Gambling vs. "leveraged" trading - page 8.

Hydrogen

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Quote from: Raja_MBZ on June 20, 2018, 05:50:46 PM

From their terms of service:

Quote

By registering as a Member you represent and warrant:

i) that you are not a resident of the United States of America, Cuba, Crimea and Sevastopol, Iran, Syria, North Korea, Sudan, or any other jurisdiction where the services offered by BitMEX are restricted. If it is determined that you have given false representation as to your place of residence, BitMEX reserves the right to close your account immediately and liquidate any open positions at the prevailing market price.

At Bitmex, there's no minimum account balance required for leveraged trading. You're good to go even with a few satoshis. However, I must say that you're lucky for being in a restricted region. It ruined my savings of whole year in a blink of an eye. Roll Eyes

I'm never going to open that website again.

Thx for the info. That clarifies things. I'll try to find another exchange which accepts US residents. If I trade I'll probably use a balance of $20 or less and focus on percentage gained/lost rather than overall bankroll. To get an idea of how profitable/unprofitable it is over the long term. Around 5 years ago, I tried trading on an exchange and only managed to profit around $12 per day. It wasn't much more profitable than HODL so I gave it up. Maybe things are different now.

If trading crypto with leverage was more widely available 5 years ago, I might've been able to turn my $12 per day gains into a decent sum. Sorry to hear about your losses. I lost around 8 bitcoins gambling when 1 btc was worth around $12 around 2011-2012. I know that feeling.

leowonderful

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Additionally, there are tools you can use in trading to help you predict future pricing and patterns in the market (technical analysis), but in the end it is extremely debatable whether or not these tools help or work much, and trading is still luck-based, much like gambling. You can reduce risk in trading to minimize losses by reducing trade sizes, etc, and trading isn't exactly rigged against you the way regular gambling is with house edges, but trading and gambling are clearly related in some ways.

If we start talking about leveraged trading, though, we start to stray closer to true gambling. Leveraged trading is extremely risky and there's a reason why most people choose not to do it- though your gains are greater as a result of leverage, so do your losses, and then margin calls also come into play. In the past when I've tried trading, I never even looked to it or thought of it for these very reasons.

minime0105

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in my opinion, gambling is playing off-chance. Trading on the other hand is all insightful knowledge and confidence, therefore I'd go leveraged trading where at least you still have some limited control over your money

Raja_MBZ

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Quote from: Hydrogen on June 18, 2018, 11:50:18 PM

This thread motivated me to open an account @ bitmex to try crypto trading on leverage. Unfortunately, the USA is a "restricted" region? (It might be a state based restriction, rather than nation based)

What's a good exchange for leveraged trading, where I might have access?

The last time I tried trading with leverage on the stock market, I think the minimum account balance to do so was $2,000. One neglected advantage of crypto trading could be leverage with balances less than $2k. Generally higher potential profits are correlated with greater risk. Many financial and economic instabilities and recessions can be traced back to large investors gambling with toxic assets when financial bubbles pop.

"Regulation" prohibits people like me from having financial opportunities with leveraged crypto trading on bitmex. I know that people circumvent regulation via VPN/proxy/etc. But shouldn't these platforms operate on an equal opportunity basis?

From their terms of service:

Quote

By registering as a Member you represent and warrant:

i) that you are not a resident of the United States of America, Cuba, Crimea and Sevastopol, Iran, Syria, North Korea, Sudan, or any other jurisdiction where the services offered by BitMEX are restricted. If it is determined that you have given false representation as to your place of residence, BitMEX reserves the right to close your account immediately and liquidate any open positions at the prevailing market price.

At Bitmex, there's no minimum account balance required for leveraged trading. You're good to go even with a few satoshis. However, I must say that you're lucky for being in a restricted region. It ruined my savings of whole year in a blink of an eye. Roll Eyes

I'm never going to open that website again.

avikz

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Quote from: anntlevel on June 20, 2018, 04:55:38 AM

Quote from: creeps on June 19, 2018, 06:31:37 AM

Quote from: jhongzjhong on June 19, 2018, 04:27:32 AM

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on June 19, 2018, 03:32:29 AM

Both trading and leverage trading can be compared to gambling. The less you know what you are doing and the more you are relying on luck on how you feel the market will go, the more of a gambler you are. The difference is, leverage trading is similar to gambling when you borrow money, so you can bet higher amounts. You can win more but you can lose faster as well.

Precisely, leverage trading compared to gambling all I can say is worst in gambling. There's no assurance in gambling but in trading maybe you have a chance. If I rate them in my own the lowered one is gambling, pure luck base on gambling but in trading, you have a chance by searching and make a study of what coin you trade for.
For me, these two things are very risky, so I will not engage of these of strategy in earning money.

In trading there's a guaranteed return especially when you know what you are doing. Regular trading is cannot be consider as gambling because you have the strategies every time you trade, and you study for it however people consider trading as gambling because many greedy people are still trading even they know nothing. Leveraged trading is quiet more risky and it can be consider as gambling because you are borrowing money just to have more profit which I think more greedy compare to the ordinary trading.

Trading is the most profitable source of income and many people are making more and more money from crypto trading. Gamblers are losing their money online and offline. They have no respect in society, besides trader has lot of respect in his community because of having money. By trading you can become the richest person of your community.

That's a very typical mentality you have portrayed. Just like how a common man with zero knowledge about gambling would think. I won't blame you because this is how a major portion of the society thinks about gambling and you are not someone with exceptional mental capability. So no wonder you would do that.

By characteristic, trading is also gambling. In gambling you bet on your luck and in trading you bet on your speculation and obviously luck. It's because of some people with typical mindset portrays gambling as negative in the society. A change in outlook towards gambling is obviously needed and I strongly condemn your views on gambling.

JL421

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It's not exactly like gambling, leverage trading is mostly for those people who know the market very well, i don't know if you remember but there was a trader once who had few bitcoins and started leverage trading in December. He converted those few bitcoin to some 80 bitcoins and he thought he knew everything about the market but in jan as price started falling he got frustrated and start leveraging more and finally in feb lost everything when the market crashed

maydna

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I don't think that leverage trading is the same as gambling. because we still need to analyze where is the trend wants to go and how good the market if we buy the coin. but in leverage trading, we can add power because we can get leverage to make money but we could also get lost if our buy does not match with the trends. so it is important for us to know where the price wants to go so we can make a profit in leverage trading.

anntlevel

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Quote from: creeps on June 19, 2018, 06:31:37 AM

Quote from: jhongzjhong on June 19, 2018, 04:27:32 AM

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on June 19, 2018, 03:32:29 AM

Both trading and leverage trading can be compared to gambling. The less you know what you are doing and the more you are relying on luck on how you feel the market will go, the more of a gambler you are. The difference is, leverage trading is similar to gambling when you borrow money, so you can bet higher amounts. You can win more but you can lose faster as well.

Precisely, leverage trading compared to gambling all I can say is worst in gambling. There's no assurance in gambling but in trading maybe you have a chance. If I rate them in my own the lowered one is gambling, pure luck base on gambling but in trading, you have a chance by searching and make a study of what coin you trade for.
For me, these two things are very risky, so I will not engage of these of strategy in earning money.

In trading there's a guaranteed return especially when you know what you are doing. Regular trading is cannot be consider as gambling because you have the strategies every time you trade, and you study for it however people consider trading as gambling because many greedy people are still trading even they know nothing. Leveraged trading is quiet more risky and it can be consider as gambling because you are borrowing money just to have more profit which I think more greedy compare to the ordinary trading.

Trading is the most profitable source of income and many people are making more and more money from crypto trading. Gamblers are losing their money online and offline. They have no respect in society, besides trader has lot of respect in his community because of having money. By trading you can become the richest person of your community.

nelsledma

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Quote from: jhongzjhong on June 19, 2018, 04:27:32 AM

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on June 19, 2018, 03:32:29 AM

Both trading and leverage trading can be compared to gambling. The less you know what you are doing and the more you are relying on luck on how you feel the market will go, the more of a gambler you are. The difference is, leverage trading is similar to gambling when you borrow money, so you can bet higher amounts. You can win more but you can lose faster as well.

Precisely, leverage trading compared to gambling all I can say is worst in gambling. There's no assurance in gambling but in trading maybe you have a chance. If I rate them in my own the lowered one is gambling, pure luck base on gambling but in trading, you have a chance by searching and make a study of what coin you trade for.
For me, these two things are very risky, so I will not engage of these of strategy in earning money.

I don’t know how can you compare gambling with trading and leveraged trading? Trading is far better than gambling because it is business and the source of making more and more money while gambling is the way of losing your earned money. It will take to into debts and you will never be able to pay those debts till the end of your life and finally you will suicide.

adzino

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Trading/leverage trading can be compared to gambling but depends on how you are doing your trading. If you start placing your trade without studying the market and not analyzing anything, but with a hope of "gaining" something then you are actually gambling cause you are hoping to make profit but you are totally uncertain about what is going to happen. But if you do your analysis properly chances are high that you have predicted the outcome thus this time you aren't gambling.

paul00

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Once you put in your money into something and you will earn in return from it. I think it slready called gambling since you do not have the assurance the return of youre money plus the profit unless you are too lucky but most of the time youll ended busted. In my opinion both can be considered as gambling.

audaciousbeing

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Quote from: Raja_MBZ on June 14, 2018, 06:53:18 PM

Recently I tried leveraged trading for the first time at Bitmex, and ended up in a loss. It seemed similar to a gamble, where you deposit, place a bet and either win (and double) or lose everything. In leveraged trading, if you deposit & place an order and it reaches your liquidation level, you lose everything.

Gambling can't be compared to regular trading, as in regular trading, you don't win much and don't lose much either. However, if you're trading with leverage, then that trading can be considered something similar to a gamble.

What separates gambling from trading is simply the duration of winning and losing as both is about winning and losing just like every options in life that is about winning and losing. Focusing on gambling and trading, while in regular trading, you can quickly cut your losses when you see things not going according to the way you plan it, unlike gambling that the when an event happen, your status is already determined. In leverage trading that you have experience its just so close to gambling but not the same thing what makes it looks like gambling is because you are not allowed to alter your position after you have locked it in.

creeps

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Quote from: jhongzjhong on June 19, 2018, 04:27:32 AM

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on June 19, 2018, 03:32:29 AM

Both trading and leverage trading can be compared to gambling. The less you know what you are doing and the more you are relying on luck on how you feel the market will go, the more of a gambler you are. The difference is, leverage trading is similar to gambling when you borrow money, so you can bet higher amounts. You can win more but you can lose faster as well.

Precisely, leverage trading compared to gambling all I can say is worst in gambling. There's no assurance in gambling but in trading maybe you have a chance. If I rate them in my own the lowered one is gambling, pure luck base on gambling but in trading, you have a chance by searching and make a study of what coin you trade for.
For me, these two things are very risky, so I will not engage of these of strategy in earning money.

In trading there's a guaranteed return especially when you know what you are doing. Regular trading is cannot be consider as gambling because you have the strategies every time you trade, and you study for it however people consider trading as gambling because many greedy people are still trading even they know nothing. Leveraged trading is quiet more risky and it can be consider as gambling because you are borrowing money just to have more profit which I think more greedy compare to the ordinary trading.

jhongzjhong

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on June 19, 2018, 03:32:29 AM

Both trading and leverage trading can be compared to gambling. The less you know what you are doing and the more you are relying on luck on how you feel the market will go, the more of a gambler you are. The difference is, leverage trading is similar to gambling when you borrow money, so you can bet higher amounts. You can win more but you can lose faster as well.

Precisely, leverage trading compared to gambling all I can say is worst in gambling. There's no assurance in gambling but in trading maybe you have a chance. If I rate them in my own the lowered one is gambling, pure luck base on gambling but in trading, you have a chance by searching and make a study of what coin you trade for.
For me, these two things are very risky, so I will not engage of these of strategy in earning money.

jrrsparkles

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Quote from: Shenzou on June 18, 2018, 03:22:13 PM

Quote from: Raja_MBZ on June 14, 2018, 06:53:18 PM

Recently I tried leveraged trading for the first time at Bitmex, and ended up in a loss. It seemed similar to a gamble, where you deposit, place a bet and either win (and double) or lose everything. In leveraged trading, if you deposit & place an order and it reaches your liquidation level, you lose everything.

Gambling can't be compared to regular trading, as in regular trading, you don't win much and don't lose much either. However, if you're trading with leverage, then that trading can be considered something similar to a gamble.

Well i think that even leverage trading can't be compared to gambling as well, because no matter what trading is always going to depend somewhat on knowing the markets and what you are trying to trade, where is gambling it all depends on your luck even if you try to convince yourself otherwise, trading with leverage and putting a price that the coin is not going to fall down to is not something that you just guess it is something that you need to really look in too and decide where in gambling its all based on preeducated guess.

How the market is going to be is also based on our luck but we can't say this is purely based on our luck like in gambling.But I really don't know clearly that what is an leveraged trading can someone explain that term in easy form. Cheesy

Don Pedro Dinero

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Both trading and leverage trading can be compared to gambling. The less you know what you are doing and the more you are relying on luck on how you feel the market will go, the more of a gambler you are. The difference is, leverage trading is similar to gambling when you borrow money, so you can bet higher amounts. You can win more but you can lose faster as well.

Pursuer

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whenever you are talking about trading whether it is normal way of buy low sell high or leverage trading, at the end of the day the results of it will be determined based on how good you can speculate the market. if you make mistakes you will lose money and if you don't and speculate it accurately then you make a profit. so if you lost money in leverage trading that means your speculation was off the market. try working on that and you will be more successful and eventually realize that the unpredictability of the market is nothing like the unpredictability of gambling. the first one is not 100%, you can still predict the market to some extent but you can never predict the outcome of a bet.

Hydrogen

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This thread motivated me to open an account @ bitmex to try crypto trading on leverage. Unfortunately, the USA is a "restricted" region? (It might be a state based restriction, rather than nation based)

What's a good exchange for leveraged trading, where I might have access?

The last time I tried trading with leverage on the stock market, I think the minimum account balance to do so was $2,000. One neglected advantage of crypto trading could be leverage with balances less than $2k. Generally higher potential profits are correlated with greater risk. Many financial and economic instabilities and recessions can be traced back to large investors gambling with toxic assets when financial bubbles pop.

"Regulation" prohibits people like me from having financial opportunities with leveraged crypto trading on bitmex. I know that people circumvent regulation via VPN/proxy/etc. But shouldn't these platforms operate on an equal opportunity basis?

Pearls Before Swine

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Did you not know what you were getting yourself into by margin trading? That's one of the problems with it. As opposed to just using a cash account, you can easily lose everything if you run into a margin call. Sure, the gains can be so much greater but the chance of getting wiped out is also greater.

The United States got into serious trouble with leverage, if you recall the banking crisis of 2008 and 10 years before that, Long Term Capital Management. Too much leverage is a killer. Give it a shot if you've got some spare money to lose but be aware that you could end up with the same result as you just got.

Shenzou

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Quote from: Raja_MBZ on June 14, 2018, 06:53:18 PM

Recently I tried leveraged trading for the first time at Bitmex, and ended up in a loss. It seemed similar to a gamble, where you deposit, place a bet and either win (and double) or lose everything. In leveraged trading, if you deposit & place an order and it reaches your liquidation level, you lose everything.

Gambling can't be compared to regular trading, as in regular trading, you don't win much and don't lose much either. However, if you're trading with leverage, then that trading can be considered something similar to a gamble.

Well i think that even leverage trading can't be compared to gambling as well, because no matter what trading is always going to depend somewhat on knowing the markets and what you are trying to trade, where is gambling it all depends on your luck even if you try to convince yourself otherwise, trading with leverage and putting a price that the coin is not going to fall down to is not something that you just guess it is something that you need to really look in too and decide where in gambling its all based on preeducated guess.

Topic: Gambling vs. "leveraged" trading - page 8. (Read 1348 times)