Gambling tax proposal in Ukraine | Bitcointalksearch.org

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Quote from: boyptc on September 17, 2021, 06:10:13 PM

Quote from: aioc on September 17, 2021, 09:15:49 AM

If Ukraine did not tax them before and just now, I don't see anything wrong with this, if you are operating a business and you are making a profit
from your business, it's just right that the government to impose a tax on your business, these casinos are lucky then that they experienced free taxes all these years and now it's time for the government to tax them to sustain government funding, government get their funding from taxing its people and business, it's basic.

With the accordance and response to the pandemic, most of the countries needed to take every source for additional budget of their government. And that's maybe one of the reason they've suddenly came up with it.

Yes, if a business profits, they should tax it.

I couldn't agree more. If it brings in profit tax it. Although, I'm thinking 10% may be sort of too much. How is this going to affect those who visit online casinos. Well, in the next 6months, we'll be back to see how far they have fared.

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Quote from: DrBeer on September 19, 2021, 09:10:54 AM

All over the world, the Covid 19 pandemic gave a powerful impetus to the development of online businesses, different areas of B2B, B2C, and of course the entertainment and games segment. After the lockdown, when access to physical betting sites was simply limited, the growth of online channels immediately began for the existing physical sites.

You are right. While the country is still lockdown and their people can not freely go to the public area, people use online gambling to continue their gambling activity. Some gamblers search on the fiat gambling site and play on it, while others find the crypto gambling site and use it to gamble. Out of that, online gambling benefits from the lockdown because the site has many new gamblers from many countries.

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Quote from: boyptc on September 17, 2021, 06:10:13 PM

Quote from: aioc on September 17, 2021, 09:15:49 AM

If Ukraine did not tax them before and just now, I don't see anything wrong with this, if you are operating a business and you are making a profit
from your business, it's just right that the government to impose a tax on your business, these casinos are lucky then that they experienced free taxes all these years and now it's time for the government to tax them to sustain government funding, government get their funding from taxing its people and business, it's basic.

With the accordance and response to the pandemic, most of the countries needed to take every source for additional budget of their government. And that's maybe one of the reason they've suddenly came up with it.

Yes, if a business profits, they should tax it.

All over the world, the Covid 19 pandemic gave a powerful impetus to the development of online businesses, different areas of B2B, B2C, and of course the entertainment and games segment. After the lockdown, when access to physical betting sites was simply limited, the growth of online channels immediately began for the existing physical sites.

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Quote from: aioc on September 17, 2021, 09:15:49 AM

If Ukraine did not tax them before and just now, I don't see anything wrong with this, if you are operating a business and you are making a profit
from your business, it's just right that the government to impose a tax on your business, these casinos are lucky then that they experienced free taxes all these years and now it's time for the government to tax them to sustain government funding, government get their funding from taxing its people and business, it's basic.

With the accordance and response to the pandemic, most of the countries needed to take every source for additional budget of their government. And that's maybe one of the reason they've suddenly came up with it.

Yes, if a business profits, they should tax it.

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Quote from: pinggoki on September 16, 2021, 02:29:03 PM

I think this ordinance will work well for Ukraine's economy considering they ranked #40 among Top 100 countries when it comes to game revenues from gambling sessions. I couldn't see why they took some time to post this bill to the respective authorities as it could work well for the country economically, and individually. I'm supposing imposing higher tax rates for every winnings or stakings will discourage people who would gamble for the winnings and not because they want to relax, therefore saving them all the trouble and hassle losing money you can't afford brings.

In recent time we have some very good rise in gambling activities just because of this many countries are now working on this as they understand this could be great source for them to increase income even many punters losing this field due to these taxes but still addiction is on and for few they want to have some big in quick time with this as its all-time opportunity available for every one.

In gambling few feel tax must be not high as this is also problem for few because they don't want to pay big amount even they are paying this from their win, authorities need to take some better and soft policies about this.

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Quote from: aioc on September 17, 2021, 09:15:49 AM

Quote from: ene1980 on September 16, 2021, 05:28:07 PM

Ukraine is not going to tax online gambling sites, which is an impossible task as there are many safe heavens they can move to. The tax will be levied on offline gambling casinos and stores and there is nothing is in taxing these casinos, as mentioned above by DrBeer there was no taxes levied upon them earlier and anyone could operate a casino and now they wanted to tax them and it is normal.

If Ukraine did not tax them before and just now, I don't see anything wrong with this, if you are operating a business and you are making a profit
from your business, it's just right that the government to impose a tax on your business, these casinos are lucky then that they experienced free taxes all these years and now it's time for the government to tax them to sustain government funding, government get their funding from taxing its people and business, it's basic.

I agree with you, especially that this industry have a significant demand, and so taxation on revenues must be done to support government programs. Just like any other business, I think it is reasonable for casinos to be taxed since the amount of their revenues are quite high. Thus, this calls for balancing the economy thru redistribution of wealth for public benefit through government initiatives. Also, this encourages establishments to follow regulations and operate legally.

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Quote from: ene1980 on September 16, 2021, 05:28:07 PM

Ukraine is not going to tax online gambling sites, which is an impossible task as there are many safe heavens they can move to. The tax will be levied on offline gambling casinos and stores and there is nothing is in taxing these casinos, as mentioned above by DrBeer there was no taxes levied upon them earlier and anyone could operate a casino and now they wanted to tax them and it is normal.

If Ukraine did not tax them before and just now, I don't see anything wrong with this, if you are operating a business and you are making a profit
from your business, it's just right that the government to impose a tax on your business, these casinos are lucky then that they experienced free taxes all these years and now it's time for the government to tax them to sustain government funding, government get their funding from taxing its people and business, it's basic.

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Quote from: DrBeer on September 17, 2021, 06:30:42 AM

I will clarify a little about the tax scheme that works in Ukraine. Gambling business taxation includes fees and taxes from companies that organize offline / online platforms and are responsible for organizing and providing these services to consumers. At this stage, the attractiveness of organizing such a business lies in tax holidays and low taxes.

Let's start with the fact that no matter how attractive the taxation of the gambling business in Ukraine is, all bookmakers are still black bookmakers instead of buying a license. There are thousands of bookmakers in Ukraine, and I know only one bookmaker that has a state license (the cost of the license is a little over $ 6 million, or 30 thousand minimum wages). So attractiveness is out of the question ... considering that no one cares about the interests of the players.

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Quote from: Japinat on July 01, 2021, 05:44:53 PM

Quote from: Oshosondy on June 28, 2021, 10:45:50 AM

Quote from: Japinat on June 28, 2021, 09:28:10 AM

I don't know why some people are worried about tax on gambling sites, isn't it taxes are for casinos only and not on the gamblers. I mean, they are the ones who are making money, most gamblers are spending money just to be entertained, so we don't pay taxes on entertainment, I think that makes sense, right?

I do not know what you meant by this, but you either meant that only gambling companies will pay tax? Or most gamblers would have lost while losses will first be deducted before paying tax? Yes about this second one. But taxes in gambling industry depends on the governmental laws and policies towards gambling, there are some countries that only the gambling companies that provide gambling services will only be the ones to pay while punters will not pay any tax irrespective of any gain they made, but there are countries in which the punters will have to pay tax of any net gain, which means if the gamblers is losing already, he will not have to pay until he gained back all his losses.

Yes, I meant the gambling sites will be the only ones who will pay taxes and let the gamblers enjoy their winning, and eventually they will still lose it when they come back. it's also easier to track the performance of the casino than the gamblers, and since casinos are profitable, they should only be the one who will pay, this way it will attract gamblers to gamble as they are getting real entertainment without tax liability.

I will clarify a little about the tax scheme that works in Ukraine. Gambling business taxation includes fees and taxes from companies that organize offline / online platforms and are responsible for organizing and providing these services to consumers. At this stage, the attractiveness of organizing such a business lies in tax holidays and low taxes.
For the player - he does not pay any taxes, receiving the winnings on such a site. The player may have tax liabilities only in the country of which he is a citizen, if there is such legislation in the country and the player himself has a conscience

The only potentially "unpleasant" moment may be the requirement to pass the KYC. Well, the interaction of the site with the fiscal structures of different countries - but this is usually in the case of major financial crimes.

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Quote from: tabas on September 16, 2021, 06:45:45 PM

Will they be able to catch also those that are doing it privately? there's no tax with that, there's no need for registration and it's not only happening in Ukraine.
Because in most countries, there are those silent places where people can gamble without worrying about taxation and registrations.

If it's tipped to the authorities then those gambling operators working in the dark will be apprehended and catch.

But like in any other country too, there is dirty money. It means those gambling operators that are not a registered businesses are giving money to the high person or official to keeps their company running without paying a tax.

In other words, CORRUPTION.

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Quote from: tabas on September 16, 2021, 06:45:45 PM

Will they be able to catch also those that are doing it privately? there's no tax with that, there's no need for registration and it's not only happening in Ukraine.
Because in most countries, there are those silent places where people can gamble without worrying about taxation and registrations.

And those are mostly done underground or even the worst on where those places are ran by the government itself thats why they cant really able easily be taken down.

Its just normal that taxation would really be asked out since any business isnt really exempted for this one.Everybody should be obliged to pay up taxes but there are

businesses who do really skip out on doing so neither for personal reasons or just simply they dont like to pay up taxes.

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Will they be able to catch also those that are doing it privately? there's no tax with that, there's no need for registration and it's not only happening in Ukraine.
Because in most countries, there are those silent places where people can gamble without worrying about taxation and registrations.

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Quote from: Japinat on July 01, 2021, 05:44:53 PM

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Yes, I meant the gambling sites will be the only ones who will pay taxes and let the gamblers enjoy their winning, and eventually they will still lose it when they come back. it's also easier to track the performance of the casino than the gamblers, and since casinos are profitable, they should only be the one who will pay, this way it will attract gamblers to gamble as they are getting real entertainment without tax liability.

Ukraine is not going to tax online gambling sites, which is an impossible task as there are many safe heavens they can move to. The tax will be levied on offline gambling casinos and stores and there is nothing is in taxing these casinos, as mentioned above by DrBeer there was no taxes levied upon them earlier and anyone could operate a casino and now they wanted to tax them and it is normal.

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I think this ordinance will work well for Ukraine's economy considering they ranked #40 among Top 100 countries when it comes to game revenues from gambling sessions. I couldn't see why they took some time to post this bill to the respective authorities as it could work well for the country economically, and individually. I'm supposing imposing higher tax rates for every winnings or stakings will discourage people who would gamble for the winnings and not because they want to relax, therefore saving them all the trouble and hassle losing money you can't afford brings.

Quote from: DrBeer on September 16, 2021, 08:28:26 AM

Quote from: timerland on September 15, 2021, 07:32:17 PM

This makes absolutely no sense and will clearly flop if implemented.

They think that this is enforceable in the long run but it really isn't - people will simply move to underground/black markets to get their bets processed.

I thought that Ukraine was somewhat progressive when it comes to these things given their recent attitude towards crypto - but I guess I thought wrong.

The legalization of such business areas (gambling) assumes a situation where both parties receive the expected benefits. But what happened in Ukraine until recently was a mess! It was possible, without any permits, to "quietly" rent a room, put gaming machines there, and without paying a penny of taxes, get very high profits! If we take as 100% all the gambling halls that were in Ukraine earlier, then approximately 50-70% existed actually outside the laws and registrations! And it shouldn't be like that - everyone pays taxes, everyone works openly. Moreover, such illegal gambling halls as a rule "belonged" to deputies, high officials in law enforcement agencies, and the like. individuals who, moreover, used their official position for illegal enrichment!

This makes sense. Thanks for putting this into perspective. I guess along with this, there should be extensive operations to whittle down, if not completely eradicate illegal gambling operations within the country. Otherwise, as you have said, people will just resort to black market operations to have their bets made which is not good of course. These two activities should go hand-in-hand, matter of fact they should focus more on eradicating illegal gambling operations on their country in the first place.

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Quote from: timerland on September 15, 2021, 07:32:17 PM

This makes absolutely no sense and will clearly flop if implemented.

They think that this is enforceable in the long run but it really isn't - people will simply move to underground/black markets to get their bets processed.

I thought that Ukraine was somewhat progressive when it comes to these things given their recent attitude towards crypto - but I guess I thought wrong.

The legalization of such business areas (gambling) assumes a situation where both parties receive the expected benefits. But what happened in Ukraine until recently was a mess! It was possible, without any permits, to "quietly" rent a room, put gaming machines there, and without paying a penny of taxes, get very high profits! If we take as 100% all the gambling halls that were in Ukraine earlier, then approximately 50-70% existed actually outside the laws and registrations! And it shouldn't be like that - everyone pays taxes, everyone works openly. Moreover, such illegal gambling halls as a rule "belonged" to deputies, high officials in law enforcement agencies, and the like. individuals who, moreover, used their official position for illegal enrichment!

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Quote from: Kittygalore on September 15, 2021, 11:55:28 AM

Quote from: Xinarae* on July 01, 2021, 11:48:04 PM

Many gamblers stop playing because of the high tax rate because not everyone can afford it. Ukrainian president vladimir zelensky plans to legalize gambling in the country for which he has raised taxes I think that by increasing the amount of bonus for playing jaya gamblers will be able to play very easily. Enforcement officials follow violators without much encouragement and often cooperate with them and the state simply proposes a gambling tax in ukraine without losing any tax fees.

Why is the taxes shouldered by the gamblers? Shouldn't the gambling house be the one that's shouldering those things? Afaik, gambling shouldn't have any taxes when you're a player, either the chips got more expensive than the last but the players won't be directly involved with taxes.

I think gambling house have separate taxes to pay and it seems that they are targeting the gamblers since they can still generate an income if they win a profit from playing that's why some government think about taxing them. But if we really think deeply they shouldn't do this since imagine its huge burden to the gamblers since they are already losing a few bucks for the tax implemented and how much more if they are playing on their bad days for sure they will struggle to recover since taxes taken is already make the life of gambler more heavier.

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This makes absolutely no sense and will clearly flop if implemented.

They think that this is enforceable in the long run but it really isn't - people will simply move to underground/black markets to get their bets processed.

I thought that Ukraine was somewhat progressive when it comes to these things given their recent attitude towards crypto - but I guess I thought wrong.

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Quote from: johhnyUA on July 08, 2021, 04:02:08 PM

....
Yep. And this people, which running illegal casinos will open new, legal ones in hotels and special places. And still running their illegal counterparts.

Let me disagree! If we take Kiev, for example, then most of the unofficial, semi-official and even official (which fell under the legal restriction) casinos, gambling halls and other things were CLOSED! Now there are a lot of premises on the first floors, they still wear the exterior decoration of the gaming halls, but they are already empty, and the premises are being rented / sold en masse. I will not say that this is a 100% process, but 90% + is still closed!
Not so long ago, I noticed the opening of a small game room disguised as a computer club (Kiev, in the Darnitsa area) - he called a police squad, a few days later the room was empty ...

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Quote from: Xinarae* on July 01, 2021, 11:48:04 PM

Many gamblers stop playing because of the high tax rate because not everyone can afford it. Ukrainian president vladimir zelensky plans to legalize gambling in the country for which he has raised taxes I think that by increasing the amount of bonus for playing jaya gamblers will be able to play very easily. Enforcement officials follow violators without much encouragement and often cooperate with them and the state simply proposes a gambling tax in ukraine without losing any tax fees.

Why is the taxes shouldered by the gamblers? Shouldn't the gambling house be the one that's shouldering those things? Afaik, gambling shouldn't have any taxes when you're a player, either the chips got more expensive than the last but the players won't be directly involved with taxes.

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In terms of taxation, Ukraine is a very "comfortable" country. The latest innovations related to the turnover of cryptocurrency - 10% tax rate on income from transactions with cryptocurrency is very soft! Plus, the tax system in Ukraine is also quite soft in relation to private entrepreneurship. For example, working in the IT field, as a private entrepreneur, I pay only 5% of the turnover! Or I can choose a different scheme - 3% + VAT 20% (as you understand this is value added tax, which, in fact, is simply added during the formation of the value, but requires additional accounting).
Regarding the gambling business, there is already a legislative base, there are special conditions, the market is being formalized and rebuilt after an unstable situation with this sector

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