for certain how much energy the Bitcoin network requires to run. In a recent Silicon Valley meetup, computer scientist Andreas Anonolpolis proposed that the Bitcoin mining network may require around 350MW of power to run, which is just over 3 TWh (terra watt hours) of electricity use each year. With an assumption that the majority of Bitcoin mining takes place in coal powered China, then the annual carbon emissions will be 3066000 metric tonnes. That's double the carbon footprint of the world?s entire fleet of passenger-laden Boeing 747's, if they were to fly continuously around the globe at once.

At a $1000 BTC price, one Bitcoin can be used to finance 1 kW of solar power plant. If that solar plant were to be installed in sunny but coal reliant and energy hungry Africa, 1kW of solar panels will generate 1800kWh of electricity per year, offsetting nearly 2 tonnes of carbon emissions.  In this case, the energy it took to mine that Bitcoin (666kWh) will be paid back in just under 18 weeks. Given that a solar panel will carry on generating clean electricity for at least 25 years, a single Bitcoin used to fund solar energy actually creates a positive balance of  400000kWh (400MWh) of clean sun-powered electricity over the system's lifespan. The Bitcoin that financed it still exist, and are being traded in the markets doing work.

Bitcoin is money created on a silicon chip powered by electricity. It can now be used to finance silicon chips that produce electricity which can be sold for money. Are we potentially witnessing the dawn of a 100% silicon based clean energy economy? In Africa, we may well be.