gambling for fun vs gambling for the financial benefit. - page 4.

Dewi Aries

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Quote from: Westinhome on February 15, 2024, 04:01:44 PM

Quote from: Dewi Aries on February 15, 2024, 09:09:33 AM

I think you or we cannot rule out the fact that actually happens in gambling where most people or gamblers make gambling a place to earn, or simply they always prioritize winning in every bet, I understand that whoever it is that even though they come just for entertainment but still they will never refuse the name of victory but maybe the difference is that there are some gamblers who are too pushy to win and there are also those who wait with patience and maybe you also already know the two types of gamblers that I mentioned.

The gambler who want to earn money from the gambling site,need to increase their skill in the gambling site.The winning money in the gambling site can be increased based on their ability to make money from the same gambling site.The gambler with huge money mostly consider the gambling as the entertainment,because they doesn’t need any money to make them rich.Because they are rich already,this was the reason the rich gamblers easily increased their skill in the gambling site using their money to gambling site.The gamblers who want to multiple the money mostly take the big risk will leads to the big loss.

If they are involved in sports betting then yes maybe I would agree with your idea that they need to improve their skills and knowledge about the world of sports because indeed this is also quite helpful for you to get closer to the possibility of winning but what we should not ignore is that no matter how and where you gamble there is still the possibility of losing, or that means you can never avoid the possibility of losing even if you are very skilled. Yes, it is quite reasonable that it is very unlikely for gamblers who have a rich background to have a mindset of earning in gambling, as you said that they are already in a good financial situation and already have their own way of making money for sure so this is enough to be used as an excuse that most likely the rich make gambling just for leisure time to get entertainment, and this means that the financial situation is enough to influence a person's mindset in terms of addressing gambling, simply put, people who have below average finances are more likely to make gambling a place to earn which is actually a very wrong idea.

Richbased

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Quote from: Hewlet on January 26, 2024, 10:05:07 AM

Do you really see gambling as more of fun than a means to a financial end?

how much can you put into gambling before it removes the fun aspect of gambling out of it?

Gambling for fun as most gamblers are being advised is just so that in a case of losses the gambler wouldn't feel the impact because he already had it in mind that he may win or he may not win thereby he is willing to accept whatever outcome that surfaces but in a normal sense, almost every one hope to win in their quest to have fun while gambling because only then can the fun be completed because winning is now involved and moreover, regardless of the fact that we ought to gamble for fun, no one would completely be happy that they are playing gambling and incurring too many losses that's just the gospel truth.

When one incurs too many losses in gambling i don't think there is any fun in it anymore.

gunhell16

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Quote from: Hewlet on January 26, 2024, 10:05:07 AM

I have read a lot of thread on this board talking about the need to gamble responsibly and suggesting that gambling is meant to be done for fun and not to be seen as a means of livelihood. While this is theoretically alright, in the reality so many persons actually gamble because they want to get some financial top up from the gamble.

What is mostly common in my neighborhood and that I mostly do is soccer betting and if I am not exaggerating, 90% of the people that do soccer betting do do because they want to win money.

They can watch the match for fun but as long as it involved them paying money before gambling, most persons don't normally see it as fun and this is the reason why after placing a particular bet, if the game isn't successful they continue betting hoping to get a win along the way thervy being seen as addict.

Do you really see gambling as more of fun than a means to a financial end?

how much can you put into gambling before it removes the fun aspect of gambling out of it?

I think we can both benefit from them because when I play just for fun, I enjoy it. But there are also times that, even though my pursuit or intention in gambling is just for fun, there are also times when it is inevitable that I also win by playing gambling.

But for others, of course, it provides benefits because they treat this source of income like a job, although for me, gambling does not really provide a stable income, so I only do it for fun.

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Quote from: Sanugarid on February 14, 2024, 06:20:40 PM

I agree with what you said, it's better that you play gambling for fun than you play gambling to make money. It is difficult to make gambling a source of income because we know that there is no certainty in gambling whether you will win or lose. The first thing that will happen to you is that your money will run out, you will become addicted to gambling etc. You will not get rich immediately from gambling always remember that so don't be serious about gambling, just play according to your budget and have fun. It's really tempting when you often win gambling, but you have to control yourself because it's not always like that, it's rare to win big in gambling.

Gambling for fun has always been better as against gambling for the purpose of making money because in the end you don't make good profit if you are not lucky enough, you mostly only break even if you are lucky or in most cases you even end up loosing more money because gambling has never been a sure way of making money as it's always been a 50/50 chances of winning so it's always much better you put your mind to making it just fun rather than hoping to make money from it so you don't get to suffer from losses when they occur.

The problem lays with most gamblers as they don't want to gamble just for fun, they mostly want to make money gambling and that's something that's almost not really possible except with lucky few who happens to make some good money gambling.

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Quote from: Westinhome on February 15, 2024, 04:01:44 PM

Quote from: Dewi Aries on February 15, 2024, 09:09:33 AM

I think you or we cannot rule out the fact that actually happens in gambling where most people or gamblers make gambling a place to earn, or simply they always prioritize winning in every bet, I understand that whoever it is that even though they come just for entertainment but still they will never refuse the name of victory but maybe the difference is that there are some gamblers who are too pushy to win and there are also those who wait with patience and maybe you also already know the two types of gamblers that I mentioned.

The gambler who want to earn money from the gambling site,need to increase their skill in the gambling site.The winning money in the gambling site can be increased based on their ability to make money from the same gambling site.The gambler with huge money mostly consider the gambling as the entertainment,because they doesn’t need any money to make them rich.Because they are rich already,this was the reason the rich gamblers easily increased their skill in the gambling site using their money to gambling site.The gamblers who want to multiple the money mostly take the big risk will leads to the big loss.

It depends on what type of rich gambler you are referring to, because not all gambler with huge bank roll is rich. Most people may have won money in gambling that made them high rollers, yet not rich. The rich people are very few, and not a huge number of them engage into gambling. However, the few of them who are gamblers, don't care about the money anymore. Because, as you said, they are already rich and have some money. But money has no limit, everyone still looks out for more money. And that could differentiate the rich people, into two parts. Those who still want to win big, and the other who don't care about whether they win money or not. Hence, the rich can still be in the side of wanting to win more money. Because human is insatiable. It all has to do with the gambler's thoughts and behavior. Regardless of whether he's rich or not.

dansus021

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Quote from: len01 on February 07, 2024, 05:59:08 AM

emotional, greedy, overconfident are common traits that often dominate a gambler's mind and take over his mind and lose control to continue betting with the assumption that he will win big again.
anyone will experience the same thing when a gambler gets a big win it is very rare for a gambler to get a big win and then stop and withdraw his money, that is very rare and usually they will definitely keep betting at least 3 to 4 times to see if there is a lucky streak.

It's hard to stop when you win, but if you can do it I think you have very disciplined principles and usually have limits in betting so that you firmly decide to stop betting when you win and leave gambling for a moment to enjoy the winnings.
this is fun gambling that should be used happily and when we win we should stop and enjoy the winnings and come back again after we have more money.

All those feeling something is just messed up my good feeling especially when all of the bad feeling combined I just want to break things hahaha. You actually very true it really hard to stop when you win especially if you win big and you win after go all in the greed is like trying to take control all over my body haha.

Quote from: Jody.Drummer on February 07, 2024, 07:58:38 AM

Yes, it is a situation that most gamblers are fooled by their own feelings, they always prioritize satisfaction and one of them is like doing all this again even though basically they have managed to get a win, even though on the other hand the possibility of defeat will continue to exist and lurk them in every situation and condition so that this is the reason or cause why in the end you experience defeat in the sense that all the results at the end of the session do not match what you expected.

So this is the importance of maintaining awareness when you are gambling, the fact is that even if you manage to get a win but on the other hand it is not a really good situation for you if you basically have not succeeded or have not agreed with yourself to cash out, as I said earlier because it is not easy to ignore greed when a gambler is in such a situation. The main point and what can be a solution is that you must be able to apply firmness to consciousness when you are gambling, because with a good level of consciousness then when you manage to get a win you will be able to decide to cash out because you remember that the possibility of losing is still very possible.

Yeah right I thought I only feel that but turned out you and me had same feeling hahaha. But now after I win I just withdraw all my winning money or my initial deposit because it is the cheapest and the safest way to avoid unnecessary loss.

Orpichukwu

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The majority of people are gambling for the financial benefit that they expect to get from gambling. In fact, if you check the rapid growth in the gambling industry among youth and if you walk up to them to ask a question with respect to their reasons for getting involved in gambling, you will be amazed by the kind of responses that you will get from them.

Some of the reasons why most people can't see the fun part of gambling are as a result of them being blinded by what they could only get from it, and they get addicted to it as a result of getting too greedy and having too much expectation, which most times means they never get to achieve what they want from gambling.

panganib999

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Quote from: Hewlet on January 26, 2024, 10:05:07 AM

I have read a lot of thread on this board talking about the need to gamble responsibly and suggesting that gambling is meant to be done for fun and not to be seen as a means of livelihood. While this is theoretically alright, in the reality so many persons actually gamble because they want to get some financial top up from the gamble.

What is mostly common in my neighborhood and that I mostly do is soccer betting and if I am not exaggerating, 90% of the people that do soccer betting do do because they want to win money.

They can watch the match for fun but as long as it involved them paying money before gambling, most persons don't normally see it as fun and this is the reason why after placing a particular bet, if the game isn't successful they continue betting hoping to get a win along the way thervy being seen as addict.

Do you really see gambling as more of fun than a means to a financial end?

how much can you put into gambling before it removes the fun aspect of gambling out of it?

The thing is that getting money while you're gambling is definitely a good thing, but it's not where you can solely find fun and entertainment when you gamble. Gambling for entertainment being one of the biggest ways for us to really have fun even when we're losing money. We do this by hardwiring our brain into looking into other avenues/aspects in the world of gambling that we deem entertaining or fun to say the least. I personally find entertainment when I make risky but calculated bets, the adrenaline rush of having to put down ludicrous amounts of money is what gets me going when I gamble now compared to chasing impossible wins when I'm still starting as a young gambler.

Thus far, compared to when I was chasing wins I have a relatively slower rate at which I burn through my bankroll, clearly indicating that even if you're gambling for the adrenaline rush and the high you're still better off as compared to if you're gambling for profit.

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Quote from: Westinhome on February 15, 2024, 04:01:44 PM

Quote from: Dewi Aries on February 15, 2024, 09:09:33 AM

I think you or we cannot rule out the fact that actually happens in gambling where most people or gamblers make gambling a place to earn, or simply they always prioritize winning in every bet, I understand that whoever it is that even though they come just for entertainment but still they will never refuse the name of victory but maybe the difference is that there are some gamblers who are too pushy to win and there are also those who wait with patience and maybe you also already know the two types of gamblers that I mentioned.

The gambler who want to earn money from the gambling site,need to increase their skill in the gambling site.The winning money in the gambling site can be increased based on their ability to make money from the same gambling site.The gambler with huge money mostly consider the gambling as the entertainment,because they doesn’t need any money to make them rich.Because they are rich already,this was the reason the rich gamblers easily increased their skill in the gambling site using their money to gambling site.The gamblers who want to multiple the money mostly take the big risk will leads to the big loss.

but do remember, if you are into luck-based games, don't ever expect that you will be on the winning side after you call it a day. even if you have tons of money and you are playing dice or roulette or any other casino classics, you won't go home as a sure winner.

even if you increase your skills in those games of chance, i don't think you will regularly win on this type of game. i can understand if you are into poker or sportsbetting. the longer years you have as experience, the better chance for you to really earn some good money.

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Quote from: Dewi Aries on February 15, 2024, 09:09:33 AM

I think you or we cannot rule out the fact that actually happens in gambling where most people or gamblers make gambling a place to earn, or simply they always prioritize winning in every bet, I understand that whoever it is that even though they come just for entertainment but still they will never refuse the name of victory but maybe the difference is that there are some gamblers who are too pushy to win and there are also those who wait with patience and maybe you also already know the two types of gamblers that I mentioned.

The gambler who want to earn money from the gambling site,need to increase their skill in the gambling site.The winning money in the gambling site can be increased based on their ability to make money from the same gambling site.The gambler with huge money mostly consider the gambling as the entertainment,because they doesn’t need any money to make them rich.Because they are rich already,this was the reason the rich gamblers easily increased their skill in the gambling site using their money to gambling site.The gamblers who want to multiple the money mostly take the big risk will leads to the big loss.

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Quote from: Westinhome on February 14, 2024, 06:35:06 PM

Quote from: Mia Chloe on February 14, 2024, 04:42:11 PM

Gambling is supposed to be a game of fun but unfortunately a lot of persons take it to be a source of finance which is logically wrong. Yes gambling arguably can be tempting to be a source of income especially when you tend to make multiple wins consecutively which could make one feel the need to take more days off work since you have become richer at an easier pace. The core reason people should not take gambling as a financial source is because people tend to be very serious when it comes to their finance which of course us their main income source.
Now if gambling becomes a source of income you will tend to gamble more so logically you could win more and most of the time this could end badly and even lead to a nasty addiction in some cases.

Not lot of person,almost all the people use the gambling for making entertainment.The first thing need to understand is the gambler should betting based on the wallet,but many gamblers bet above their holding with the overconfidence.If the algorithm of the gambling site was changed the entire money will be leads to the loss.The gamblers who want to make money should use of the small and reasonable betting based on the holding money.Gradually increase your wallet balance will able to keep the strong wallet.If you increase your wallet by making the random betting money,the same money will be loss from the random money betting.

Yes, this is what the calculation is made for, that the player to some extent plays not only against the casino and other players, but also against himself, his psychology. And often it seems to him that he will win a little and leave, but in practice this does not work out. The player continues, this may be due to the fact that he wants to win even more money, trying to realize his plans to make money. Or for fun, trying to show how much of an expert he is in this area, to prove it to himself or to show off to his friends. These two scenarios will not lead to success in most cases, because these two players will not be able to stop at the right moment. I would like to note that players stop more often for fun, because they take the game more lightly, which also allows them to avoid critical mistakes in behavior and play. This player probably loses less.

Dewi Aries

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Quote from: Westinhome on February 14, 2024, 06:35:06 PM

Quote from: Mia Chloe on February 14, 2024, 04:42:11 PM

Gambling is supposed to be a game of fun but unfortunately a lot of persons take it to be a source of finance which is logically wrong. Yes gambling arguably can be tempting to be a source of income especially when you tend to make multiple wins consecutively which could make one feel the need to take more days off work since you have become richer at an easier pace. The core reason people should not take gambling as a financial source is because people tend to be very serious when it comes to their finance which of course us their main income source.
Now if gambling becomes a source of income you will tend to gamble more so logically you could win more and most of the time this could end badly and even lead to a nasty addiction in some cases.

Not lot of person,almost all the people use the gambling for making entertainment.The first thing need to understand is the gambler should betting based on the wallet,but many gamblers bet above their holding with the overconfidence.If the algorithm of the gambling site was changed the entire money will be leads to the loss.The gamblers who want to make money should use of the small and reasonable betting based on the holding money.Gradually increase your wallet balance will able to keep the strong wallet.If you increase your wallet by making the random betting money,the same money will be loss from the random money betting.

I think you or we cannot rule out the fact that actually happens in gambling where most people or gamblers make gambling a place to earn, or simply they always prioritize winning in every bet, I understand that whoever it is that even though they come just for entertainment but still they will never refuse the name of victory but maybe the difference is that there are some gamblers who are too pushy to win and there are also those who wait with patience and maybe you also already know the two types of gamblers that I mentioned.

On the other hand of course what else you said is true about betting according to our abilities or meaning not overdoing it and only spending money that we can afford to lose because this is the approach that is always recommended in gambling which is full of uncertainties, and I think it is an inappropriate idea to say or allow anyone to bring the idea of earning in gambling, even if you only bring a small amount but still the mindset of "earning" should be avoided because I am sure that over time they will think of increasing the amount of bets in order to make bigger winnings, and so it is more appropriate to simply think that gambling is only for fun and limit all your gambling activities.

EarnOnVictor

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Quote from: Westinhome on February 11, 2024, 05:47:31 PM

Quote from: Promocodeudo on February 11, 2024, 05:41:18 AM

It is impossible for someone to have fun in watching a match that he has bets on, such person will have anxiety and one sided in support, at this point what he cares about is his bet depend on his options, so, it is very much true that people can have fun in a game that they place bet on, football is a game of fun though, but having fun and beating at this same time can ruin your fun, when you are gambling supporting a team as a fan is not obtainable unless you make a strict decision not bet on your favourite team but if you do, there is no way you can enjoy such game, if you notice very well people don't openly support team that much again because of gambling.

The gambler mostly like to watch the games of the other gamblers with their experience.Because the gamblers who had a sufficient knowledge alone not a successful gamblers in the gambling site.It was more essential one for the gambler to increase the game by watching the matches of the others because every one had their own style of the game.So the game can be learned by the gamblers who play in the future game.So the gambling was based on the player experiences and their skills will give their more money by playing more interesting.

I am surprised about what you just said here, or maybe you didn't explain well for me to fully understand. Did you mean such a gambler is not sure of himself or what? I can't seriously comprehend this because we should not be relying on other people for our gambling activity. Good, we can learn from others to know how they do it if we know they are good or better than us, but being dependent on them is not what I like, it could also cause issues like confusion and regret at times. This is particularly true if we've already had our games set but because we peep at what the supposed better gamblers were doing, we now change our options and might be the wrong options we changed to, which hurts.

I believe that gamblers should have their own minds and expertise, this will make them lose proudly and not that some certain people will cause the loss of their money for them. This is what pains me most, and ever in my gambling life, I've never played based on other people's advice. If the worst comes to be worst, I would rather give them the money to play on my behalf. I've done the latter times without a number and those who I'd given the money have always lost the game. This is why I do my thing by myself and it has been fine with me.

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Quote from: len01 on February 14, 2024, 09:52:29 AM

gamblers who come to have fun will always be able to limit themselves and know when is the right time to gamble because those who gamble for fun usually have critical thinking or are wiser in managing their financial budget for gambling and respect their budget to have fun later day so they will never regret even if they often lose before they stop gambling but they don't have the thought to chase those losses.

different from gamblers who come to make a profit, usually they only think about how to get a win and always try continuously to get a win, no matter how much they have lost, the most important thing is that they can get a big win like they want, but without realizing that when the longer they bet, the smaller the chance of winning because emotions will get the best of them and when they lose they will really regret it and want to chase their losses to recover the money they have lost.

that's the difference, even though I'm not a hypocrite if gamblers who are having fun also want to win, but it's just winning that they want, not the big profits they want, like gamblers who come for profit.

If gamblers can use gambling for fun, they will be able to find that pleasure from gambling and will limit themselves and know when is the right time to gamble. They will not use too much money because they already have clear limits in gambling so they will not spend too much money. They will control spending money on gambling because they know that gambling is just for fun and not to make money. If they can win from gambling, they only consider it as a bonus because they can use gambling as entertainment.

But if gamblers gamble just to make money, it will be difficult for them to make money because gambling is not a place to make money, especially when getting money is not easy. They have to use money, which may be a lot of money, even though that doesn't guarantee they can win. And if they lose, they will try to recover from their defeat and then try to win even though they will lose again. They don't have a big chance of winning the gambling game but don't want to stop gambling because they haven't won.

Yes, it is normal for people to gamble for fun but also want to win. They want to make money from gambling even though they know that it is difficult for them to win. But they can use gambling as entertainment even though they also want to win.

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Quote from: Hanadawa on February 14, 2024, 04:58:01 AM

Quote from: Hewlet on January 26, 2024, 10:05:07 AM

What is mostly common in my neighborhood and that I mostly do is soccer betting and if I am not exaggerating, 90% of the people that do soccer betting do do because they want to win money.

That's why I say that becoming a gambling addict will be very dangerous for your life and family. And people like you said, I'm sure they are people from lower and middle economic levels, right? I mean according to what I know rich and super rich people never gamble to make money. They do it just for fun.

This is a problem for most gamblers. Because there are still many people who think of gambling as a source of income. I have a friend and I think he can be an example not to get addicted. He is not a rich man. He also only bets very small amounts. And he did it just for fun and to add adrenaline while watching sports. People like him will not be addicted to gambling and will not continue to gamble. What is most necessary is to manage time and money well, and realize that gambling will be very dangerous if we are not able to control it well.

Of course, someone who is addicted to gambling will be dangerous for themselves and the people around them because people who are addicted to gambling tend to gamble for financial gain, not just to have fun because if they have fun they probably won't become addicted because of that. caused by too much pursuit of the ambition to win.
Yes, rich people are more able to enjoy gambling for fun because they already have whatever they have so they see gambling as entertainment, which is different from people in a less stable economy who think of it as making a profit.

This has become a very common problem among the gambling community and most gamblers, especially the lower middle class, consider gambling as a source of income, therefore many people gamble so they can get instant profits and that is why many people become uncontrolled when gambling because they not willing to lose their money and not produce anything and this is what triggers someone to become addicted.

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Quote from: Mia Chloe on February 14, 2024, 04:42:11 PM

Gambling is supposed to be a game of fun but unfortunately a lot of persons take it to be a source of finance which is logically wrong. Yes gambling arguably can be tempting to be a source of income especially when you tend to make multiple wins consecutively which could make one feel the need to take more days off work since you have become richer at an easier pace. The core reason people should not take gambling as a financial source is because people tend to be very serious when it comes to their finance which of course us their main income source.
Now if gambling becomes a source of income you will tend to gamble more so logically you could win more and most of the time this could end badly and even lead to a nasty addiction in some cases.

Not lot of person,almost all the people use the gambling for making entertainment.The first thing need to understand is the gambler should betting based on the wallet,but many gamblers bet above their holding with the overconfidence.If the algorithm of the gambling site was changed the entire money will be leads to the loss.The gamblers who want to make money should use of the small and reasonable betting based on the holding money.Gradually increase your wallet balance will able to keep the strong wallet.If you increase your wallet by making the random betting money,the same money will be loss from the random money betting.

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Quote from: Mia Chloe on February 14, 2024, 04:42:11 PM

Gambling is supposed to be a game of fun but unfortunately a lot of persons take it to be a source of finance which is logically wrong. Yes gambling arguably can be tempting to be a source of income especially when you tend to make multiple wins consecutively which could make one feel the need to take more days off work since you have become richer at an easier pace. The core reason people should not take gambling as a financial source is because people tend to be very serious when it comes to their finance which of course us their main income source.
Now if gambling becomes a source of income you will tend to gamble more so logically you could win more and most of the time this could end badly and even lead to a nasty addiction in some cases.

I agree with what you said, it's better that you play gambling for fun than you play gambling to make money. It is difficult to make gambling a source of income because we know that there is no certainty in gambling whether you will win or lose. The first thing that will happen to you is that your money will run out, you will become addicted to gambling etc. You will not get rich immediately from gambling always remember that so don't be serious about gambling, just play according to your budget and have fun. It's really tempting when you often win gambling, but you have to control yourself because it's not always like that, it's rare to win big in gambling.

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Quote from: Mia Chloe on February 14, 2024, 04:42:11 PM

Gambling is supposed to be a game of fun but unfortunately a lot of persons take it to be a source of finance which is logically wrong. Yes gambling arguably can be tempting to be a source of income especially when you tend to make multiple wins consecutively which could make one feel the need to take more days off work since you have become richer at an easier pace. The core reason people should not take gambling as a financial source is because people tend to be very serious when it comes to their finance which of course us their main income source.
Now if gambling becomes a source of income you will tend to gamble more so logically you could win more and most of the time this could end badly and even lead to a nasty addiction in some cases.

It should really be just that for fun but due to peoples love of money then everything that they could really be able to deal with and this would really be that totally on you on how
you would really be able to control yourself into it, people do mess up just because they have been making up those decisions which they are really that tending to go overboard
on which this is where people do mess up their lives because of having that loving on making money and not making those kind of realization that it should really be just that for fun.
Dont tend or force yourself about making money because it was never been intended for that purpose, instead you do enjoy yourself you would rather be stressful
because of too much losses.

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Gambling is supposed to be a game of fun but unfortunately a lot of persons take it to be a source of finance which is logically wrong. Yes gambling arguably can be tempting to be a source of income especially when you tend to make multiple wins consecutively which could make one feel the need to take more days off work since you have become richer at an easier pace. The core reason people should not take gambling as a financial source is because people tend to be very serious when it comes to their finance which of course us their main income source.
Now if gambling becomes a source of income you will tend to gamble more so logically you could win more and most of the time this could end badly and even lead to a nasty addiction in some cases.

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Life is too short. My first aim in everything is to enjoy this life. I don't have a lot of money. Making millions with little money seems like a dream to me. That's why I try to enjoy the game. This is the most realistic approach for me. At the end of the day, I feel that I have enjoyed myself and calmed my mind, and that is enough for me. There are people who have a lot of money but can't have these things. I think if we think we have the right approach, we can always find a way to be happy.

Topic: gambling for fun vs gambling for the financial benefit. - page 4. (Read 2317 times)