Gambling tax proposal in Ukraine - page 5.

South Park

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Quote from: fiulpro on June 07, 2021, 01:01:33 PM

The have been a tax proposal recently announced which according to the officials will impact the overall situation of Ukraine. Few things to consider here :

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The Scientific and Expert Management Committee of the Parliament argued the latest tax proposal on gambling would impact budgetsThe proposal set a flat 10% tax rate for all gambling verticals and removes plans for license fees hikeThe committee outlined a number of factors influencing gambling tax rate policy and not justifying reducing the tax burden on operators

If you do think that 10% is a huge amount I do think you have to read the full article where they state that for them it was a sum between 10-30% . For the government a 10% tax proposal is honestly low. But according to the experts this might reduce the consumption.

The companies might soon find them in a bind. The license fee is also supposed to hike which will cause probelms for the new companies. For the already established one's it might be a bad news nothing else but the government will soon see lower people interested in establishing their own companies. I do think the government is trying to compensate for covid and at the same time there are some probelms with Russia right now therefore they are trying to play safe and earn some money.

What do you think ?
https://www.gamblingnews.com/news/gambling-tax-proposal-may-impact-ukraine-state-and-local-budgets/

When it comes to activities or products that are thought to be negative for the society governments set very high taxes so a flat tax of 10% seems like a bargain to me, where I live the tax is a minimum of 30% and for what I have read it is a complete pain to get the license on the first place, so if anything I think this is a good thing and the casino operators at Ukraine should be happy they have sensible politicians which think about them and their interests.

Fundamentals Of

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Quote from: peter0425 on June 10, 2021, 02:57:53 AM

Quote from: Fundamentals Of on June 09, 2021, 10:19:22 AM

I honestly see no problem with increasing the tax on gambling. If that is what it takes to discourage gamblers and probably avoid a worsening statistics of gambling addiction

I don't believe that The main target here is to discourage gamblers to play but to increase the collection because there are big expenses from the pandemic season.

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and gambling-related crimes, then it is good. If that is also what it takes for Ukraine to somehow raise funds in order to support the more basic needs of the populace especially in the times of pandemic, then it is also good. After all, gambling is just a luxury or just one of the ways people waste money.

Yeah they are seeking for recovery funds because of too much expenses when the pandemic attach and also from the vaccine .

Have you read the whole article? There was no mention of COVID or vaccine. There was actually no mention of the need to increase revenue coming from the gambling industry in order to support the rising expenses brought by the pandemic. But there was a mention of minimizing consumption. Aside from that, there was also a mention of gambling social impact which requires attention. Although I think it would help the country's need for funds especially in the time of pandemic, there is actually no reason to think that this is its main reason.

ReiMomo

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on June 10, 2021, 05:05:04 AM

10% flat tax rate seems fair to be honest compared to some other countries which even collect 30 to 40% as tax but having the progressive tax is better than flat tax rate so they can avoid the people from stop their gambling activities.

Exactly, and that's fair enough if you will compare it to other countries. Ukraine must lucky enough because their government only asks a small amount to be taxed by the individual income tax. See on this list of countries by tax rates ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates ), you will see it's rarely that country to pay 10% for tax.

When it comes to tax revenue, the gambling industry was a great help, imagine, after lockdown implemented in all countries, it seems gambling was back to operate because they know how a big help will contribute in order to our economy will recover back. So that is fair enough to Ukraine.

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Quote from: peter0425 on June 10, 2021, 02:57:53 AM

Quote from: Fundamentals Of on June 09, 2021, 10:19:22 AM

I honestly see no problem with increasing the tax on gambling. If that is what it takes to discourage gamblers and probably avoid a worsening statistics of gambling addiction

I don't believe that The main target here is to discourage gamblers to play but to increase the collection because there are big expenses from the pandemic season.

I mean, why not both right? Besides, the gambling industry is a big business, not to mention that 10% is actually on the lowside, so it's not really a detriment. It's just a plus for both sides, government gets more money, casinos have more chances to spread their name, easy as that. Besides, even with casino taxes, I hardly doubt it could dent the damage that the pandemic caused. It'd be more likely for it to actually be remedied if once the pandemic is gone, is that people spend money outside instead of hoarding it.

jrrsparkles

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10% flat tax rate seems fair to be honest compared to some other countries which even collect 30 to 40% as tax but having the progressive tax is better than flat tax rate so they can avoid the people from stop their gambling activities.

peter0425

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Quote from: Fundamentals Of on June 09, 2021, 10:19:22 AM

I honestly see no problem with increasing the tax on gambling. If that is what it takes to discourage gamblers and probably avoid a worsening statistics of gambling addiction

I don't believe that The main target here is to discourage gamblers to play but to increase the collection because there are big expenses from the pandemic season.

Quote

and gambling-related crimes, then it is good. If that is also what it takes for Ukraine to somehow raise funds in order to support the more basic needs of the populace especially in the times of pandemic, then it is also good. After all, gambling is just a luxury or just one of the ways people waste money.

Yeah they are seeking for recovery funds because of too much expenses when the pandemic attach and also from the vaccine .

iv4n

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Quote from: Fundamentals Of on June 09, 2021, 10:19:22 AM

I honestly see no problem with increasing the tax on gambling. If that is what it takes to discourage gamblers and probably avoid a worsening statistics of gambling addiction and gambling-related crimes, then it is good. If that is also what it takes for Ukraine to somehow raise funds in order to support the more basic needs of the populace especially in the times of pandemic, then it is also good. After all, gambling is just a luxury or just one of the ways people waste money.

I don't see any problems here as well, but it's probably because we gamble with crypto and we are not whales! So we are partly anonymous and we don't gamble with big money, so we are under radars and we don't pay any taxes on our winning, at least I don't!

Basically, it's what governments do... they see where is the money, impose their rules, regulate it and tax it! After all, that is happening with crypto in some countries already, while in some countries (like mine) there's still nothing about that!
And like always, some countries will have soft rules and an open approach, some will have hard rules and regulations to making something totally illegal for use!

uneng

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There is a global tendency of increasing taxes nowadays due to the infinite global economical crisis boosted recently by coronavirus pandemic. We are going to see taxes increasing and currencies losing value much faster from now on. In this case it really doesn't look too absurd, because in my country the lottery tax for winners is around 30% and probably there are some extra taxes hidden besides these 30%.
It would be interesting to know what ukrainians have to say about it. As I see people there don't accept to be abused by the government.

Chato1977

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according to the article it is 10% taxation in which for me is very decent and good enough to manage a good gambling experience for the whole Ukraine .

Even in many countries there are much higher tax required by the government.

Quote from: madnessteat on June 08, 2021, 02:23:07 PM

Recently, in many countries of the former CIS there is a gradual impoverishment of the population, many businesses are closing because it is simply unrealistic to compete with Chinese production. Due to the decline in demand for oil and gas, the government is forced to increase the tax burden on business and the gambling business is no exception.

and I believe that there are no really a big issue on this part.

Does OP comes from Ukraine? because why it seems that he is more affected compared to Ukrainian in this forum.

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I assume this is only on net winnings. Let's say you are losing for weeks without any profit and then one day you make finally a nice profit. It would seem kind of harsh if our previous losses are not taken into account. Every government needs money, especially Ukraine. Paying taxes on our winnings is fine, because if win 1 million abs have to give up 10% it's fine. In some countries the tax on lotteries are as high as 50%. I would say everything below 30% is still reasonable.

In the article it is mentioned that the tax is applicable on total revenues (i.e the total income made by the casino as a result of the house edge). Winnings by the gamblers will be subjected to income tax, and they will not come under corporate tax. And income tax will be calculated on annual basis. So if a particular individual had won $1000 and lost $800 for that particular year, then he needs to pay tax on the difference (i.e $200). If the tax is deducted every time, then the gambling business will become unviable.

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If this enables the government to stop gamblers—especially the problematic and addicted ones—then it's by no means an excellent way of helping to revive the economy and reducing the number of problematic gamblers in the country. Adopting a steep taxation model and expensive licensing fees will discourage new platforms to pop up and be an addition to the list of things they need to worry about. It's honestly better this way than Ukraine having to ban the industry at all. It's literally hitting two birds with one stone, though they could be aiming for the eradication of gambling on the country more than getting something from the industry itself.

Fundamentals Of

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I honestly see no problem with increasing the tax on gambling. If that is what it takes to discourage gamblers and probably avoid a worsening statistics of gambling addiction and gambling-related crimes, then it is good. If that is also what it takes for Ukraine to somehow raise funds in order to support the more basic needs of the populace especially in the times of pandemic, then it is also good. After all, gambling is just a luxury or just one of the ways people waste money.

paxmao

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Sound like not much to be honest, a 10% on winnings I assume? Or is in on corporate profit? Is it directly on any sum gambled on withdrawals? There are many ways to implement this and all of them have quite different results. For example, if it is on net yearly winning per individual it is not much but if it is 10% of any amount gambled at anytime... well that much more impacting in the gambling levels.

Curious how new regulations tend to appear more damaging for large companies, but as you say de facto they reduce the ability for new players to start their stuff.

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Quote from: avikz on June 09, 2021, 09:40:18 AM

Ok, let's discuss it from the government's perspective. Usually a government reduces tx burden on certain activity if they want to promote it and vice versa. If a government wants to slowly discourage gambling activities in their country, they may not take some drastic steps because it would affect the employment and the entire industry. So they go ahead with phased increase in taxes and licensing fees to make it harder for new companies to join the bandwagon.

I think Ukraine government is planning some sort of phased erosion of gambling activities in their country. Definitely they will face a lot of backlash from the industry. But the final decision is yet to be seen.

To be honest this makes sense if the government is indeed, trying to prevent other businesses from joining this bandwagon.

Personally, I see it on another perspective. Since the government sees that gambling establishments have been profitable over the past years (especially during this pandemic), it is normal for them to increase the taxes in order to get revenue. Such revenue now will enable the government to create projects for the benefit of their country. Of course, this scenario will happen in a perfect government where corruption is not present.

avikz

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Ok, let's discuss it from the government's perspective. Usually a government reduces tx burden on certain activity if they want to promote it and vice versa. If a government wants to slowly discourage gambling activities in their country, they may not take some drastic steps because it would affect the employment and the entire industry. So they go ahead with phased increase in taxes and licensing fees to make it harder for new companies to join the bandwagon.

I think Ukraine government is planning some sort of phased erosion of gambling activities in their country. Definitely they will face a lot of backlash from the industry. But the final decision is yet to be seen.

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Quote from: MCobian on June 08, 2021, 07:23:32 PM

Taxes are very important for the state to be able to get money that can be used for government projects that aim to make the population prosperous.
This means that the purpose of imposing taxes is good, so I agree that the Ukrainian government should impose taxes if gambling is legal.
Because not all countries legalize gambling, it is impossible for countries to get taxes from the gambling industry if the country prohibits gambling.
Taxes from gambling should be able to help the Ukrainian government, because we know the circulation of money in the gambling world is very large.
Even though I am not a Ukrainian citizen, I support the Ukrainian government to impose taxes. It is for the good of Ukrainian citizens themselves.
The most important thing is that the Ukrainian government must be right in utilizing the taxes obtained from the gambling.

Yeah we all know what taxes do:) But the point for gambling tax isn't just to get revenue, which is what all vice tax is about, which is actually to help pay for the cost of consequences.

Smoking tax: to help pay for medical bills to treat smoking patients.
Gambling tax: to help pay for counseling and other support to treat addicts.

worle1bm

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If you are getting legal recognition under the law of country at the stake of 10% tax proposals then it's not too high according to me because there are countries charging even higher tax amounts than this as shared by other members on the forum like France upto 84% seriously? Moreover house is earning a lot already so sharing with government to contribute for country's growth and social causes is not bad move at all.They can gain huge profits with increased customer base.But as casino owners will always have sharing of profits with third party as an issue but they need to think about it closely and accept this fact.

imstillthebest

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10% is not a big amount and all of us can agree with that .

Quote from: fiulpro on June 07, 2021, 01:01:33 PM

The license fee is also supposed to hike which will cause probelms for the new companies. For the already established one's it might be a bad news nothing else but the government will soon see lower people interested in establishing their own companies. I do think the government is trying to compensate for covid and at the same time there are some probelms with Russia right now therefore they are trying to play safe and earn some money.

in the qoute it says they remove the hike in license fee . i dont know which one is correct but this is not a bad news for the owners that are done purchasing thier license but its a bad news for the new owners that are trying to build their own casino although this wont stop them for continuing in this business because there will also be gamblers that wont stop playing a gambling .

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Quote from: KennyR on June 08, 2021, 07:22:37 PM

Tax money is the source for the government and when they meet with unexpected needs like the pandemic, what they do is add up tax. The proposal by Ukraine in my view is acceptable, because they're not into taxation of the essential things. In certain countries taxes were increased on the essential things. Already People are suffering financially, the taxes once again adds pain.

Particularly on the fuel price which leads to the hike in the price of each and everything.

But if the government just raises the taxes without discussing with the other element, I am afraid to demonstrate from the business owner because, in this pandemic, they feel it is hard to make a profit. Maybe tax really help the country to survive in this pandemic, but the government needs to analyze to find which business or industry still survives. But they can not generalize one business for all business owners because that will depend on how big their company is. That will be the same if they want to use the regulation to the gambling industry because, as we know, that gambling business will depend on how much the owner uses their money to reopen their business again.

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Quote from: KennyR on June 08, 2021, 07:22:37 PM

Tax money is the source for the government and when they meet with unexpected needs like the pandemic, what they do is add up tax. The proposal by Ukraine in my view is acceptable, because they're not into taxation of the essential things. In certain countries taxes were increased on the essential things. Already People are suffering financially, the taxes once again adds pain.

Particularly on the fuel price which leads to the hike in the price of each and everything.

If the taxes are properly spent and they all benefit the public, I don't have any worries about paying bigger taxes, look at Scandinavian Peninsula, some of the countries there have some of the biggest taxes in Europe but they were able to justifiy it with a universal healthcare and a free colleges or sometimes even paid to study in their universities and social welfare.

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