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Topic: Garr255 and Werner = scammer trolls - page 2. (Read 1957 times)

hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
June 19, 2013, 08:19:10 PM
#7
I don't know if this really classifies as a scam, underhanded yes, but not really a scam

Actually, it does qualify as a scam.  People have had criminal charges doing the same.

Quote
Auctions[edit]
Shills, or "potted plants", are sometimes employed in auctions. Driving prices up with phony bids, they seek to provoke a bidding war among other participants. Often they are told by the seller precisely how high to bid, as the seller actually pays the price (to himself, of course) if the item does not sell, losing only the auction fees. Shilling has a substantially higher rate of occurrence in online auctions, where any user with multiple accounts can bid on their own items. Many online auction sites employ sophisticated (and usually secret) methods to detect collusion. The online auction site eBay forbids shilling; its rules do not allow friends or employees of a person selling an item to bid on the item.[6]
In his book Fake: Forgery, Lies, & eBay, Kenneth Walton describes how he and his cohorts placed shill bids on hundreds of eBay auctions over the course of a year. Walton and his associates were charged and convicted of fraud by the United States Attorney for their eBay shill bidding.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill#Auctions

I didn't know that, it still doesn't seem like it should be Illegal. No one is forcing the other person to outbid the guy. If someone is willing to pay over the shill bid, then isn't the item worth that ?



Auctions are not about what something is worth, they're about opportunity. Shill bidding something up 10 BTC steals 10 BTC worth of discount opportunity away from the winner, effectively scamming them of 10 BTC. You'll find that if you keep arguing this, you're going to come around to arguing why my troll bet with some members of the community was just trolling and not a real bet and the outcome of this thread will not be pretty.
sr. member
Activity: 307
Merit: 250
June 19, 2013, 08:18:29 PM
#6
I don't know if this really classifies as a scam, underhanded yes, but not really a scam

Actually, it does qualify as a scam.  People have had criminal charges doing the same.

Quote
Auctions[edit]
Shills, or "potted plants", are sometimes employed in auctions. Driving prices up with phony bids, they seek to provoke a bidding war among other participants. Often they are told by the seller precisely how high to bid, as the seller actually pays the price (to himself, of course) if the item does not sell, losing only the auction fees. Shilling has a substantially higher rate of occurrence in online auctions, where any user with multiple accounts can bid on their own items. Many online auction sites employ sophisticated (and usually secret) methods to detect collusion. The online auction site eBay forbids shilling; its rules do not allow friends or employees of a person selling an item to bid on the item.[6]
In his book Fake: Forgery, Lies, & eBay, Kenneth Walton describes how he and his cohorts placed shill bids on hundreds of eBay auctions over the course of a year. Walton and his associates were charged and convicted of fraud by the United States Attorney for their eBay shill bidding.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill#Auctions

I didn't know that, it still doesn't seem like it should be Illegal. No one is forcing the other person to outbid the guy. If someone is willing to pay over the shill bid, then isn't the item worth that ?

hero member
Activity: 557
Merit: 500
June 19, 2013, 08:05:28 PM
#5
I don't know if this really classifies as a scam, underhanded yes, but not really a scam

Actually, it does qualify as a scam.  People have had criminal charges doing the same.

Quote
Auctions[edit]
Shills, or "potted plants", are sometimes employed in auctions. Driving prices up with phony bids, they seek to provoke a bidding war among other participants. Often they are told by the seller precisely how high to bid, as the seller actually pays the price (to himself, of course) if the item does not sell, losing only the auction fees. Shilling has a substantially higher rate of occurrence in online auctions, where any user with multiple accounts can bid on their own items. Many online auction sites employ sophisticated (and usually secret) methods to detect collusion. The online auction site eBay forbids shilling; its rules do not allow friends or employees of a person selling an item to bid on the item.[6]
In his book Fake: Forgery, Lies, & eBay, Kenneth Walton describes how he and his cohorts placed shill bids on hundreds of eBay auctions over the course of a year. Walton and his associates were charged and convicted of fraud by the United States Attorney for their eBay shill bidding.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill#Auctions
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
June 19, 2013, 07:58:30 PM
#4
I don't know if this really classifies as a scam, underhanded yes, but not really a scam

Well, considering someone probably overpaid because of his shill bids, they are "out" whatever amount they overpaid.  It's akin to him stealing that amount from them.  I say it is scamming.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
June 19, 2013, 07:44:44 PM
#3
Unfortunately, as much as I think he is being mistreated by scumlords on this forum, I have to agree with the evidence regarding this particular event, shill bidding is most definitely scamming .
sr. member
Activity: 307
Merit: 250
June 19, 2013, 07:42:47 PM
#2
I don't know if this really classifies as a scam, underhanded yes, but not really a scam
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
June 19, 2013, 07:21:22 PM
#1
We saw from the BFL fiasco today that Garr255 was posing as someone else on bitcointalk.  It was also pointed out later in that thread that he bid up his own auctions here:

I think a scammer tag is in order. 

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2517566 - thread where Garr255 apologizes for using two accounts (Garr255 and Werner) to troll the forum.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=159808.new#new - auction where he bid on his own jalapeno as "Werner"
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