Gambling is like day trading ? - page 8.

JohnBitCo

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Quote from: Janation on May 03, 2020, 01:53:04 AM

Quote from: Nissan-GTR on April 23, 2020, 10:09:36 PM

I do not think that gambling is like trading, sure they are similar with risk but that is the only similarities they have, the big difference is that day trading has a return of investment while gambling obviously do not have.

I agree with you but it is not the return of investment.

It is not that we always lose in gambling, we do, in the short run. In the long run, it is either we are getting back our money or we are just losing. Mostly we lose in the long run. In terms of return of investment, we can't always do that in day trading since we can lose there. There is a higher risk of losing in day trading since with the fast-changing market, we don't know what will happen.

From your point of view, we lose in gambling and trading both in the long term and short term. This may be true for gambling but i do not agree that day traders will be on the losing side. Also note that those who are day traders, they only do day trading with certain portion of their money and they also do regular trading which gives them steady profit also.

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Quote from: Nissan-GTR on April 23, 2020, 10:09:36 PM

I do not think that gambling is like trading, sure they are similar with risk but that is the only similarities they have, the big difference is that day trading has a return of investment while gambling obviously do not have.

I agree with you but it is not the return of investment.

It is not that we always lose in gambling, we do, in the short run. In the long run, it is either we are getting back our money or we are just losing. Mostly we lose in the long run. In terms of return of investment, we can't always do that in day trading since we can lose there. There is a higher risk of losing in day trading since with the fast-changing market, we don't know what will happen.

JohnBitCo

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Quote from: TheUltraElite on May 03, 2020, 01:15:00 AM

Quote from: 3meek on April 18, 2020, 05:37:03 AM

The conclusions are that day trading and gambling lead to losses! Here everything depends on luck, and nothing else! I'm not comparing trading with sports betting or poker, I'm talking about casino... Wink

Sports betting and poker come under the casino too. Be specific! Grin

Day trading is also a 50-50 win loss game. You can have some stocks that you buy sell and make profit because you know its trends but it is tough to find such because you need to monitor them everyday and read charts, lot of works for those who are trying to get rich quick and so they dont go for it but attempt dice games where they eventually lose and thus have the mindset that day trading is also gambling, which is not completely correct.

Quote

Skills can help when trading for weeks or months, but intraday trading is not subject to technical analysis! I'm talking about it because I was losing my money trading intraday! Grin

Because you lost money on intraday does not mean that TA has no part in it. The two are completely different statements. You can make or lose money but gambling on EV- will be a loss without any doubt. Gambling on EV+ games have a chance of winning by skills.

There are some people who are doing day trading and earning good money. This is because they are very experienced in trading. If you are expert in trading and reading charts, day trading better suited to you. Casino games and gambling are totally risky for the newbies as well as for the experienced gamblers.

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Quote from: 3meek on April 18, 2020, 05:37:03 AM

The conclusions are that day trading and gambling lead to losses! Here everything depends on luck, and nothing else! I'm not comparing trading with sports betting or poker, I'm talking about casino... Wink

Sports betting and poker come under the casino too. Be specific! Grin

Day trading is also a 50-50 win loss game. You can have some stocks that you buy sell and make profit because you know its trends but it is tough to find such because you need to monitor them everyday and read charts, lot of works for those who are trying to get rich quick and so they dont go for it but attempt dice games where they eventually lose and thus have the mindset that day trading is also gambling, which is not completely correct.

Quote

Skills can help when trading for weeks or months, but intraday trading is not subject to technical analysis! I'm talking about it because I was losing my money trading intraday! Grin

Because you lost money on intraday does not mean that TA has no part in it. The two are completely different statements. You can make or lose money but gambling on EV- will be a loss without any doubt. Gambling on EV+ games have a chance of winning by skills.

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Quote from: finaleshot2016 on April 24, 2020, 12:04:56 PM

Quote from: johhnyUA on April 24, 2020, 11:03:31 AM

Quote from: Danslip on April 23, 2020, 06:10:53 PM

For example, I know 3 traders personally who make a living with the profit of the forex trading. The long term spot forex market traders analyze the macroeconomic trends and join before anyone else. There is an edge on long term-swing trading, what about the gambling?

Are you sure that they are "traders"? Not investors? Or people which selling their "insides" to others?

I think they should be called investors as for living in long-term trading. Traders aren't living in the concept of long-term since they are continuously tracking the stocks and holding it for a short period of time. Buy and hold principle is for investors.

Ah, understood. Of course this is not "traders" which i was talked about.

Quote from: finaleshot2016 on April 24, 2020, 12:04:56 PM

Quote from: seleme on April 24, 2020, 07:52:03 AM

In trading, the losses should be smaller than wins like in gambling but there is a difference: Traders can use stop loss and limit orders for managing the risk/reward. Gamblers are emotional which makes them weak, traders don't need to make an instant decision because the trading position can go back to the green zone after staying in the red zone for a long time.

Yes, in gambling if you lose, it's very huge depends on the amount you bet. While in trading, there are loses but minimal only since it requires timing to avoid huge income loss.

Traders are emotional too, it depends on person.
Gamblers risk management in his head, but he still have it.
Only bolded text is true.

Also, with short position your potential loss (if you for example do not make stop loss) is endless. Like in gambling tho

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Quote from: johhnyUA on April 24, 2020, 11:03:31 AM

Quote from: Danslip on April 23, 2020, 06:10:53 PM

For example, I know 3 traders personally who make a living with the profit of the forex trading. The long term spot forex market traders analyze the macroeconomic trends and join before anyone else. There is an edge on long term-swing trading, what about the gambling?

Are you sure that they are "traders"? Not investors? Or people which selling their "insides" to others?

I think they should be called investors as for living in long-term trading. Traders aren't living in the concept of long-term since they are continuously tracking the stocks and holding it for a short period of time. Buy and hold principle is for investors.

Quote from: seleme on April 24, 2020, 07:52:03 AM

Quote from: Google+ on April 23, 2020, 11:12:48 PM

Quote from: Nissan-GTR on April 23, 2020, 10:09:36 PM

I do not think that gambling is like trading, sure they are similar with risk but that is the only similarities they have, the big difference is that day trading has a return of investment while gambling obviously do not have.

yes of course gambling is very different from trading, when you trade and the price falls then the only change is the estimated value of your assets whose value can recover when the price has recovered, whereas if you gamble and you lose then your assets will not be able to return again because the armpit is gone it will forever be gone.

In trading, the losses should be smaller than wins like in gambling but there is a difference: Traders can use stop loss and limit orders for managing the risk/reward. Gamblers are emotional which makes them weak, traders don't need to make an instant decision because the trading position can go back to the green zone after staying in the red zone for a long time.

Yes, in gambling if you lose, it's very huge depends on the amount you bet. While in trading, there are loses but minimal only since it requires timing to avoid huge income loss.

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Quote from: Danslip on April 23, 2020, 06:10:53 PM

For example, I know 3 traders personally who make a living with the profit of the forex trading. The long term spot forex market traders analyze the macroeconomic trends and join before anyone else. There is an edge on long term-swing trading, what about the gambling?

Are you sure that they are "traders"? Not investors? Or people which selling their "insides" to others?

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Quote from: Google+ on April 23, 2020, 11:12:48 PM

Quote from: Nissan-GTR on April 23, 2020, 10:09:36 PM

I do not think that gambling is like trading, sure they are similar with risk but that is the only similarities they have, the big difference is that day trading has a return of investment while gambling obviously do not have.

yes of course gambling is very different from trading, when you trade and the price falls then the only change is the estimated value of your assets whose value can recover when the price has recovered, whereas if you gamble and you lose then your assets will not be able to return again because the armpit is gone it will forever be gone.

In trading, the losses should be smaller than wins like in gambling but there is a difference: Traders can use stop loss and limit orders for managing the risk/reward. Gamblers are emotional which makes them weak, traders don't need to make an instant decision because the trading position can go back to the green zone after staying in the red zone for a long time.

Quote from: Japinat on April 18, 2020, 04:41:27 AM

Quote from: lienfaye on April 18, 2020, 01:47:11 AM

Indeed, it has similarities but the way to gain is totally different. Gambling usually doesnt require skills, if you know the game then you can start to play and in order to win you need to become lucky. However there are some games that if you have a knowledge its an edge to predict who might win (e.g. sports betting).

you answered it well, it does not require skills if you are gambling for fun, but there are games like sports betting where you can get use of your skills to win. Sports betting is a skilled based type of game, anyone can start their journey as a sports bettor as it's like trading where you need to analyze.

Anyone can start the trading too but the inner line is to find your edge in trading for being successful long term trader. Gambling is always will be short term and this is the biggest disadvantage of gamblers. Knowledge factor is not the main one compared to the luck factor in gambling.

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Quote from: Nissan-GTR on April 23, 2020, 10:09:36 PM

I do not think that gambling is like trading, sure they are similar with risk but that is the only similarities they have, the big difference is that day trading has a return of investment while gambling obviously do not have.

yes of course gambling is very different from trading, when you trade and the price falls then the only change is the estimated value of your assets whose value can recover when the price has recovered, whereas if you gamble and you lose then your assets will not be able to return again because the armpit is gone it will forever be gone.

Nissan-GTR

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I do not think that gambling is like trading, sure they are similar with risk but that is the only similarities they have, the big difference is that day trading has a return of investment while gambling obviously do not have.

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Quote from: johhnyUA on April 23, 2020, 05:58:43 PM

Quote from: Heisenberg_Hunter on April 17, 2020, 05:56:31 PM

Quote from: johhnyUA on April 17, 2020, 04:37:05 PM

Result the same. Or maybe do you know traders which living by trading for long time, eh? For honest, i don't know any example. I know traders which selling signals, which selling courses or even creating movies about their life (wolf of wall street). But there noone who would live from their "main" activity.

Trading shitcoins might be completely risky and can end up with losing all your investment. So does gambling as well, it might provide us higher yield of investments or can make us lose everything. I would never argue that all the traders are gamblers, but all the gamblers at one point of time would have been traders indeed...

Only a very few of us consider gambling as a form of game or entertainment while majority of them play for immediate profits which are quite risky and can end up losing all over money... So does trading shitcoins go here, either we might end up with high profits in a short span of time or might lose our investment completely with get rich quick scams.

I'm not talking about trading shitcoins. I mean not only about them. I'm talking about day trading on any asset, like bitcoin, oil or gold. I don't know any man (or woman) which would live from this activity for a long time. For a some month or even years, maybe. But the same can be told about poker players too.

For example, I know 3 traders personally who make a living with the profit of the forex trading. The long term spot forex market traders analyze the macroeconomic trends and join before anyone else. There is an edge on long term-swing trading, what about the gambling?

Finding an edge in your life is not easy like I have compared the similar case in gambling. Not all gamblers have the same opportunity to learn the hidden secrets in gambling industry, some lucky guys already have won the huge amounts of cash. Money management is the 70% of the any working gambling strategy.

johhnyUA

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Quote from: Heisenberg_Hunter on April 17, 2020, 05:56:31 PM

Quote from: johhnyUA on April 17, 2020, 04:37:05 PM

Result the same. Or maybe do you know traders which living by trading for long time, eh? For honest, i don't know any example. I know traders which selling signals, which selling courses or even creating movies about their life (wolf of wall street). But there noone who would live from their "main" activity.

Trading shitcoins might be completely risky and can end up with losing all your investment. So does gambling as well, it might provide us higher yield of investments or can make us lose everything. I would never argue that all the traders are gamblers, but all the gamblers at one point of time would have been traders indeed...

Only a very few of us consider gambling as a form of game or entertainment while majority of them play for immediate profits which are quite risky and can end up losing all over money... So does trading shitcoins go here, either we might end up with high profits in a short span of time or might lose our investment completely with get rich quick scams.

I'm not talking about trading shitcoins. I mean not only about them. I'm talking about day trading on any asset, like bitcoin, oil or gold. I don't know any man (or woman) which would live from this activity for a long time. For a some month or even years, maybe. But the same can be told about poker players too.

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Quote from: mu_enrico on March 16, 2020, 06:44:14 AM

This is the illusion of "calculated risk" when you perform TA. Even if you are an expert on TA, you cannot have 100% confidence in your prediction. You essentially "gamble" with the unknown. However, it's different than the pure "game of chance" when the results is solely based on the algorithm. The win chances and multipliers are fixed, wherein trading, it varies.

I understand what you are trying to tell about the illusion of calculated risk but there is one advantage you can make a decision on not to sell at a loss and that is not possible with gambling and hence you really cannot compare gambling and day trading as traders are not forced to sell and that is a major difference Wink

.

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Quote from: 3meek on April 18, 2020, 02:38:33 PM

Okay, daytime trading is like playing roulette... You have a bunch of altcoins that you can buy, but only a few will bring you profit! Skills hardly work here...
It's like betting on different numbers of red and white!

They say that only 6% of traders successfully earn! How many percent of these people can be attributed to day traders?

Without analyzing the altcoin, you will end up waiting for a long time if you're lucky enough, but if you're not lucky, then you will not make any profit at all. Yes, in daily trading, you will need hard work in selecting the coin so you can have a chance to make a profit. I think that is not betting on different numbers because you already analyze which coin to buy so you might get a profit later.

I am not sure if 6% of traders successfully earn because we don't have the right info about that. But I am sure that if we can have the skill to analyze the coin, then we will be able to make a profit.

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Quote from: Japinat on April 18, 2020, 04:41:27 AM

Quote from: lienfaye on April 18, 2020, 01:47:11 AM

Indeed, it has similarities but the way to gain is totally different. Gambling usually doesnt require skills, if you know the game then you can start to play and in order to win you need to become lucky. However there are some games that if you have a knowledge its an edge to predict who might win (e.g. sports betting).

you answered it well, it does not require skills if you are gambling for fun, but there are games like sports betting where you can get use of your skills to win. Sports betting is a skilled based type of game, anyone can start their journey as a sports bettor as it's like trading where you need to analyze.

and also Gambling gives more chances if you are lucky while in Trading you must be completely skilled and with Big knowledge before truly Gains profit.

and Gambling usually a gateway to have fun and challenge while Trading mostly do for people to make a living,as i have some friend that leave their regular work to focus in Trading while the person i know lose Hos job because of gambling those are different way of not having work.

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on April 18, 2020, 12:43:51 AM

Quote from: batang_bitcoin on April 17, 2020, 11:06:15 PM

I know people who are day traders and they are living for that but it's the other way around and not in crypto. The comparison of day trading and gambling isn't vague and odd. There's really similarity for both ends but they are entirely unique on their own ways of making strategy.
How you will win your bets and same goes by for your trades.

Quote from: Lorence.xD on April 17, 2020, 10:51:42 PM

but if you take a step back and look at the bigger picture gambling doesn't have a money back guarantee, trading on the other hand ensures that you can still get the money back though you have a loss.

The logic is just the same with gambling and that's why you see gamblers taking back their losses and gamble again.

How can they bothe have similar logic?

Gambling has house edge and in trading exchanges do not. Both, use different logic, gambling platfor control the outcome and exchange depends on the community who are controlling the outcome of a trade.

They both are completely different entities. Day trading is part of trading which is done on an exchange and exchanges depend on the community of traders. The community decides how a particular asset will perform, you need different set of skills ans logic for that.

Don't go far about the house edge and the management of trading sites. The logic that I'm telling to be similar was about he mentioned about losing your trades and bets and at the same time, taking back those losses. The logic is similar right? you lose your bet and then later, you want to take it back and gamble again. And the same with trading, you lose your trades, you can recover it as well by trading again. I think the logic that I'm saying is simple and not too complicated at all.

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Quote from: Japinat on April 18, 2020, 04:41:27 AM

Quote from: lienfaye on April 18, 2020, 01:47:11 AM

Indeed, it has similarities but the way to gain is totally different. Gambling usually doesnt require skills, if you know the game then you can start to play and in order to win you need to become lucky. However there are some games that if you have a knowledge its an edge to predict who might win (e.g. sports betting).

you answered it well, it does not require skills if you are gambling for fun, but there are games like sports betting where you can get use of your skills to win. Sports betting is a skilled based type of game, anyone can start their journey as a sports bettor as it's like trading where you need to analyze.

You can combined your knowledge and your entertainment when it comes to sports gambling, as some of the gamblers who played this type of gambling are also fans of respective sports games, they are just adding the fun when they put something in the pot believing that their favorite players/teams will win and bring them the money.

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Quote from: noormcs5 on April 18, 2020, 12:44:17 PM

Quote from: Japinat on April 18, 2020, 04:41:27 AM

Quote from: lienfaye on April 18, 2020, 01:47:11 AM

Indeed, it has similarities but the way to gain is totally different. Gambling usually doesnt require skills, if you know the game then you can start to play and in order to win you need to become lucky. However there are some games that if you have a knowledge its an edge to predict who might win (e.g. sports betting).

you answered it well, it does not require skills if you are gambling for fun, but there are games like sports betting where you can get use of your skills to win. Sports betting is a skilled based type of game, anyone can start their journey as a sports bettor as it's like trading where you need to analyze.

Gambling does not require skills but day trading require a lot of skills, so how is gambling like day trading ? For the risk point of view, you can say that both of them are risky, but still if you are an expert, you can earn good profit with your skills. But in gambling you are totally blind whether you can win or lose.

Okay, daytime trading is like playing roulette... You have a bunch of altcoins that you can buy, but only a few will bring you profit! Skills hardly work here...
It's like betting on different numbers of red and white!

They say that only 6% of traders successfully earn! How many percent of these people can be attributed to day traders?

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Quote from: Japinat on April 18, 2020, 04:41:27 AM

Quote from: lienfaye on April 18, 2020, 01:47:11 AM

Indeed, it has similarities but the way to gain is totally different. Gambling usually doesnt require skills, if you know the game then you can start to play and in order to win you need to become lucky. However there are some games that if you have a knowledge its an edge to predict who might win (e.g. sports betting).

you answered it well, it does not require skills if you are gambling for fun, but there are games like sports betting where you can get use of your skills to win. Sports betting is a skilled based type of game, anyone can start their journey as a sports bettor as it's like trading where you need to analyze.

Gambling does not require skills but day trading require a lot of skills, so how is gambling like day trading ? For the risk point of view, you can say that both of them are risky, but still if you are an expert, you can earn good profit with your skills. But in gambling you are totally blind whether you can win or lose.

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Quote from: 3meek on April 18, 2020, 05:37:03 AM

Skills can help when trading for weeks or months, but intraday trading is not subject to technical analysis! I'm talking about it because I was losing my money trading intraday! Grin

for me, daily trading is like gambling which only relies on luck (without analysis and skill).. I still remember what someone said "TRADING = 20% buy or sell & 80% WAIT"

Quote from: sheenshane on April 18, 2020, 06:46:52 AM

Quote from: Japinat on April 18, 2020, 04:41:27 AM

Quote from: lienfaye on April 18, 2020, 01:47:11 AM

snip..

You are right, in gambling like sports betting you will need to have to analyze every match and place your bet upon your analysis was done. Just kinda sort of trading, you also need technical and fundamental analysis in predicting which team will win. Not only sports betting required skill in gambling, but it is also in card games like poker and tong-its.

That's right.. Poker, sports betting (soccer, boxing, basketball, and racing) is the same as Profesional Trading that requires technical analysis..

Topic: Gambling is like day trading ? - page 8. (Read 2864 times)