Gambling is like day trading ? - page 11.

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Quote from: Lucasgabd on April 06, 2020, 05:46:53 PM

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we should also remember that more than 90% of day traders lose money on the long run
and regarding to gamblers.... I have no idea

does anyone check these statistics?

I do not have accurate data, but if we reason from the point of view of mathematics, then the longer the distance and the greater the number of bets, the closer the number of losers will be closer to 100%. Both of these games have a negative mathematical expectation, so the result will be the same.

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Quote from: Yatsan on April 07, 2020, 01:10:04 AM

And in addition, if you are going to compare day trading to gambling, when you lose at the day trade you can just hold it and turn it into long term trading so that, if the coin pump you can take the profit. In trading you can only lose if you don't have a patience to wait for your trade to go up however, in gambling when you lose, that's it! The only way to get your money back is to bet and risk again.

That is a significant difference between gambling and trading, when you gamble you know the outcome of your bet immediately and there is no way to change it but when it comes to trading you can change the outcome by changing the amount of time you hold your coins, but while you give a positive example of this there are many other ways to convert a winning trade into a losing one, and one of the classical ways to do that is to keep holding your coins thinking the market will still go up in price and letting greed take control over the trade only to discover too late that is not the case and instead of earning money you lose it.

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Quote from: slackovic on April 06, 2020, 06:37:10 AM

I'd say that sports gambling really is like daytrading. With sports gambling you can read statistics, news and other stuff and choose a winning bet. But "normal" gambling (as in casino) is definitely not like daytrading. In daytrading you can still have support&resistance and bunch of other indicators that can help you to decide should you buy or sell. And what can tell you if you're gonna guess a number in roulette or 21 in blackjack?

Agree.
Sports betting is a game with probability, in a simplified version you will either win or not, if you do not go deep into the odds. In trading, the principle is the same; you need to guess where the trend will go.
Games against casinos are very different from the things listed above due to the fact that against the casino you will always have a negative mathematical expectation.

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Quote from: Japinat on April 06, 2020, 04:20:39 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on April 06, 2020, 04:03:23 AM

Quote from: iv4n on April 05, 2020, 08:53:22 AM

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Learn to make a difference between games, learn about games before you start playing. Bankroll management is essential for all games, all games are risky, risk level is different. Chances for win (for making profit, call it as you wish) depends on you, about your understanding of the game and how manage your money!

I too think that good money management is the key. And in this regard day trading is similar to poker, where while not risking much you are surely going to last longer, but your chances of winning big are not that big with this strategy. If you make big bets your chances of ending up in the top places increase, but the chances of being wiped out in no time increase either. You have to find a golden mean of a kind, to be successful both in trading and in poker.

The mentality of the people in trading and gambling is different.

Most gamblers does not build a good bankroll before they start gambling because they are trying their luck in turning their small capital into many folds and they think it's easy to achieve that.

While in trading, most traders start with a realistic capital because they understand that small capital won't take them to their goal.

You are talking about only a part of gamblers, and not even a major one. Most gamblers know damn well that it's not easy to win at least something, let alone winning manifold of your balance. So, gamblers too think that the higher the bankroll the better, but, on the other hand, you should be very careful with this kind of thinking. Your bankroll should never be much higher than you can easily afford to lose. And this applies to day traders too, btw.

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Quote from: Lucasgabd on April 06, 2020, 05:46:53 PM

we should also remember that more than 90% of day traders lose money on the long run
and regarding to gamblers.... I have no idea

In both gambling and trading, we know that some people can make money, but most people will lose their money. So whether we say gambling is like day trading or not, we agree that both can be the way for people who can use the knowledge to make money. And if people don't know anything about gambling or trading, they better not to do that more often because they will get the risk of losing the money.

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Quote from: kawetsriyanto on April 06, 2020, 04:38:31 PM

Quote from: skiorf on April 06, 2020, 01:30:54 PM

~ snip ~

Correct, sports gambling shouldn't be compared/equated with day trading, they are different. Day trading requires specific skills such as read charts, analyze market trends, know volatility & liquidity, set targets, understand the use of "stop losses", etc. While sports gambling doesn't require many skills as the day trading, you just read historical data (as you said) and try to guess.

And in addition, if you are going to compare day trading to gambling, when you lose at the day trade you can just hold it and turn it into long term trading so that, if the coin pump you can take the profit. In trading you can only lose if you don't have a patience to wait for your trade to go up however, in gambling when you lose, that's it! The only way to get your money back is to bet and risk again.

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Quote from: Lucasgabd on April 06, 2020, 05:46:53 PM

Quote from: kawetsriyanto on April 06, 2020, 04:38:31 PM

Quote from: skiorf on April 06, 2020, 01:30:54 PM

~ snip ~

Correct, sports gambling shouldn't be compared/equated with day trading, they are different. Day trading requires specific skills such as read charts, analyze market trends, know volatility & liquidity, set targets, understand the use of "stop losses", etc. While sports gambling doesn't require many skills as the day trading, you just read historical data (as you said) and try to guess.

we should also remember that more than 90% of day traders lose money on the long run
and regarding to gamblers.... I have no idea

does anyone check these statistics?

Where did you find that kind of statistics? But maybe I'll agree to you that onle few day traders are having consistency in the market due to the volatility. I cannot find any similarities between day trading and gambling except it is both risky. I am both gambler and trader and the approaches are really different to each other so I cannot say thats gambling is like day trading.

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Quote from: slackovic on April 06, 2020, 06:37:10 AM

I'd say that sports gambling really is like daytrading. With sports gambling you can read statistics, news and other stuff and choose a winning bet. But "normal" gambling (as in casino) is definitely not like daytrading. In daytrading you can still have support&resistance and bunch of other indicators that can help you to decide should you buy or sell. And what can tell you if you're gonna guess a number in roulette or 21 in blackjack?

I totally agree with you on that sports betting is like day trading. I actually have been using sports betting to increase my Ethereum stack the past 6 months and it has been working out great until almost all sports have shut down due to the corona virus. I have been very successful betting on sports games in live play which is very much like day trading as we can check the stats and see how a team is performing during the game before placing a bet so I have found this very similar to day trading.

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Quote from: kawetsriyanto on April 06, 2020, 04:38:31 PM

Quote from: skiorf on April 06, 2020, 01:30:54 PM

~ snip ~

Correct, sports gambling shouldn't be compared/equated with day trading, they are different. Day trading requires specific skills such as read charts, analyze market trends, know volatility & liquidity, set targets, understand the use of "stop losses", etc. While sports gambling doesn't require many skills as the day trading, you just read historical data (as you said) and try to guess.

we should also remember that more than 90% of day traders lose money on the long run
and regarding to gamblers.... I have no idea

does anyone check these statistics?

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Quote from: skiorf on April 06, 2020, 01:30:54 PM

~ snip ~

Correct, sports gambling shouldn't be compared/equated with day trading, they are different. Day trading requires specific skills such as read charts, analyze market trends, know volatility & liquidity, set targets, understand the use of "stop losses", etc. While sports gambling doesn't require many skills as the day trading, you just read historical data (as you said) and try to guess.

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Quote from: swogerino on April 06, 2020, 06:20:16 AM

In both cases you are predicting the future.Which in itself it implies high risk as no one can predict the future.It is the same as day trading because in both cases you can read news about events and you can even talk to other people in forex forums so you can analyze things before betting,in this sense it is almost the same as day trading.

You are right. If we use wide-known information this does not give us any advantage. Even if our analisis is more effective tnan that of other market participants, we still have a zero impact on the price compared to the croud. In the end we are dealing with a random process that we cannot predict. So i think that this compraision is true (daytrading/gambling).

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Quote from: philanthropist67 on March 16, 2020, 05:28:18 AM

We know that day trading or short time trading is like playing with wild fire, not may can handle it. That's y most player's end up in loss and very few are successful day traders.
Is that hold true for gambling also?
There are posts here that gambling is addiction and how to get rid of.
Are there gamblers here who are in profit overall?

Well, we can change our luck in trading just by increasing our trade interval from day trade to weekly trade and hence we might perhaps land up in profits in trading but we can't actually change our luck in gambling. Gambling can eat up most of our profits if we do not assume gambling carefully. But yes, I liked the concept that day trading might be equal to gambling. Gambling means to try our luck onto some game and minor times to imply few strategies & the same rolls up for day trading as well atleast in crypto day trading due to the high volatile nature.

Most might end up loosing but a few would fill their pockets with profits much faster than anyone else. Even doubling their initial capital in just a day would be easier for such people.

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Quote from: Slow death on April 06, 2020, 01:03:01 PM

Quote from: slackovic on April 06, 2020, 06:37:10 AM

I'd say that sports gambling really is like daytrading. With sports gambling you can read statistics, news and other stuff and choose a winning bet. But "normal" gambling (as in casino) is definitely not like daytrading. In daytrading you can still have support&resistance and bunch of other indicators that can help you to decide should you buy or sell. And what can tell you if you're gonna guess a number in roulette or 21 in blackjack?

as I said in the last post, in my opinion the most important difference between gambling and daytrade is in the fact that in day trade people have the option of using Stop-Loss which allows them to reduce losses while game of chance when the person bets Is wins or loses, there is no longer any way for the person in the middle of the game to minimize losses. when I started making sports betting that was the main difference that I realized

Well, actually there is a chance for a person who is betting on sport matches to minimize his losses. For example, if you choose 10 pairs and win 6 or 7 of them, plenty of betting sites offer to forfeit other games and collect what you won so far. I think we can compare that to a stop-loss in daytrading.

Quote from: skiorf on April 06, 2020, 01:30:54 PM

Quote from: slackovic on April 06, 2020, 06:37:10 AM

I'd say that sports gambling really is like daytrading. With sports gambling you can read statistics, news and other stuff and choose a winning bet. ~snip~

However sports gambling cannot be equated with daily trading, even if you have to look at statistics like sports gambling, because in trading you must use real analysis such as mounting indicators. Whereas sports gambling as you mean just guesses based on historical data from previous matches.

Sports gambling is not just guessing based on historical data. Person who is betting can have info on an injury of a key player for some team. Or he can take a look at the table and see that a better team doesn't need a win and that can too be good info for betting.

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Quote from: slackovic on April 06, 2020, 06:37:10 AM

I'd say that sports gambling really is like daytrading. With sports gambling you can read statistics, news and other stuff and choose a winning bet. ~snip~

However sports gambling cannot be equated with daily trading, even if you have to look at statistics like sports gambling, because in trading you must use real analysis such as mounting indicators. Whereas sports gambling as you mean just guesses based on historical data from previous matches.

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Quote from: slackovic on April 06, 2020, 06:37:10 AM

I'd say that sports gambling really is like daytrading. With sports gambling you can read statistics, news and other stuff and choose a winning bet. But "normal" gambling (as in casino) is definitely not like daytrading. In daytrading you can still have support&resistance and bunch of other indicators that can help you to decide should you buy or sell. And what can tell you if you're gonna guess a number in roulette or 21 in blackjack?

as I said in the last post, in my opinion the most important difference between gambling and daytrade is in the fact that in day trade people have the option of using Stop-Loss which allows them to reduce losses while game of chance when the person bets Is wins or loses, there is no longer any way for the person in the middle of the game to minimize losses. when I started making sports betting that was the main difference that I realized

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Quote from: yazher on April 05, 2020, 06:06:06 AM

Quote from: Polar91 on April 05, 2020, 02:53:41 AM

Definitely not. The way how they work is different from one another. If you'll understand the principle of gambling, it's pure luck based. Thus, there is really no professional here. You can't help yourself from losing in gambling if your luck isn't favorable of you but to stop. Meanwhile in day trading, you might lose continuously but you can be professional there with decent experiences and knowledges of course.

This is the right definition of day trading in its sense. When you are a gambler for 40 years all of your winnings are coming from your own luck, not your skills. Whenever you put your money on the table, you only waiting for the unknown results. Whether you win or lose, it's all about luck. On the other hand, Day trading will give you tremendous experiences in the long run which will become a skill after so many day trading you had through the years.

While what you are saying it is true there is one big problem very few people accumulate as much experience as day traders, and the reason is that most people that try to day trade are newbies that are going to lose all their money in less than a year, and the few successful traders that can make money in the markets that way give up after a few years since it is very stressful to watch the markets every day for years without rest and prefer to become swing traders or position traders.

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Quote from: panganib999 on April 06, 2020, 06:34:29 AM

Quote from: FontSeli on April 06, 2020, 04:27:53 AM

Quote from: TopT3ns on April 05, 2020, 11:16:21 AM

if you gamble it will not be as easy as you imagine because when you lose your assets will disappear instantly and it will make poor instantly and cannot be equated with daily trading, whereas if daily trading when you are trapped then what changes is only the estimated value of your assets due to the influence of falling prices at the exchange place and can recover when prices rise, better and safer trading than gambling.

It all depends on how and what you trade. You can trade high-risk tokens that can bring more than 200% profit, but can also fall in price by the same amount.
You can also engage in margin trading with very high leverage, and there, too, you can lose all your money in a short period of time.

This is the 'mindgame' present to both gambling and trading. One could win in a single trade likewise a spin, perhaps, in a roulette to give an example. In both ways, there are chances of losing your money, and the same thing of earning money from doing so. The best thing is to know that profit is not assured to avoid drawbacks when it comes to one's mental condition because that would be worse than losing money.

I doubt that someone in an adequate state starts trading on the crypto market and thinks that they are not risking anything. However, I personally see trading as a way to make money. Because it is much easier to calculate everything and choose the least risky strategy.
I see gambling as a way to have a good time and spend money.

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It could be both of them needs luck is some ways but not actually it means that they are closely similar to each other.
A trading strategy is a bit different from what we use in gambling and it is really at high risk but in some way that we can recover our losses unlike what it possible to happen in gambling. While gambling is purely a base luck game, may having strategies and expertise (just like in ball games) may help but in the end, we still need the luck to have a big chance to win.

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Quote from: mirakal on April 06, 2020, 08:24:43 AM

And compared to the crypto market, when people think there are whales who would manipulate the price, in sports gambling there are also sharks who can move the line, they also use their power because they are smart like the whales.

What do you mean by this? If you look at a football match, how can a shark "move the line"? You mean that a shark is someone who pays someone to lose the game? I know that happens but it's illegal. Whales in crypto are not illegal. They are just people with a lot of money (or crypto) that can turn the market in their advantage.

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Quote from: slackovic on April 06, 2020, 06:37:10 AM

I'd say that sports gambling really is like daytrading. With sports gambling you can read statistics, news and other stuff and choose a winning bet. But "normal" gambling (as in casino) is definitely not like daytrading. In daytrading you can still have support&resistance and bunch of other indicators that can help you to decide should you buy or sell.

That's right, we have a lot of factors to consider when we are trading and sports betting.
And compared to the crypto market, when people think there are whales who would manipulate the price, in sports gambling there are also sharks who can move the line, they also use their power because they are smart like the whales.

there's no fair market for both, it will always depend on the risk takers on how smart they are.

Quote from: slackovic on April 06, 2020, 06:37:10 AM

And what can tell you if you're gonna guess a number in roulette or 21 in blackjack?

That's based on luck.

Topic: Gambling is like day trading ? - page 11. (Read 2876 times)