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Topic: GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer - page 12. (Read 262354 times)

sr. member
Activity: 251
Merit: 257
October 16, 2017, 06:39:45 PM
GBTC exists for only one reason: to provide an investment vehicle for exposure to Bitcoin.

Thus, Grayscale's fiduciary duty requires they preserve and maximize their investors' exposure to Bitcoin.

Grayscale should have sold their Trust's Bcash as soon as possible and returned the profit to investors in the form of Bitcoin (like a dividend reinvestment).

A single unit of GBTC represents <0.1BTC and that number inexorably dwindles as management fees are collected.

Bcash offerd GBTC an opportunity to restore all accumulated management fees plus a healthy bonus, meaning 1 unit of GBTC could have been worth >0.1BTC.

I was shocked to discover Barry Silbert instead chose to use his investors' money to play political games and sacrificed the free airdrop money for the sake of his notably unprofessional personal crusade against Core and their socioeconomic majority of users.

I'm 99% sure that's a regulatory violation if not also criminal embezzlement; I never gave Barry permission to use my share of GBTC's Bcash to create an entirely new Bcash Trust.

Going by the Wiki definition of embezzlement, Barry is going to fry for pulling this stunt.

That's a really far reach. As far as the trust is concerned, Bcash =/= Bitcoin, and legally it certainly can't be declared a dividend (I'd be very curious to see a coherent argument to the contrary), so that logic is moot. I can't find any justification to expect any obligations regarding Bcash. It may function as a dividend to BTC holders in practice, but that doesn't confer legal obligations on GBTC.

There could be thousands of hard forks; is GBTC expected to split the trust's coins for every one of them? Even before we consider lack of replay protection in some forks, there are risks involved in doing so. What if actual Bitcoin were lost in trying to recover these shit tokens?! Where do creditors' best interests really lie, then? Especially when there is nothing in the terms about custodial responsibility for altcoins?

Further, it's absurd to expect the trustee to sell at a particular price. What if Bcash rose to 0.5BTC/coin? Then people like you would be making the opposite complaint...
legendary
Activity: 1762
Merit: 1011
legendary
Activity: 1762
Merit: 1011
October 16, 2017, 02:31:35 PM
GBTC is still trading sideways versus BTC for the last month or so. Very interesting.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 278
Bitcoin :open immutable decentralized global fair
October 15, 2017, 11:53:13 PM
Uh, yah....seems like many here are already privy to DCG's game.

Bad Actors:
DCG = DIGITAL CURRENCY GROUP (Barry Silbert, Jeff Garzik, coinbase, bitpay, etc) supports FUD & have/will try to infiltrate & eventually shutdown bitcoin.
r/btc reddit thread and (the other) company-controlled bitcoin website (bitcoin.com) also spread FUD but then try to accuse others of spreading FUD, LOL? Why do they push hard on altcoins (bitcoin cash, ethereum, FUD?)  Why do they push for forks?

Forks creating scamchains are a courtesy brought to you by DCG group of companies led by Barry Silbert with his fellow minion Jeff Garzik and friend Roger Ver. Central banks love to fund their seeders who in turn fund DCG operations so they can get inside the community to circumvent Bitcoin's progress and try to destroy bitcoin.

Luckily their attempts have been marked by continuous grand failed altcoins...
"Bitcoin Classic" failure
"Bitcoin XT" failure
"Bitcoin Unlimited" failure
"Bitcoin Cash" failure
coming soon..."Bitcoin Segwit2x" (BTC1) failure
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
October 15, 2017, 11:20:31 PM
^^^ sounds like GBTC has become Barry's little toy fund to pull political shennaigan's, did I read that right? Maybe we could hook him up with cypherdoc and the other earlier days miscreants to complete the circle?
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
October 14, 2017, 03:51:54 AM
GBTC exists for only one reason: to provide an investment vehicle for exposure to Bitcoin.

Thus, Grayscale's fiduciary duty requires they preserve and maximize their investors' exposure to Bitcoin.

Grayscale should have sold their Trust's Bcash as soon as possible and returned the profit to investors in the form of Bitcoin (like a dividend reinvestment).

A single unit of GBTC represents <0.1BTC and that number inexorably dwindles as management fees are collected.

Bcash offerd GBTC an opportunity to restore all accumulated management fees plus a healthy bonus, meaning 1 unit of GBTC could have been worth >0.1BTC.

I was shocked to discover Barry Silbert instead chose to use his investors' money to play political games and sacrificed the free airdrop money for the sake of his notably unprofessional personal crusade against Core and their socioeconomic majority of users.

I'm 99% sure that's a regulatory violation if not also criminal embezzlement; I never gave Barry permission to use my share of GBTC's Bcash to create an entirely new Bcash Trust.

Going by the Wiki definition of embezzlement, Barry is going to fry for pulling this stunt.

Embezzlement is the act of withholding assets for the purpose of conversion (theft) of such assets, by one or more persons to whom the assets were entrusted, either to be held or to be used for specific purposes.[1] Embezzlement is a type of financial fraud, e.g. a lawyer might embezzle funds from the trust accounts of their clients; a financial advisor might embezzle the funds of investors; and a husband or a wife might embezzle funds from a bank account jointly held with the spouse.

Imagine some whale had 1000BTC worth of GBTC and thanks to Barry's scheming malfeasance lost the chance to gain 100BTC from his free, airdropped Bcash.

In what universe does that whale not call up his legal dept. and release the hounds?

The second paragraph is especially damning of Barry's notably perfidious intrigues in support of controversial hard forks:

Directors of corporations, in fulfilling their managerial responsibilities, are charged with certain fiduciary duties.  The primary duties are the duty of care and the duty of loyalty.

    Duty of Care: This duty requires that directors inform themselves “prior to making a business decision, of all material information reasonably available to them.”  Whether the directors were informed of all material information depends on the quality of the information, the advice available, and whether the directors had “sufficient opportunity to acquire knowledge concerning the problem before action.”  Moreover, a director may not simply accept the information presented.  Rather, the director must assess the information with a “critical eye,” so as to protect the interests of the corporations and its stockholders.
    
    Duty of Loyalty: As the Delaware Supreme Court explained in Guth v. Loft, 5 A.2d 503, 510 (Del. 1939): “Corporate officers and directors are not permitted to use their position of trust and confidence to further their private interests. . . . A public policy, existing through the years, and derived from a profound knowledge of human characteristics and motives, has established a rule that demands of a corporate officer or director, peremptorily and inexorably, the most scrupulous observance of his duty, not only affirmatively to protect the interests of the corporation committed to his charge, but to refrain from doing anything that would work injury to the corporation, or to deprive it of profit or advantage which his skill and ability might properly bring to it, or to enable it to make in the reasonable and lawful exercise of its power.”

IIRC, Grayscale initially announced they were doing the obviously right thing (liquidate Bcash ASAP, then return Bitcoin to Bitcoin Investment Trust investors).

But then Barry saw another way to profit from his DCG's war on Core, and we've all noted how much that guy loves marketing toxic assets like Bcash. Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1762
Merit: 1011
October 13, 2017, 03:22:04 PM
The Bitcoin Investment Trust looks like they're going to have shareholders vote in less than two weeks to amend the trust to do some relevant things: https://grayscale.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/BIT-Consent-Request-October-17-FINAL.pdf

The meeting date is October 24, 2017.

Too much legalize wording for me. Is there any reason we should vote against this?

I don't know if there is any reason to vote against it, but one argument for it is that I'm understanding it to mean that it opens up the possibility for them to send out distributions based on the BCH fork.
sr. member
Activity: 1181
Merit: 259
October 13, 2017, 07:16:08 AM
The Bitcoin Investment Trust looks like they're going to have shareholders vote in less than two weeks to amend the trust to do some relevant things: https://grayscale.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/BIT-Consent-Request-October-17-FINAL.pdf

The meeting date is October 24, 2017.

Too much legalize wording for me. Is there any reason we should vote against this?
legendary
Activity: 1762
Merit: 1011
October 12, 2017, 05:41:47 PM
The Bitcoin Investment Trust looks like they're going to have shareholders vote in less than two weeks to amend the trust to do some relevant things: https://grayscale.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/BIT-Consent-Request-October-17-FINAL.pdf

The meeting date is October 24, 2017.
legendary
Activity: 1762
Merit: 1011
legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1018
sr. member
Activity: 289
Merit: 252
bagholder since 2013
legendary
Activity: 1762
Merit: 1011
October 09, 2017, 03:54:51 PM
Are you saying that the BTC that's backing up the GBTC shares is *not* actually there? That's quite a claim.

Nope. I'm saying people buying GBTC shares are buying GBTC shares, not Bitcoin.

The price might be partially derived from their Bitcoin holdings, but a big chunk of it is coming from its own peculiar demands because of its nature.

As its customers are not buying BTC then they have nothing to do with BCH either.

I am pretty sure I read that GBTC will be distributing the BCH value to GBTC holders, that were holding at the time of the split, at some point in the future.


Yep: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/grayscale-investments-llc-statement-regarding-203000163.html
sr. member
Activity: 1181
Merit: 259
October 09, 2017, 03:45:32 PM
Are you saying that the BTC that's backing up the GBTC shares is *not* actually there? That's quite a claim.

Nope. I'm saying people buying GBTC shares are buying GBTC shares, not Bitcoin.

The price might be partially derived from their Bitcoin holdings, but a big chunk of it is coming from its own peculiar demands because of its nature.

As its customers are not buying BTC then they have nothing to do with BCH either.

I am pretty sure I read that GBTC will be distributing the BCH value to GBTC holders, that were holding at the time of the split, at some point in the future.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 3015
Welt Am Draht
October 09, 2017, 02:30:05 PM
Are you saying that the BTC that's backing up the GBTC shares is *not* actually there? That's quite a claim.

Nope. I'm saying people buying GBTC shares are buying GBTC shares, not Bitcoin.

The price might be partially derived from their Bitcoin holdings, but a big chunk of it is coming from its own peculiar demands because of its nature.

As its customers are not buying BTC then they have nothing to do with BCH either.
legendary
Activity: 1762
Merit: 1011
October 09, 2017, 02:18:10 PM
I don't really get why they're mentioning BCH at all.

The people who have money in GBTC do not have money in Bitcoin therefore they have no BCH either. It's Grayscale's toy to do whatever they want with. GBTC holders are nobodies when it comes to this.

Are you saying that the BTC that's backing up the GBTC shares is *not* actually there? That's quite a claim.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 3015
Welt Am Draht
October 09, 2017, 01:11:48 PM
I don't really get why they're mentioning BCH at all.

The people who have money in GBTC do not have money in Bitcoin therefore they have no BCH either. It's Grayscale's toy to do whatever they want with. GBTC holders are nobodies when it comes to this.
legendary
Activity: 1762
Merit: 1011
October 09, 2017, 01:04:33 PM
Now that they've withdrawn the ETF application, can we get some news on when and how we will receive our BCH distributions? Tongue

What I signed up for = Exposure to price of Bitcoin

What I'm getting = Exposure to Bcash and Silbert2X


Maybe. I thought the BCH exposure in GBTC was only for those who held it *before* the fork, but right now, at least, GBTC *is* moving sideways while BTC is going up. I forget when that happened last.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
October 05, 2017, 09:43:33 AM
Now that they've withdrawn the ETF application, can we get some news on when and how we will receive our BCH distributions? Tongue

What I signed up for = Exposure to price of Bitcoin

What I'm getting = Exposure to Bcash and Silbert2X

Angry
legendary
Activity: 1762
Merit: 1011
October 04, 2017, 07:08:48 AM
Now that they've withdrawn the ETF application, can we get some news on when and how we will receive our BCH distributions? Tongue
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