MtGox is handling it properly and professionally. It is Goat who is turning this into the major whiney bitch-fest it has become, which is additionally suspicious.
I must add my +1 to this. 
Topic: Funds “frozen” in TyGrr-Bot’s MtGox account. - page 3. (Read 6139 times)
As well as, if I read it right, the payouts were to two different non-contiguous continents also. You'd typically expect spouses to have their accounts within the same geographic region, so this would count as another red flag, begging to be verified.
-- Smoov
You forget the part where they asked Mt. Gox first before they did anything, Mt. Gox said it's OK, then after they made the transaction decided it was illegal and froze the account. WTF!-- Smoov
When someone tells me something needs to be sent to their wife, I pretty much expect the same address unless told differently, and then, it is still typically in the same general area.
But, if I'm sending something to someone's wife, and that her address ends up on the other side of the freakin' planet? Yeah, that's a serious WTF moment.
I wouldn't tend to ask the husband "is she also in North America?" That would just be stupid.
Sorry, but this situation, as described by the participants, would make me feel uncomfortable too, to the point of freezing everything, and wanting some verification/confirmation of who I'm dealing with.
Cuz... if I allowed it to go through, and it turned out to be a scammer who hacked their accounts? That, is SOOO much worse.
MtGox is handling it properly and professionally. It is Goat who is turning this into the major whiney bitch-fest it has become, which is additionally suspicious.
-- Smoov
Thailand along with several other countries that have active terrorist cells or the equivalent, are on a "watch list" with most reputable financial institutuions so transfers in and out of these locations take more time and documents than what is required for countries not on watch lists.
So watchlist + even the slightest inconsistency =
So watchlist + even the slightest inconsistency =
As well as, if I read it right, the payouts were to two different non-contiguous continents also. You'd typically expect spouses to have their accounts within the same geographic region, so this would count as another red flag, begging to be verified.
-- Smoov
You forget the part where they asked Mt. Gox first before they did anything, Mt. Gox said it's OK, then after they made the transaction decided it was illegal and froze the account. WTF!-- Smoov
Where is the documentation of that in the OP? I did not see that.
Then you can't read. Seriously, I'd have to paste the first 20% of the OP.
Actually I was being an ass because all that was said about getting prior approval to have his wife send money to Chaang-Noi's US bank account was:
Quote
Magical Tux was made aware. Magical Tux personally gave permission to Chaang-Noi to allow his wife to set up an account and have it AML verified. The AML was not only approved but the limit on the account was raised when requested.
also
Quote
After this international wire was sent Chaang-Noi contacted Mt Gox staff (Not Magical Tux) to find out if an AML verified account could send money to their spouse. It was repeatedly made clear by a member of Mt Gox staff that this would not be a problem.
No actual emails or irc chats were posted discussing this, so I don't see this as documentation to prove that a proper request was made. MagicalTux can't release the communication so it is only one person's version of the facts.
I heard this was being resolved so that is good. It seems like what is needed for any of the TyGrr businesses is to separate the businesses from each other, get proper business bank accounts, and properly verify identification for the money managers of the businesses.
It amazes me that people will test the most mundane things before going at it for real, but when it comes to big things they don't. Test all withdraw options before putting a lot of money into anything.
As well as, if I read it right, the payouts were to two different non-contiguous continents also. You'd typically expect spouses to have their accounts within the same geographic region, so this would count as another red flag, begging to be verified.
-- Smoov
You forget the part where they asked Mt. Gox first before they did anything, Mt. Gox said it's OK, then after they made the transaction decided it was illegal and froze the account. WTF!-- Smoov
Where is the documentation of that in the OP? I did not see that.
Doesn't sound like Goat is trying to steal his own money. Sounds like Mt Gox are selectively holding onto funds without good reason and then using AML legislation (in which jurisdiction, Japan?) as an excuse to take their client's money.
There's no other way to look at it... Its common practice for wives/spouses to have access to joint accounts / business accounts. Trying to quote AML laws when working across multiple jurisdictions is a legal nightmare at best and instead of looking after their customers, Mt Gox is swallowing the cash up and then blaming AML.
Here in Australia, husbands and wives generally use a family trust when they want to share assets etc
The only recourse I can see is to sue Mt Gox in Japan and do it soon before they close up shop and the directors jump ship with all our money.
There's no other way to look at it... Its common practice for wives/spouses to have access to joint accounts / business accounts. Trying to quote AML laws when working across multiple jurisdictions is a legal nightmare at best and instead of looking after their customers, Mt Gox is swallowing the cash up and then blaming AML.
Here in Australia, husbands and wives generally use a family trust when they want to share assets etc
The only recourse I can see is to sue Mt Gox in Japan and do it soon before they close up shop and the directors jump ship with all our money.
This is ridiculous. I'm convinced that MtGox is reputable. They are big enough to be under the scrutiny of governments and be a hacking target. These facts make these crazy requirements needed. If the directors were going to jump ship, they would have already.
Normally I would agree, but look at all the threads with people that have tried to wire funds out of their Mt Gox accounts and still don't have their funds a month later.
There isn't just 1 or 2, there are so far around half a dozen and they're all over the world.
As well as, if I read it right, the payouts were to two different non-contiguous continents also. You'd typically expect spouses to have their accounts within the same geographic region, so this would count as another red flag, begging to be verified.
-- Smoov
You forget the part where they asked Mt. Gox first before they did anything, Mt. Gox said it's OK, then after they made the transaction decided it was illegal and froze the account. WTF!-- Smoov
Where is the documentation of that in the OP? I did not see that.
Here at TyGrr we do not fully understand AML law but are very willing to work with Mt. Gox to help them stay operating legally. This is why we asked them about everything before we did anything and why were were AML verified.
We are happy to send them the requested documents now that they have made clear and specific requests. We understand that some red flags we raised and we are happy to work with Mt. Gox directly to clear them. However the prospect of having to go to Japan to defend in court is not ideal for anyone involved.
Thank you.
We are happy to send them the requested documents now that they have made clear and specific requests. We understand that some red flags we raised and we are happy to work with Mt. Gox directly to clear them. However the prospect of having to go to Japan to defend in court is not ideal for anyone involved.
Thank you.
As well as, if I read it right, the payouts were to two different non-contiguous continents also. You'd typically expect spouses to have their accounts within the same geographic region, so this would count as another red flag, begging to be verified.
-- Smoov
You forget the part where they asked Mt. Gox first before they did anything, Mt. Gox said it's OK, then after they made the transaction decided it was illegal and froze the account. WTF! -- Smoov
Doesn't sound like Goat is trying to steal his own money. Sounds like Mt Gox are selectively holding onto funds without good reason and then using AML legislation (in which jurisdiction, Japan?) as an excuse to take their client's money.
There's no other way to look at it... Its common practice for wives/spouses to have access to joint accounts / business accounts. Trying to quote AML laws when working across multiple jurisdictions is a legal nightmare at best and instead of looking after their customers, Mt Gox is swallowing the cash up and then blaming AML.
Here in Australia, husbands and wives generally use a family trust when they want to share assets etc
The only recourse I can see is to sue Mt Gox in Japan and do it soon before they close up shop and the directors jump ship with all our money.
You must admit though, since his wife didn't have the same last name, it wasn't known that she was indeed his wife. Additionally, most any financial institution would regard several sudden payouts to several accounts with some suspicion.There's no other way to look at it... Its common practice for wives/spouses to have access to joint accounts / business accounts. Trying to quote AML laws when working across multiple jurisdictions is a legal nightmare at best and instead of looking after their customers, Mt Gox is swallowing the cash up and then blaming AML.
Here in Australia, husbands and wives generally use a family trust when they want to share assets etc
The only recourse I can see is to sue Mt Gox in Japan and do it soon before they close up shop and the directors jump ship with all our money.
-- Smoov
Doesn't sound like Goat is trying to steal his own money. Sounds like Mt Gox are selectively holding onto funds without good reason and then using AML legislation (in which jurisdiction, Japan?) as an excuse to take their client's money.
There's no other way to look at it... Its common practice for wives/spouses to have access to joint accounts / business accounts. Trying to quote AML laws when working across multiple jurisdictions is a legal nightmare at best and instead of looking after their customers, Mt Gox is swallowing the cash up and then blaming AML.
Here in Australia, husbands and wives generally use a family trust when they want to share assets etc
The only recourse I can see is to sue Mt Gox in Japan and do it soon before they close up shop and the directors jump ship with all our money.
There's no other way to look at it... Its common practice for wives/spouses to have access to joint accounts / business accounts. Trying to quote AML laws when working across multiple jurisdictions is a legal nightmare at best and instead of looking after their customers, Mt Gox is swallowing the cash up and then blaming AML.
Here in Australia, husbands and wives generally use a family trust when they want to share assets etc
The only recourse I can see is to sue Mt Gox in Japan and do it soon before they close up shop and the directors jump ship with all our money.
This is ridiculous. I'm convinced that MtGox is reputable. They are big enough to be under the scrutiny of governments and be a hacking target. These facts make these crazy requirements needed. If the directors were going to jump ship, they would have already.
Doesn't sound like Goat is trying to steal his own money. Sounds like Mt Gox are selectively holding onto funds without good reason and then using AML legislation (in which jurisdiction, Japan?) as an excuse to take their client's money.
There's no other way to look at it... Its common practice for wives/spouses to have access to joint accounts / business accounts. Trying to quote AML laws when working across multiple jurisdictions is a legal nightmare at best and instead of looking after their customers, Mt Gox is swallowing the cash up and then blaming AML.
Here in Australia, husbands and wives generally use a family trust when they want to share assets etc
The only recourse I can see is to sue Mt Gox in Japan and do it soon before they close up shop and the directors jump ship with all our money.
There's no other way to look at it... Its common practice for wives/spouses to have access to joint accounts / business accounts. Trying to quote AML laws when working across multiple jurisdictions is a legal nightmare at best and instead of looking after their customers, Mt Gox is swallowing the cash up and then blaming AML.
Here in Australia, husbands and wives generally use a family trust when they want to share assets etc
The only recourse I can see is to sue Mt Gox in Japan and do it soon before they close up shop and the directors jump ship with all our money.
How can you assume this is Goat or his wife requesting the money? What paperwork across jurisdictions can prove that his wife is the person requesting the money? What paperwork would be OK to show a marriage between Goat and his wife? This is why banks do not allow anyone other than who is specifically named on an account from withdrawing money. MtGox's TOS state that an account holder can only transfer money to another account that they have in their own name.
It would be better to get a registered company to take care of the TyGrr-Bot business, then open a business bank account in that name. The people that are responsible for money can be on the business bank account. It seems from the information left there that these accounts were personal accounts, which is a big mistake to do when running a business.
Doesn't sound like Goat is trying to steal his own money. Sounds like Mt Gox are selectively holding onto funds without good reason and then using AML legislation (in which jurisdiction, Japan?) as an excuse to take their client's money.
There's no other way to look at it... Its common practice for wives/spouses to have access to joint accounts / business accounts. Trying to quote AML laws when working across multiple jurisdictions is a legal nightmare at best and instead of looking after their customers, Mt Gox is swallowing the cash up and then blaming AML.
Here in Australia, husbands and wives generally use a family trust when they want to share assets etc
The only recourse I can see is to sue Mt Gox in Japan and do it soon before they close up shop and the directors jump ship with all our money.
You must admit though, since his wife didn't have the same last name, it wasn't known that she was indeed his wife. Additionally, most any financial institution would regard several sudden payouts to several accounts with some suspicion. There's no other way to look at it... Its common practice for wives/spouses to have access to joint accounts / business accounts. Trying to quote AML laws when working across multiple jurisdictions is a legal nightmare at best and instead of looking after their customers, Mt Gox is swallowing the cash up and then blaming AML.
Here in Australia, husbands and wives generally use a family trust when they want to share assets etc
The only recourse I can see is to sue Mt Gox in Japan and do it soon before they close up shop and the directors jump ship with all our money.
Doesn't sound like Goat is trying to steal his own money. Sounds like Mt Gox are selectively holding onto funds without good reason and then using AML legislation (in which jurisdiction, Japan?) as an excuse to take their client's money.
There's no other way to look at it... Its common practice for wives/spouses to have access to joint accounts / business accounts. Trying to quote AML laws when working across multiple jurisdictions is a legal nightmare at best and instead of looking after their customers, Mt Gox is swallowing the cash up and then blaming AML.
Here in Australia, husbands and wives generally use a family trust when they want to share assets etc
The only recourse I can see is to sue Mt Gox in Japan and do it soon before they close up shop and the directors jump ship with all our money.
Without the other side of the story, you're missing out on a lot. There's no other way to look at it... Its common practice for wives/spouses to have access to joint accounts / business accounts. Trying to quote AML laws when working across multiple jurisdictions is a legal nightmare at best and instead of looking after their customers, Mt Gox is swallowing the cash up and then blaming AML.
Here in Australia, husbands and wives generally use a family trust when they want to share assets etc
The only recourse I can see is to sue Mt Gox in Japan and do it soon before they close up shop and the directors jump ship with all our money.
Doesn't sound like Goat is trying to steal his own money. Sounds like Mt Gox are selectively holding onto funds without good reason and then using AML legislation (in which jurisdiction, Japan?) as an excuse to take their client's money.
There's no other way to look at it... Its common practice for wives/spouses to have access to joint accounts / business accounts. Trying to quote AML laws when working across multiple jurisdictions is a legal nightmare at best and instead of looking after their customers, Mt Gox is swallowing the cash up and then blaming AML.
Here in Australia, husbands and wives generally use a family trust when they want to share assets etc
The only recourse I can see is to sue Mt Gox in Japan and do it soon before they close up shop and the directors jump ship with all our money.
There's no other way to look at it... Its common practice for wives/spouses to have access to joint accounts / business accounts. Trying to quote AML laws when working across multiple jurisdictions is a legal nightmare at best and instead of looking after their customers, Mt Gox is swallowing the cash up and then blaming AML.
Here in Australia, husbands and wives generally use a family trust when they want to share assets etc
The only recourse I can see is to sue Mt Gox in Japan and do it soon before they close up shop and the directors jump ship with all our money.
Use another exchange. It's known in the forum that MtGox is freezing some clients assets at their will.
Running an arbitrage bot without including the largest exchange would not be optimal. Besides, it looks to me like Gox was just doing their due diligence. Better that they froze the account and then deal with it quickly than potentially letting funds be stolen IMHO. 
Use another exchange. It's known in the forum that MtGox is freezing some clients assets at their will.
@Goat : You need to set up a company (a legal entity, so both you and your wife are shareholders, worse case a joint account. This way you could have used a single MTGox account with your wife. Just say sorry to MtGox and ask them to fund back the money into the bot account. And wire into your's wife account. I don't think challenging them right now will do any good for anyone.
I don't know about international laws, but in US husband and wife are two different legal entities. Meaning my wife cannot do anything with an account under my name.
I don't know about international laws, but in US husband and wife are two different legal entities. Meaning my wife cannot do anything with an account under my name.
This is off topic as well as wrong.
That's a state, not federal issue. In most jurisdictions in the US, spouses are considered part of the single entity for LLCs.
Adding to vampires line of thought; It is usually good business practice and sensible accounting to have a business banking account being operated as Tygrr-Bot, into which Mt. Gox Tygrr-Bot account funds get transferred into. Then from Tygrr-Bot business bank account all employees and share holders can receive payments or transfers.
I guess this explains why there have been no updates on the status of TyGrr-Bot. I hope you can resolve the issues with Mt. Gox, an official update in the original topic wouldn't be a bad thing neither.
@Goat : You need to set up a company (a legal entity, so both you and your wife are shareholders, worse case a joint account. This way you could have used a single MTGox account with your wife. Just say sorry to MtGox and ask them to fund back the money into the bot account. And wire into your's wife account. I don't think challenging them right now will do any good for anyone.
I don't know about international laws, but in US husband and wife are two different legal entities. Meaning my wife cannot do anything with an account under my name.
I don't know about international laws, but in US husband and wife are two different legal entities. Meaning my wife cannot do anything with an account under my name.
Jump to: