FWIW: I remembered a huge Pyramid fraud scheme from back in the early 80's that took place in Detroit that had to do with people buying tickets to get in line to receive really cheap TV's and such, which reminded me exactly of what is going on with the GAW/Coinstand scheme. I never did find anything about that specific scheme (and yes they were busted and tossed in the slammer) when I was poking around last night, but I stumbled into the definition of what they were doing on the Pyramid Scheme wiki. I also remember a couple other fraud schemes of this type over the years, but that wiki was the first time I saw it called a "Matrix Pyramid Scheme". Ikeboy is back to his delusional anti-logic hero worship of Homero the Fraudster, just as I predicted he would do when he was posting somewhat critical things about the Paycoin scam a couple days ago. FYI: It does not matter what you want to call a fraud scheme, it is the fact that it involves fraud that is the important part, ikeboy. But, hey, have fun playing your idiotic semantics games.
Edit to add: It is possible that after this shitshow reaches it's obvious conclusion that a new term for the hybrid Ponzi/Pyramid fraud scheme being pulled off by Josh & Co. will arise. I propose "Garza Scheme".
Topic: GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :) - page 1100. (Read 3377956 times)
March 26, 2015, 12:47:54 PM
March 26, 2015, 12:47:35 PM
This is just amazing. Hodor asks about Deposits working on Paycoin.com, but NOT withdrawels. Jaxter & Mr Coins both jump in and LIE about withdrawels working for them even though TeamXPY is stating that the withdrawals are still closed!!! Effing shills. T think they should change the name to Hotel California.Paycoin.com. You can check your coins in, but they never leave.
I think they have mastered Garzaenglish to perfection and meant to say that they got the "stolen" coins back in their account balances, not that they were able to withdraw them.
Oh and someone remind ikeboy - I can't be bothered to unignore him - that MrCEO was promising invites for FastXPY TX IDs (i.e. purchase required), not to mention WHO actually gets those invites. Meets the definition of a matrix scheme to the letter. And no, all of those intricate schemes don't have to be explicitly named in specific laws to be illegal... this could meet many other definitions as well, like illegal gambling/lottery.
That's actually a valid point. That seems like it might fall under online gambling laws, although the legality of those is itself a grey area in the US.
March 26, 2015, 12:46:43 PM
hope you'll not gettin mad about my screens here, but all of them must be collected for posterity...
GAW Josh is a perfect fraudster and is full of shit so is Paycoin foundation and TeamXPY front. Just think they have not fixed a minor bug in wallet software in over 3 months, this is a very
sophisticated scam and they use Cryptsy to dump the coins it is just about collecting your BTC over 300,000 XPY in a day please???
If you're talking about the checkpoint error, I think it was removed in https://github.com/PaycoinFoundation/paycoin/commit/88fbd4b835597398d40141eaca22a1af0a76fc1b, on Feb 11.
They removed the message that displayed the error. They never in fact fixed said error. Covered up the in typical GAW fashion.
Is there a strong reason that the centralized checkpoint system is needed? What exactly is not working that needs to be fixed?
Ya, cause the coin is centralized. GAW controls it all. I thought this was known for some time now?
What do you mean by control, here? If you mean in terms of staking, that isn't true; anyone can stake a block if they own some paycoin. If you mean in terms of owning most of the paycoins in existence, that isn't really known, and we don't know how much they dumped. If you mean control over the code, that's decentralized, just like bitcoin. If they were to push an update that people didn't like, they don't have to upgrade their wallets.
I'm having the feeling you have no idea what checkpoints are here.
I know what a checkpoint is. Are you sure you do? Would you mind providing proof that GAW handed over the coin and that they are not in control of all 51 PC's?
Actually, your argument that the coin is decentralized is quite funny. Yes, TeamPaycoin wants the coin to be decentralized, but there is still a lot GAW has to do yet for it to be that way.
But, I see where this conversation is going. I read your posts, I know how you twist and turn everything and bend truths. Carry on fighting the GAW fight.
What do you mean by "handing over the coin"? Provide definitions for decentralized here. I just asked you to clarify what you were claiming, and what problems there were with the wallet, but you aren't able to say.
You are like trying to explain something to a 4 year old. You are not worth it, very obvious you are an active Hashtalk member, your logic proceeds you. Besides, this originated that the checkpoint error was not fixed. You just want to drag and twist and swindle around. You are not worth it.
Ignore.
March 26, 2015, 12:46:19 PM
So does this mean the $20.00 honors program is off the table 
March 26, 2015, 12:41:16 PM
hope you'll not gettin mad about my screens here, but all of them must be collected for posterity...
GAW Josh is a perfect fraudster and is full of shit so is Paycoin foundation and TeamXPY front. Just think they have not fixed a minor bug in wallet software in over 3 months, this is a very
sophisticated scam and they use Cryptsy to dump the coins it is just about collecting your BTC over 300,000 XPY in a day please???
If you're talking about the checkpoint error, I think it was removed in https://github.com/PaycoinFoundation/paycoin/commit/88fbd4b835597398d40141eaca22a1af0a76fc1b, on Feb 11.
They removed the message that displayed the error. They never in fact fixed said error. Covered up the in typical GAW fashion.
Is there a strong reason that the centralized checkpoint system is needed? What exactly is not working that needs to be fixed?
Ya, cause the coin is centralized. GAW controls it all. I thought this was known for some time now?
What do you mean by control, here? If you mean in terms of staking, that isn't true; anyone can stake a block if they own some paycoin. If you mean in terms of owning most of the paycoins in existence, that isn't really known, and we don't know how much they dumped. If you mean control over the code, that's decentralized, just like bitcoin. If they were to push an update that people didn't like, they don't have to upgrade their wallets.
I'm having the feeling you have no idea what checkpoints are here.
I know what a checkpoint is. Are you sure you do? Would you mind providing proof that GAW handed over the coin and that they are not in control of all 51 PC's?
Actually, your argument that the coin is decentralized is quite funny. Yes, TeamPaycoin wants the coin to be decentralized, but there is still a lot GAW has to do yet for it to be that way.
But, I see where this conversation is going. I read your posts, I know how you twist and turn everything and bend truths. Carry on fighting the GAW fight.
What do you mean by "handing over the coin"? Provide definitions for decentralized here. I just asked you to clarify what you were claiming, and what problems there were with the wallet, but you aren't able to say.
March 26, 2015, 12:39:24 PM
From the slackjawed yokel:
And it suddenly dawned upon him - verily, as if a revelation from a higher power!
Any person of average intelligence would have seen this gaping flaw within twelve seconds of first dreaming up '$20 floor' plan. And _this_ is the person that so many are putting their faith into? The crypto messiah that will out-innovate the entire industry?
It takes a certain kind of 'special' to deposit one's faith in such an idiot.
Quote
I just c=
an not
>>>>>>>> believe I never thought of this before.
an not
>>>>>>>> believe I never thought of this before.
And it suddenly dawned upon him - verily, as if a revelation from a higher power!
Any person of average intelligence would have seen this gaping flaw within twelve seconds of first dreaming up '$20 floor' plan. And _this_ is the person that so many are putting their faith into? The crypto messiah that will out-innovate the entire industry?
It takes a certain kind of 'special' to deposit one's faith in such an idiot.
March 26, 2015, 12:39:17 PM
Precedents get set at some point... there always has to be a first....
Could it be we have found "The One"?
Could it be we have found "The One"?
I made two points, one that it isn't a matrix scheme, and two that matrix scheme weren't yet found to be illegal in the US. It's very likely they eventually will be, it probably depends on how much disclosure there was in any given case. But even if it was found to be illegal, that's irrelevant to coinstand.
ikeboy, the word you seem to keep missing is not ponzi, not scam, not the matrix (great movie!)
FRAUD...FRAUD...FRAUD
Paul made two claims, both of which are demonstrably false. He said that matrix schemes are illegal, although there is no law or precedent in the US about that, and he said that coinstand was a matrix schemes.
What are you claiming here? If you're trying to defend him, explain why my post is wrong. What does fraud have to do with which of us is right?
The issue is that GAW and MrGanZA™ is untrustworthy, dishonest and now there is a search and seizure document that shows this to be a fraud, that is the topic at hand.
No one cares about your pissing contest with Paul or a fucking wiki about matrix schemes. Maybe it fits, maybe it doesn't. You're just back blasting the pages with your usual bullshit.
BTW, their not new
https://www.ftc.gov/public-statements/1998/05/pyramid-schemes
If I might be right, how is it bullshit?
March 26, 2015, 12:39:11 PM
hope you'll not gettin mad about my screens here, but all of them must be collected for posterity...
GAW Josh is a perfect fraudster and is full of shit so is Paycoin foundation and TeamXPY front. Just think they have not fixed a minor bug in wallet software in over 3 months, this is a very
sophisticated scam and they use Cryptsy to dump the coins it is just about collecting your BTC over 300,000 XPY in a day please???
If you're talking about the checkpoint error, I think it was removed in https://github.com/PaycoinFoundation/paycoin/commit/88fbd4b835597398d40141eaca22a1af0a76fc1b, on Feb 11.
They removed the message that displayed the error. They never in fact fixed said error. Covered up the in typical GAW fashion.
Is there a strong reason that the centralized checkpoint system is needed? What exactly is not working that needs to be fixed?
Ya, cause the coin is centralized. GAW controls it all. I thought this was known for some time now?
What do you mean by control, here? If you mean in terms of staking, that isn't true; anyone can stake a block if they own some paycoin. If you mean in terms of owning most of the paycoins in existence, that isn't really known, and we don't know how much they dumped. If you mean control over the code, that's decentralized, just like bitcoin. If they were to push an update that people didn't like, they don't have to upgrade their wallets.
I'm having the feeling you have no idea what checkpoints are here.
I know what a checkpoint is. Are you sure you do? Would you mind providing proof that GAW handed over the coin and that they are not in control of all 51 PC's?
Actually, your argument that the coin is decentralized is quite funny. Yes, TeamPaycoin wants the coin to be decentralized, but there is still a lot GAW has to do yet for it to be that way.
But, I see where this conversation is going. I read your posts, I know how you twist and turn everything and bend truths. Carry on fighting the GAW fight.
March 26, 2015, 12:37:46 PM
https://www.ftc.gov/public-statements/1998/05/pyramid-schemes
A Matrix Scheme is a type of Pyramid Scheme and contrary to what you want to believe, ikeboy, these are definitely considered FRAUD and FRAUD is illegal. Your hero is a fraudster, deal with it.
Specifically dealing with the Coinstand fraud scheme: Paycoins are the entry fee to get in the line to receive the fabulously priced merchandise (.50 = $20!!!
). The economics of this scheme does not work, the whole scam is centered around getting more people to buy entry (buying more XPY, which is coming from Homero&Co) into the line, and only a very few will (can) actually get the fabulous deal. This is in fact fraud, but hey, you live in your own universe where facts are irrelevant, so I suggest putting up some juicy Buy Bids so your Hero Homero can rip you off even firther. ENJOY, ikeboy!
A Matrix Scheme is a type of Pyramid Scheme and contrary to what you want to believe, ikeboy, these are definitely considered FRAUD and FRAUD is illegal. Your hero is a fraudster, deal with it.
Specifically dealing with the Coinstand fraud scheme: Paycoins are the entry fee to get in the line to receive the fabulously priced merchandise (.50 = $20!!!
). The economics of this scheme does not work, the whole scam is centered around getting more people to buy entry (buying more XPY, which is coming from Homero&Co) into the line, and only a very few will (can) actually get the fabulous deal. This is in fact fraud, but hey, you live in your own universe where facts are irrelevant, so I suggest putting up some juicy Buy Bids so your Hero Homero can rip you off even firther. ENJOY, ikeboy!I already sourced above that there aren't any laws against matrix schemes in the US. Equating two different scenarios doesn't work very well in law.
Your other point would be valid, except you don't need to own paycoin to apply for an invite (which would be equivalent to getting on the list). You can sign up for an invite for free.
If you're arguing that the list consists of people that bought, then you'd need to show that those people didn't get their item. It looked like they only gave out a handful of invites, which they could easily subsidize.
March 26, 2015, 12:36:58 PM
Precedents get set at some point... there always has to be a first....
Could it be we have found "The One"?
Could it be we have found "The One"?
I made two points, one that it isn't a matrix scheme, and two that matrix scheme weren't yet found to be illegal in the US. It's very likely they eventually will be, it probably depends on how much disclosure there was in any given case. But even if it was found to be illegal, that's irrelevant to coinstand.
ikeboy, the word you seem to keep missing is not ponzi, not scam, not the matrix (great movie!)
FRAUD...FRAUD...FRAUD
Paul made two claims, both of which are demonstrably false. He said that matrix schemes are illegal, although there is no law or precedent in the US about that, and he said that coinstand was a matrix schemes.
What are you claiming here? If you're trying to defend him, explain why my post is wrong. What does fraud have to do with which of us is right?
The issue is that GAW and MrGanZA™ is untrustworthy, dishonest and now there is a search and seizure document that shows this to be a fraud, that is the topic at hand.
No one cares about your pissing contest with Paul or a fucking wiki about matrix schemes. Maybe it fits, maybe it doesn't. You're just back blasting the pages with your usual bullshit.
BTW, their not new
https://www.ftc.gov/public-statements/1998/05/pyramid-schemes
March 26, 2015, 12:33:39 PM
This is just amazing. Hodor asks about Deposits working on Paycoin.com, but NOT withdrawels. Jaxter & Mr Coins both jump in and LIE about withdrawels working for them even though TeamXPY is stating that the withdrawals are still closed!!! Effing shills. T think they should change the name to Hotel California.Paycoin.com. You can check your coins in, but they never leave.
I think they have mastered Garzaenglish to perfection and meant to say that they got the "stolen" coins back in their account balances, not that they were able to withdraw them.
Oh and someone remind ikeboy - I can't be bothered to unignore him - that MrCEO was promising invites for FastXPY TX IDs (i.e. purchase required), not to mention WHO actually gets those invites. Meets the definition of a matrix scheme to the letter. And no, all of those intricate schemes don't have to be explicitly named in specific laws to be illegal... this could meet many other definitions as well, like illegal gambling/lottery.
March 26, 2015, 12:33:08 PM
Has there been any statement by Adam (huey) after this report of him being investigated? I see on paycoin.com he hasnt posted in 2 weeks: http://talk.paycoin.com/profile/comments/4/Huey
March 26, 2015, 12:29:07 PM
https://www.ftc.gov/public-statements/1998/05/pyramid-schemes
A Matrix Scheme is a type of Pyramid Scheme and contrary to what you want to believe, ikeboy, these are definitely considered FRAUD and FRAUD is illegal. Your hero is a fraudster, deal with it.
Specifically dealing with the Coinstand fraud scheme: Paycoins are the entry fee to get in the line to receive the fabulously priced merchandise (.50 = $20!!!). The economics of this scheme does not work, the whole scam is centered around getting more people to buy entry (buying more XPY, which is coming from Homero&Co) into the line, and only a very few will (can) actually get the fabulous deal. This is in fact fraud, but hey, you live in your own universe where facts are irrelevant, so I suggest putting up some juicy Buy Bids so your Hero Homero can rip you off even further. ENJOY, ikeboy!
A Matrix Scheme is a type of Pyramid Scheme and contrary to what you want to believe, ikeboy, these are definitely considered FRAUD and FRAUD is illegal. Your hero is a fraudster, deal with it.
Specifically dealing with the Coinstand fraud scheme: Paycoins are the entry fee to get in the line to receive the fabulously priced merchandise (.50 = $20!!!
). The economics of this scheme does not work, the whole scam is centered around getting more people to buy entry (buying more XPY, which is coming from Homero&Co) into the line, and only a very few will (can) actually get the fabulous deal. This is in fact fraud, but hey, you live in your own universe where facts are irrelevant, so I suggest putting up some juicy Buy Bids so your Hero Homero can rip you off even further. ENJOY, ikeboy! March 26, 2015, 12:23:05 PM
snip
And I was the consumer, not my job to know what needs to be fixed or what is not working. It is my job to be provided with a working product. Which is obvious GAW is incapable of providing.
And I was the consumer, not my job to know what needs to be fixed or what is not working. It is my job to be provided with a working product. Which is obvious GAW is incapable of providing.
Again, what part about the paycoin wallet doesn't work?
March 26, 2015, 12:21:13 PM
hope you'll not gettin mad about my screens here, but all of them must be collected for posterity...
GAW Josh is a perfect fraudster and is full of shit so is Paycoin foundation and TeamXPY front. Just think they have not fixed a minor bug in wallet software in over 3 months, this is a very
sophisticated scam and they use Cryptsy to dump the coins it is just about collecting your BTC over 300,000 XPY in a day please???
If you're talking about the checkpoint error, I think it was removed in https://github.com/PaycoinFoundation/paycoin/commit/88fbd4b835597398d40141eaca22a1af0a76fc1b, on Feb 11.
They removed the message that displayed the error. They never in fact fixed said error. Covered up the in typical GAW fashion.
Is there a strong reason that the centralized checkpoint system is needed? What exactly is not working that needs to be fixed?
Ya, cause the coin is centralized. GAW controls it all. I thought this was known for some time now?
What do you mean by control, here? If you mean in terms of staking, that isn't true; anyone can stake a block if they own some paycoin. If you mean in terms of owning most of the paycoins in existence, that isn't really known, and we don't know how much they dumped. If you mean control over the code, that's decentralized, just like bitcoin. If they were to push an update that people didn't like, they don't have to upgrade their wallets.
I'm having the feeling you have no idea what checkpoints are here.
March 26, 2015, 12:17:36 PM
Precedents get set at some point... there always has to be a first....
Could it be we have found "The One"?
Could it be we have found "The One"?
I made two points, one that it isn't a matrix scheme, and two that matrix scheme weren't yet found to be illegal in the US. It's very likely they eventually will be, it probably depends on how much disclosure there was in any given case. But even if it was found to be illegal, that's irrelevant to coinstand.
ikeboy, the word you seem to keep missing is not ponzi, not scam, not the matrix (great movie!)
FRAUD...FRAUD...FRAUD
Paul made two claims, both of which are demonstrably false. He said that matrix schemes are illegal, although there is no law or precedent in the US about that, and he said that coinstand was a matrix schemes.
What are you claiming here? If you're trying to defend him, explain why my post is wrong. What does fraud have to do with which of us is right?
March 26, 2015, 12:15:54 PM
hope you'll not gettin mad about my screens here, but all of them must be collected for posterity...
GAW Josh is a perfect fraudster and is full of shit so is Paycoin foundation and TeamXPY front. Just think they have not fixed a minor bug in wallet software in over 3 months, this is a very
sophisticated scam and they use Cryptsy to dump the coins it is just about collecting your BTC over 300,000 XPY in a day please???
If you're talking about the checkpoint error, I think it was removed in https://github.com/PaycoinFoundation/paycoin/commit/88fbd4b835597398d40141eaca22a1af0a76fc1b, on Feb 11.
They removed the message that displayed the error. They never in fact fixed said error. Covered up the in typical GAW fashion.
Is there a strong reason that the centralized checkpoint system is needed? What exactly is not working that needs to be fixed?
Ya, cause the coin is centralized. GAW controls it all. I thought this was known for some time now?
And I was the consumer, not my job to know what needs to be fixed or what is not working. It is my job to be provided with a working product. Which is obvious GAW is incapable of providing.
March 26, 2015, 12:13:23 PM
This is just amazing. Hodor asks about Deposits working on Paycoin.com, but NOT withdrawels. Jaxter & Mr Coins both jump in and LIE about withdrawels working for them even though TeamXPY is stating that the withdrawals are still closed!!! Effing shills. T think they should change the name to Hotel California.Paycoin.com. You can check your coins in, but they never leave.
https://hashtalk.org/topic/35037/paycoin-com-working-yet/6
arxhive: https://archive.today/b90Gp
Thanks Suckers!! We will let you access your coins after we dump the price into the toilet, Uhmkaaay? But we will of course keep ACCEPTING deposits! WTF!?
Cue the Adam Matlack Band. ! Lights! Cameraaaaa. ACTION!!
https://hashtalk.org/topic/35037/paycoin-com-working-yet/6
arxhive: https://archive.today/b90Gp
Thanks Suckers!! We will let you access your coins after we dump the price into the toilet, Uhmkaaay? But we will of course keep ACCEPTING deposits! WTF!?
Cue the Adam Matlack Band. ! Lights! Cameraaaaa. ACTION!!
March 26, 2015, 12:11:29 PM
I don't follow GAW/Paycoin for anything other than the comedy gold and lulz, but what is the significance of owning all 15 prime controllers ?
Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of decentralization ? Was XPY never supposed to be decentralized to begin with ? Am I making a bad guess at what "prime controllers" are supposed to be ?
Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of decentralization ? Was XPY never supposed to be decentralized to begin with ? Am I making a bad guess at what "prime controllers" are supposed to be ?
wow just wow. he just cant stop lying. time to dig archive.today link for the emails where he talks about this
edit: ahh here is one of the emails
https://archive.today/qKW22
edit: ahh here is one of the emails
https://archive.today/qKW22
There are more than 15 Prime Controllers. There's around 50.
He might have not lied... see the SEC asked for a list of investors.
This would imply a complete a list of internal and external investors. If GAW / Josh owned the remaining investors he wouldn't have to give any other names
March 26, 2015, 12:09:46 PM
Precedents get set at some point... there always has to be a first....
Could it be we have found "The One"?
Could it be we have found "The One"?
I made two points, one that it isn't a matrix scheme, and two that matrix scheme weren't yet found to be illegal in the US. It's very likely they eventually will be, it probably depends on how much disclosure there was in any given case. But even if it was found to be illegal, that's irrelevant to coinstand.
ikeboy, the word you seem to keep missing is not ponzi, not scam, not the matrix (great movie!)
FRAUD...FRAUD...FRAUD
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