Topic: GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :) - page 1715. (Read 3377956 times)
January 09, 2015, 05:38:04 PM
Bearish.
January 09, 2015, 05:34:43 PM
On the other hand, it's quite possible we misunderstood the complex math behind "About 60% of the 12 million coins are going to customers, 40% are going to investors."
Even if it's not an outright lie, it could mean 55% to customers, 35% to investors, 10% - some pocket change to GAW, brokerage fee for the ICO perhaps. Of course many other scenarios are possible. The mysterious investors could include Paybase LLC for example.
Here is another thing. 40% of 12 million is 4.8 million. Prime controllers need to hold 6+ million. If investors (i.e. Prime Controller owners) got only 4.8 million, who and how filled the remaining 1.2 million?
Even if it's not an outright lie, it could mean 55% to customers, 35% to investors, 10% - some pocket change to GAW, brokerage fee for the ICO perhaps. Of course many other scenarios are possible. The mysterious investors could include Paybase LLC for example.
Here is another thing. 40% of 12 million is 4.8 million. Prime controllers need to hold 6+ million. If investors (i.e. Prime Controller owners) got only 4.8 million, who and how filled the remaining 1.2 million?
On the first point, I linked to Josh's statement that Paybase coins would come from GAW mining of the 500K. If he was "hiding" GAW allocations from the 12,000,000 coins in block 1, that is highly misleading in context; I cannot imagine anyone making the argument with a straight face that "about" meant that GAW was getting a cut.
If Paybase LLC was an ICO investor, then they would have had to pay in $2 per coin (which was disclosed to me to be the ICO price in the thread I linked to). Again, you cannot argue they are an ICO investor if they got coins for nothing. While this is a possible scenario, I doubt that Paybase paid GAW anything so again, we are back to the statement that Josh made that Paybase coins would come from mining the 500K post block 1 coins.
Regarding the remaining 1.2 million, recall that Josh said there were last minute investors. These were likely ICO purchases for investment, not prime controllers (since the prime controller allocations would not have been made last minute, they had to hard code them in).
January 09, 2015, 05:33:15 PM
Question,
To all those that are anti-PayCoin, did you make some money with PayCoin? Just curious. I have. Watching the up and downs has put a little extra BTC in my wallet.
To all those that are anti-PayCoin, did you make some money with PayCoin? Just curious. I have. Watching the up and downs has put a little extra BTC in my wallet.
January 09, 2015, 05:31:11 PM
from @bubbamark on HT
I think you all better be ready, some of the larger customers were buying last night. And if the large customers were buying well so was I just not in the same quantities, I only had 2 BTC to spare but they were spending 40. So if they are prepared to spend that amount, I will follow.
I think you all better be ready, some of the larger customers were buying last night. And if the large customers were buying well so was I just not in the same quantities, I only had 2 BTC to spare but they were spending 40. So if they are prepared to spend that amount, I will follow.
January 09, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
I mentioned back on Jan 5th that the terms of service authorize pre-mining of payocoin - not really following today, but thought I'd make this screenshot of the TOS, w/ the pre-mining language highlighted, handy in case there's any question:
http://imgur.com/VMIKafg
http://imgur.com/VMIKafg
As I mentioned before 20 or so posts up, the TOS is only relevant to purchases of coins from GAW. The myriad of misrepresentations (concerning "no premining" and that GAW coins will come from mining the 500K coins, again see above) are material to folks who (a) bought hashlets prior to the ICO in reliance on Josh's representations, (b) bought coins in the ICO.
The TOS on paybase have nothing to do with those categories of purchasers/investors who could have been misled by Josh's promises.
I agree - was making a resource available in case others forgot or new people hadn't seen. Its relevant precisely because of the representations of no pre-mining of paycoin - impacts anybody obtaining them for value notwithstanding where or from whom they're purchased. A clear lie and misrepresentation (including a flip-flop after people materially relied on the original no pre-mining representation in obtaining paycoin) on several levels.
January 09, 2015, 05:28:55 PM
Looks stable but probably is bearish. Low volume. Maybe the other exchanges are livelier.
January 09, 2015, 05:26:45 PM
I mentioned back on Jan 5th that the terms of service authorize pre-mining of payocoin - not really following today, but thought I'd make this screenshot of the TOS, w/ the pre-mining language highlighted, handy in case there's any question:
http://imgur.com/VMIKafg
http://imgur.com/VMIKafg
As I mentioned before 20 or so posts up, the TOS is only relevant to purchases of coins from GAW. The myriad of misrepresentations (concerning "no premining" and that GAW coins will come from mining the 500K coins, again see above) are material to folks who (a) bought hashlets prior to the ICO in reliance on Josh's representations, (b) bought coins in the ICO, and/or (c) bought or staked coins in hashtakers (or converted to hashtakers).
The TOS on paybase have nothing to do with those categories of purchasers/investors who could have been misled by Josh's promises.
Also, while it was disclosed that there would be premining for ICO investors for cash sales and customers for hashpoint conversions, Josh expressly promised not to premine for Paybase coins. See above posts.
January 09, 2015, 05:24:23 PM
I think this scam is running out of legs.. Its gone full circle.. hardware sales-mining-cloud mining- Project Prime- Selling used hardware.. 
You're a genius. Next GAW plan... wait for it... wireless Internet for Vermont villages!
Decentralized taxi service w/ ferraris - pay for it only w/ ferraricoin. ferrari already on board!
January 09, 2015, 05:17:29 PM
I think this scam is running out of legs.. Its gone full circle.. hardware sales-mining-cloud mining- Project Prime- Selling used hardware..
Sort of expected this though... https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9738766
January 09, 2015, 05:10:33 PM
I think this scam is running out of legs.. Its gone full circle.. hardware sales-mining-cloud mining- Project Prime- Selling used hardware..
You're a genius. Next GAW plan... wait for it... wireless Internet for Vermont villages!
January 09, 2015, 05:07:53 PM
I'm probably missing something but it looks like the $20 estimate (allegedly from banks and analysts, not just pulled out of Josh's ass!) was based on an assumption of 250 million coins total. So the number of coins changed to 12.5 million, but the $20 per coin estimate wasn't affected?
12.5 million coins * $20 = 250 million USD market cap.
The 250 million coins figure was made up by Allen for some reason.
Also 250 million USD is mentioned in the WSJ blog:
http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/11/25/bitbeat-gaw-miners-to-launch-bitcoin-challenger-paycoin/
Quote
When the coin opens to the public on Jan. 2 with what Mr. Garza says will be an anticipated market capitalization of $250 million, the company will partly back that with a store of fiat currency worth around $100 million.
January 09, 2015, 04:57:08 PM
I think this scam is running out of legs.. Its gone full circle.. hardware sales-mining-cloud mining- Project Prime- Selling used hardware..
January 09, 2015, 04:54:09 PM
So is it even plausible that 60% of the premine went to customers for hashpoints?
That was already dissected by jimmothy eons ago:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9833591
tl;dr: Absurd.
It's not very long:
Quote
7.2m * 400 hp = 2.9 billion hashpoints
20hp/day/mh for 2 months would be 1200hp
2.9b/1200 = 2500 GH/s
20hp/day/mh for 2 months would be 1200hp
2.9b/1200 = 2500 GH/s
So is there a reasonable estimate of the hash rate available (assuming GAW actually had all the hash rate they claimed)? That would give an estimate on the number of XPY that could have gone to customers for hashpoints.
Litecoin network hashrate has never exceeded 2000 GH/s, mostly between 700-1500 GH/s during the time when GAW operated hashlets. Only about 20-30% of it was ever "Unknown", i.e. not claimed by any pool (currently only about 10%). So best case scenario - 500 GH/s.
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/difficulty
https://www.litecoinpool.org/pools
On the other hand, if they never mined Scrypt, we know they purchased 5 PH/s of SHA256 hardware. Price-wise 1 MH/s scrypt cost about as much as 20 GH/s SHA256 (e.g. two Genesis hashlets at $10 or one Zen at $20). Maintenance cost equivalent was 1 MH/s Scrypt = 40 GH/s SHA256. So with the 5 PH/s they could have covered between 125 - 250 GH/s of "Scrypt equivalent" hashrate.
Between 125 and 500 GH/s would yield between 5 to 20 TIMES fewer hashpoints than the 60% figure would imply.
All of the above is of course pure conjecture, because there are no hard numbers on any of it.
January 09, 2015, 04:53:45 PM
Just tried xpy never tried btc but think its both
well if its btc too then thats a big deal it could mean its collapsed i'm pretty sure there's a .001 fee on the transfers and it doesn't automatically deduct it you have to do the math
January 09, 2015, 04:53:13 PM
nowhere in the TOS says we can flog off the premine anytime we want
January 09, 2015, 04:47:59 PM
I mentioned back on Jan 5th that the terms of service authorize pre-mining of payocoin - not really following today, but thought I'd make this screenshot of the TOS, w/ the pre-mining language highlighted, handy in case there's any question:
http://imgur.com/VMIKafg
http://imgur.com/VMIKafg
January 09, 2015, 04:47:02 PM
Just tried xpy never tried btc but think its both
January 09, 2015, 04:45:13 PM
Zencloud blocking all withdrawls one way of making sure you dont cash out
Including BTC or just XPY?
January 09, 2015, 04:43:17 PM
Zencloud blocking all withdrawls one way of making sure you dont cash out
January 09, 2015, 04:39:35 PM
So is it even plausible that 60% of the premine went to customers for hashpoints?
That was already dissected by jimmothy eons ago:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9833591
tl;dr: Absurd.
It's not very long:
Quote
7.2m * 400 hp = 2.9 billion hashpoints
20hp/day/mh for 2 months would be 1200hp
2.9b/1200 = 2500 GH/s
20hp/day/mh for 2 months would be 1200hp
2.9b/1200 = 2500 GH/s
So is there a reasonable estimate of the hash rate available (assuming GAW actually had all the hash rate they claimed)? That would give an estimate on the number of XPY that could have gone to customers for hashpoints.
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