Topic: Funds “frozen” in TyGrr-Bot’s MtGox account. - page 2. (Read 6139 times)

Another issue is that laws regarding bitcoin are somewhat still open to interpretation and/or without precedent. Lots of gray area. Who issues and is responsible for bitcoin, a government? No. Is it a supranational currency like the SDR? No. Is it backed by something tangible? No. Etc.

That's all there is to it? I'll do my own due diligence, but a big thank you for the information. Very interesting, and clearly, having some securities on an exchange or two doesn't preclude bitcoin from still being in its "wild west" infancy.

Should be interesting to see where the chips fall on so many of these "investments."

I love the enthusiasm and entrepreneurial spirit that accompanies bitcoin users and speculators, but operating something like a legit exchange is no small task. I can't wait to dig into the nuts and bolts of GLBSE.

Just pay the tiny extra fees to transfer MtGoxUSD to a third party who will send you a wire. Eliminates all the problems of directly dealing with exchanges and their microscope examinations of outgoing funds they legally have to do. #bitcoin-otc is full of such people same with all of Gox's partners, or trade here with somebody reliable.

When you want to buy bitcoins do the same thing, avoid all the deposit holds and rules by buying GoxUSD. All these problems evaporate I've never had any withdrawal issues doing this. Sure it costs an extra $20-60 per $1,000 but who cares if it means no hassles, no holds, no endless ID notaries and DNA testing. 

FTFY

In defense of Mt.Gox's new policies:

http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2012-A001.html

Its not as complicated as you are probably thinking.

GLBSE a website where you create a bitcoin denominated securities without providing any information as to who you are.

Additionally, It's not a decentralized service and it is ran by a guy that lives in the UK, and the servers are in the United States.

I recently tried to explain to him that this is a terrible idea.

The person that started this thread is the "founder" of one of these GLBSE companies. Their claim was that they were making arbitrage trades between BTC and unspecified currency. It appears this person is now trying to make like Sam Israel III with the principal.

It wouldn't be funny, but this is probably over a very tiny amount of money.

Depends what types of shares you're talking about (preferred, callable, convertible, common, etc), but generally speaking when one buys and sells shares, they're issued via proxy in a street name, such as "Cede & Co." / DTC (google it), which theoretically improves liquidity. A custodian account, such as those held with a custodian bank or a private family fund, may hold shares in the name of the actual title holder. Custodian accounts offer a layer of legal protection against various kinds of risk, and if they're properly established in the name of the trustee, then they provide bona fide ownership rights without exemption (although this is rare). Custodian accounts are designed to unambiguously establish title and ownership as specifically as possible.

Regardless of how shares are held, the exchange is simply a regulated (vs. OTC) market whose "market makers" (google it) provide liquidity --- bid / ask --- under mutually agreed upon terms. For example, the NYSE only holds shares of a stock insofar as a market maker must maintain those shares for liquidity purposes --- not investment purposes. A computer typically performs this function. Think of an exchange as a meeting place where everyone gets together to make deals.

I don't know how this relates to GLBSE, as I don't follow the GLBSE, but now I'm curious and am going to have to check it out!

I recently tried to explain to Mr. James of GLBSE the difference between issuing and providing custodianship for shares, and the services a stock exchange provides. Perhaps you can do a better job.

Seeking investors and suggesting a possible return on investment is one thing, but selling actual shares/securities is something far more regulated and scrutinized. I don't have a dog in this fight either way, but I work in finance and know that selling shares is serious business.

Just to recap: "Goat" claims that his high dividend is from arbitrage income, made by constantly shifting bitcoins into and out of various currencies.

Now he claims that he attempted to sell some "significant" number of bitcoins and transfer the proceeds to a bank in Thailand. This transaction was denied by Mt. Gox, the largest bitcoin exchange.

Does this suggest to you "Goat" had ever made any transactions from Bitcoin to any currency, the claimed arbitrage, prior to this moment?

Does this suggest to you that he was attempting to withdraw the entire amount raised by selling counterfeit securities?

Is the transfer of proceeds from the sale of counterfeit securities between international banks considered money laundering?

You mock me sir. You have added distortion to my post. I  demand you remove the space below 'The facts:' to maintain my formatting!

Mr. James, do you now understand why it is a bad idea for your service to issue counterfeit securities?

FTFY

Removed your stamp No mockery intended; paraphrasing you

The facts:
1. Chang-noi was attempting to link 2 identities to one account and contacted Mt. Gox support via IRC for how to proceed
2. Mt. Gox allowed and instructed identity 2 to setup and then assisted to get AML approval
3. Identity 1 or 2 attempted to transfer funds to identity 2's account
4. Then and only then did Mt. Gox react to a potential illegal action

While much can be assumed as to why Mt. Gox allowed the situation to escalate to an account achieving frozen status, it is clear from what the OP posted, Mt. Gox failed to ask proper follow up questions during the initial support incident. Had Mt. Gox asked a few more questions they could have prevented any interruption in service of the customers account. Mt. Gox failed to act responsibly early on and had allowed a situation to escalate until frozen funds were the result. Mt. Gox had a mental pause moment and they should work to restore the account to the previous conditions before the incident and apologize for the failure on their part to clarify the correct legal requirements limiting such account activity.

Both parties are guilty of acting irresponsibly carrying out business transactions in a manner that is uncommon to standard business practices employed by the majority of legitimate businesses acting responsibly.

Listen, NO ONE CARES, because it is just a one sided rant. Going public with this without letting MtGox tell their side of the story just shows how you cannot be trusted to run a competent business.

If you have any balls to speak of, you will give authorization to MtGox to reply with their side of the story, including any information that may be normally protected under their privacy policy.

Otherwise, I would recommend that you delete all postings related to this incident and stop digging your own grave.

So, no full story.

We uploaded 10 documents as requested and then received this e-mail.

Dear TyGrr-Bot,

We regret to inform you that the identification documentation you have submitted has been reviewed, and your request has been temporarily denied.

Reasons(s)

One individual's identity may only be linked to one account. If you have more than one account and wish to submit AML information for all of your accounts you will need to contact support ([email protected]) to merge your accounts first. Please do not resubmit your AML request until after your accounts have been merged.

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, but it would be greatly appreciated if you resubmit the requested clarification(s) above.

Otherwise, if you would like to make further enquiries in relation to this, please do not hesitate to contact Mt.Gox Support.




We only followed the directions of Mark,



Hi,

If it's about two married people, then it should be easy. We need the following documents:

- Marriage registration certificate (if not in english, please join translation)
- ID of the withdraw recipient
- Proof of address for withdraw recipient

You can scan and upload the documents via https://mtgox.com/forms/verification after logging in.


Thanks,
Mark
MtGox.com Team



However TyGrr is more than happy to follow the directions of Mt. Gox as we trust that they are following all laws and this is something we support. We will ask for information about the merging process and how to accomplish it.

Thank you.

Glad to see it

I once had to spend three weeks trying to pay a Pakistani pine nut supplier and had a similar issue, so I know this can be a SLOW and PAINFUL process that does no one any good.

As stated in the OP the approval to send the wire to an account that was not of the AML owner was done by a Mt. Gox support member that was not M Tux. This is not disputed and we have the logs. However to protect the other staff member who it now seems might have given bad advice we will not list his name or his logs unless Mt. Gox would like to claim the events never happened.

@BigPiggy 

The TyGrr operations are happy to work with Mt. Gox to help them stay operating legally and under the very unclear for us AML laws. We are happy to submit to them documents that they have now requested. Threats of law enforcement and frozen funds being sent to court is what we objected to as being unreasonable. Keep in mind the account was AML verified and we have so far this morning uploaded 5 new documents with several more coming shortly.

Thank you.

Directly quote in the OP where people from mtgox state that it is ok to wire money from his wife's mtgox account to his bank account in America.  I only see emails stating that his wife account is verified and asking how long it will take for verification to be completed.

While I personally don't like mtgox's verification procedures, but it is a price we have to pay since bitcoins are not accepted everywhere.  From what I read in the OP they seemed to respond professionally.