GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :) - page 2392.

suchmoon

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https://bpip.org

Quote from: numanoid on November 26, 2014, 01:12:34 AM

Quote from: elrugrim on November 26, 2014, 12:22:02 AM

Thanks for the answer. It's in interesting interaction with crypto and the legal system under US law, since alot of the more scammy things that exist happen outside the boundries of said US law. Do appreciate your input.

Scott's assertion is somewhat ridiculous. If you were an insider to a Ponzi and knowingly promoted and invested for your gain, then yes, you may be liable. That said, "investors" of a ponzi, that don't know it's a ponzi are NOT liable under any case that I've seen. Many high profile people invested into Madoff's Ponzi that, in turn, made it so successful. None of these people, who were not in on the scheme, had any criminal prosecution.

They key word is "collaborate" which is clear in its meaning of "working together". An unaware early investor is NOT liable for criminal nor civil litigation.

Scott, if you disagree, please post examples. I could find nothing.

I can't speak for Scott and IANAL but I think he might be referring to "Ponzi clawback" and yes, that is a thing.

zarton

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Just saw the newsleeter, it seems a new miner or limited miner. Let's see this friday.

galdur

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So what´s with the shitcoin that´s still trading at Cryptsy ?

PYC, Paycoin.

Is that going to coexist with this one ?

suchmoon

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https://bpip.org

Quote from: Snipe85 on November 26, 2014, 12:58:52 AM

I see lot of people registering on the forum just to join this thread. They should give you an award or something. Just sayin' Tongue

Who, me? More likely theymos would bill me for extra bandwidth and disk space and I don't think he accepts hashpoints (yes, that's a pathetic attempt to put this back on topic).

numanoid

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Quote from: elrugrim on November 26, 2014, 12:22:02 AM

Thanks for the answer. It's in interesting interaction with crypto and the legal system under US law, since alot of the more scammy things that exist happen outside the boundries of said US law. Do appreciate your input.

Scott's assertion is somewhat ridiculous. If you were an insider to a Ponzi and knowingly promoted and invested for your gain, then yes, you may be liable. That said, "investors" of a ponzi, that don't know it's a ponzi are NOT liable under any case that I've seen. Many high profile people invested into Madoff's Ponzi that, in turn, made it so successful. None of these people, who were not in on the scheme, had any criminal prosecution.

They key word is "collaborate" which is clear in its meaning of "working together". An unaware early investor is NOT liable for criminal nor civil litigation.

Scott, if you disagree, please post examples. I could find nothing.

Searing

copper member

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Clueless!

Quote from: suchmoon on November 26, 2014, 01:04:30 AM

Quote from: Searing on November 26, 2014, 12:59:28 AM

Back to my question (waivering on keeping my GAW tag line below)

WHEN if ever is this new GAW Paycoin going to have/and or allow home miners or others not on the GAW network to possibly MINE coins w/o
the purchase of a virtural miner?

just saying I have a 567gh KNC Jupiter from 0ct 2013 sitting here ..I would give the guy cred if such asic sha256 units could
redirect to this coin...

if it is all and or only virtual mining yeah..or NOT AT THIS TIME TO BE DETERMINED well that tells me much too and time to look for a new tagline

(sigh I liked that 0.10 btc a month for 50 posts)

still on fence half the folk swear by gaw half the folks say he is the next BFL with bigger $$$ backers

That's an interesting question, and it doesn't seem to be answered on this timeline: http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/376190/GAW-Timeline/

Technically it should be possible once PayCoin is launched, i.e. the network and the blockchain become available - sometime between December 15 and January 2.

Sorry can't help you more, there is not enough information on that.

if i was gonna do such a paycoin deal (even if it was a scam) I would to it with an open pool and sha256 outdated hardware it would create buzz..every frigging old
sha 256 miner would be poised at the launch.....would make quite the media splash...

but then again that run away horse you would have a hard time 'spinning' the facts on how well the coin was doing etc..you'd be giving up control

my guess is because we have NOT heard such touted...we will get 'in the future' comment

again if all vitural controlled by gaw this paycoin etc...well then that will tell us much

quite truthfully that is what i expect

but man if you wanted to confuse me on your long term intentions towards home miners make it an accessable pool based coin

and i'd be back to fence sitting and scratching my head

i'm sure this will get cleared up here soon...just saying the fact it is not touted means to me it is likely not being done or considered

my 2c worth not that i know squat (i bought a no roi no refund titan from knc)

maildir

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It has nothing to do with Miners, Mining, Crypto Currency or anything remotely related. It is all thinly disguised as so.

It is a scheme to sign up "eyeballs" and then sell the whole thing. You can just as well create an internet forum, sign up as many users as you can, and then peddle it to some marketers.

This is what is happening with this faux crypto currency.

suchmoon

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https://bpip.org

Quote from: Searing on November 26, 2014, 12:59:28 AM

Back to my question (waivering on keeping my GAW tag line below)

WHEN if ever is this new GAW Paycoin going to have/and or allow home miners or others not on the GAW network to possibly MINE coins w/o
the purchase of a virtural miner?

just saying I have a 567gh KNC Jupiter from 0ct 2013 sitting here ..I would give the guy cred if such asic sha256 units could
redirect to this coin...

if it is all and or only virtual mining yeah..or NOT AT THIS TIME TO BE DETERMINED well that tells me much too and time to look for a new tagline

(sigh I liked that 0.10 btc a month for 50 posts)

still on fence half the folk swear by gaw half the folks say he is the next BFL with bigger $$$ backers

That's an interesting question, and it doesn't seem to be answered on this timeline: http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/376190/GAW-Timeline/

Technically it should be possible once PayCoin is launched, i.e. the network and the blockchain become available - sometime between December 15 and January 2.

Sorry can't help you more, there is not enough information on that.

Searing

copper member

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1465

Clueless!

Back to my question (waivering on keeping my GAW tag line below)

WHEN if ever is this new GAW Paycoin going to have/and or allow home miners or others not on the GAW network to possibly MINE coins w/o
the purchase of a virtural miner?

just saying I have a 567gh KNC Jupiter from 0ct 2013 sitting here ..I would give the guy cred if such asic sha256 units could
redirect to this coin...

if it is all and or only virtual mining yeah..or NOT AT THIS TIME TO BE DETERMINED well that tells me much too and time to look for a new tagline

(sigh I liked that 0.10 btc a month for 50 posts)

still on fence half the folk swear by gaw half the folks say he is the next BFL with bigger $$$ backers

Snipe85

sr. member

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Infleum

I see lot of people registering on the forum just to join this thread. They should give you an award or something. Just sayin' Tongue

sburn

newbie

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Quote from: suchmoon on November 26, 2014, 12:48:56 AM

If the user above me is this https://hashtalk.org/user/sburn

Please exercise extreme caution interacting with this user. Nothing good can come out of it. Don't say I didn't warn you.

One and the same.

Thanks, suchmoon. I hope your helpful post does cull out the folks who want to argue without bringing actual facts, or at a minimum, reasoned opinions.

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

If the user above me is this https://hashtalk.org/user/sburn

Please exercise extreme caution interacting with this user. Nothing good can come out of it. Don't say I didn't warn you.

sburn

newbie

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Quote from: KC6TTR on November 25, 2014, 11:23:53 PM

However, continuing to support that scheme after being notified of the potential and likelihood of it being a Ponzi situation opens those collaborating with the source facilitating the scheme up to liability as well. Just saying...

Please cite any law or case where such a thing has happened. While you're at it, provide a legal definition of "collaborating" and "notified". Are you somehow suggesting that your posting on a random Internet forum is some kind of legally valid notification? Are you somehow suggesting that GAW customers who might read such a random Internet forum and don't close their account now open themselves up to some kind of, in you words, "liability"?

You're tossing out a bunch of legal-sounding verbiage here, so it's not unreasonable for a reader to ask what your exact legal qualifications and training are and what statutes or cases support your position.

elrugrim

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Quote from: KC6TTR on November 26, 2014, 12:15:48 AM

Quote from: elrugrim on November 25, 2014, 11:43:22 PM

Scott-

Question for you, and if you can't legally answer it, that I guess is understandible, because it is of a legal nature.

I know your saying that those who Endorse a Ponzi and make their ROI while being aware of it's nature as said ponzi would also be liable legally. But truth be told, isn't it anyone who is involved? Not for legal purposes of liability, but in terms of restitution, I.E. Some people who didn't know Madoff was a scam did get in and out and came out ahead, but the amount they came out ahead was still subject to seizure to cover the losses of later investors, I thought.

Thus then, if that situation comes to pass, are you going to hold any btc you profited from your divesture of GAW items for such a situation?

Not a criticism, just curious because this is definately one of the most interesting threads with some far reaching implications, if you ignore all the pointless posts.

It all comes down to verifiable intent and the time frame of the association. Regardless, the prosecuting authority has the final say on who they hold liable and for what. I agree with much of what your saying. If/when I testify in court, I am already prepared to show with verifiable backup how much I has invested with GAW and how much I sold it all for. It is no secrete who I sold the bulk of everything to and I contend I only realized approx. a 73% ROI, which is fine as my focus was to get out and NOT be a party to what I considered at that stage to be a scheme well in the making.

Smart and honest business is much more valuable to me than pocketing a few dozen BTC.

Scott-

Thanks for the answer. It's in interesting interaction with crypto and the legal system under US law, since alot of the more scammy things that exist happen outside the boundries of said US law. Do appreciate your input.

maildir

legendary

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I fear we are building his product for him as we speak, liken it to a Sam's Club or Costco, with membership and card in hand. Bulk buying power at work. If he signs up 1 million users and controls them and can dictate how and where they can shop via the browser plug-in, one might assume any vendor might come rushing to him to have him direct his customer base to their store(s).

The farcical state of the matter is how exceedingly contra to crypto currency it all is.

KC6TTR

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 259

Quote from: elrugrim on November 25, 2014, 11:43:22 PM

Scott-

Question for you, and if you can't legally answer it, that I guess is understandible, because it is of a legal nature.

I know your saying that those who Endorse a Ponzi and make their ROI while being aware of it's nature as said ponzi would also be liable legally. But truth be told, isn't it anyone who is involved? Not for legal purposes of liability, but in terms of restitution, I.E. Some people who didn't know Madoff was a scam did get in and out and came out ahead, but the amount they came out ahead was still subject to seizure to cover the losses of later investors, I thought.

Thus then, if that situation comes to pass, are you going to hold any btc you profited from your divesture of GAW items for such a situation?

Not a criticism, just curious because this is definately one of the most interesting threads with some far reaching implications, if you ignore all the pointless posts.

It all comes down to verifiable intent and the time frame of the association. Regardless, the prosecuting authority has the final say on who they hold liable and for what. I agree with much of what your saying. If/when I testify in court, I am already prepared to show with verifiable backup how much I had invested with GAW and how much I sold it all for. It is no secrete who I sold the bulk of everything to and I contend I only realized approx. a 73% ROI, which is fine as my focus was to get out and NOT be a party to what I considered at that stage to be a scheme well in the making.

Smart and honest business is much more valuable to me than pocketing a few dozen BTC.

Scott-

numanoid

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Quote from: maildir on November 26, 2014, 12:06:57 AM

Yes but it costs money which no doubt you will have to pay. I cannot see it being seamless and beneficial to the buyer, unless as I mentioned there is a discount built in. Otherwise you will pay GAW a transaction fee to use their coin on any website that sells something. While appears to be nothing more than monopoly money there are costs involved and someone has to pay them.

Good point. We'll have to see. I bet the whitepaper doesn't cover this scenario. The transaction fees section in the whitepaper are pretty straightforward, but we have to assume that is a native paycoin transaction.

numanoid

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Quote from: maildir on November 25, 2014, 11:52:54 PM

How very odd, he wishes to maintain the illusion that Amazon, Walmart and Target will accept his coin directly, while at the same time explaining that they will be using a browser plug-in to make it appear as though any vendor website accepts their coin.

Why would he wish to continue this particular ruse when he has now revealed how it will all work?

100% agree with this. He may, however, have some direct merchants lined up. That is his primary goal here. With the fiat reserve he expects a non-volatile price and that will attract merchants. Had Amazon gone all in with BTC 6 months ago and HELD those BTC, their profits on all sales in that time frame would have been dropped to nearly 50%. How can any company that answers to shareholders do that?

It's a fundamental problem with cryptos that can be manipulated as easily as bitcoin when volume is low.

maildir

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Quote from: numanoid on November 26, 2014, 12:02:35 AM

Quote from: maildir on November 25, 2014, 11:42:00 PM

Quote from: numanoid on November 25, 2014, 11:30:32 PM

Quote from: maildir on November 25, 2014, 11:21:38 PM

You misunderstand the purpose of the plug in. The plug in makes it appear when you browse say Amazon.com, that the prices are in BTC or Paycoin. click buy whatever product it, converts it on the fly, pays out to Amazon.com in dollars and debits your BTC or Paycoin account. As you indicate. No real point to it other than to make it appear as so. IF and let us see them grab this idea as I propose it, if as a collective there is a discount in bulk buying or buyers brought forward by paybase, it could make sense that you use this illusion. Otherwise you would be better off buying from Amazon directly with dollars. It is all an unnecessary step simply to make it all appear as though you are using a crypto currency to buy anything from anywhere. Someone somewhere has to take a piece of the pie to convert the crypto currency and pay out on the back end in dollars.

How is this different than either a native payment in BTC (uses an API to determine BTC value from fiat) or coinbase where you cash out and then purchase?

If said plugin works on major retailers, what is the downside of using it as opposed to fiat? How does it differ from BTC?

It isn't. It is a front-end illusion. Right now a merchant must accept and work with a conversion company such as bitpay. There they assume the risky nature of accepting BTC that is the price fluctuation. How it may be that the Dell's and Overstocks indeed keep the received BTC and do not need to convert it immediately, in fact as like some innovative companies are doing, they pay their employees in BTC if they employee is so inclined. Here with this particular plug in any website any merchant any vendor's site you browse, makes it appear as though they accept BTC (when they do not). Picture it this way, you stand here, Josh stands there, Amzon.com is behind Josh. You tell Josh you want that radio for sale on Amazon.com, you had him the BTC, he sticks it in his left pocket as he takes out USD from his right pocket and pays Amazon.com.

I'm with you and understand what you're saying, but don't see the downside other than the "convert to fiat" thing.

I agree that it would be best to spend crypto and the company keeps said crypto and not selling to fiat. However consumer that have a seamless transaction to major retailers trumps the philosophies of BTC in this case. If the coin can take the sell pressure from selling (which it is designed to do with the fiat reserve) then this should help bring in new people to cryptos.

I don't see a downside here other than some philosophical crypto argument. Even though it is a Fiat transaction in the end, it provides user anonymity (assumed) via the paycoin wallet, right? It allows a direct conversion from crypto to goods without a manual fiat transaction. That's a win in my book.

Yes but it costs money which no doubt you will have to pay. I cannot see it being seamless and beneficial to the buyer, unless as I mentioned there is a discount built in. Otherwise you will pay GAW a transaction fee to use their coin on any website that sells something. While appears to be nothing more than monopoly money there are costs involved and someone has to pay them.

maildir

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Quote from: maildir on November 26, 2014, 12:01:17 AM

I wonder how much longer Paypal will allow then to continue to ride on their coat-tails before their legal team contests their name? Funny really what is good for the goose is good for the gander as protective as he is of anything related to his name, so should Paypal be. It should take long I suspect.

hmmm... maybe that is the intent. cheapest free monsterious advertising he could ever dream of, and funnily enough he has the original hashcoin all in place to fall back on.

Topic: GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :) - page 2392. (Read 3377790 times)